Post by: iGuy on October 26, 2009, 07:30:43 PM
Mac Mini Specs: 1.42GHz G4 with 1GB DDR SDRAM. Also, he says it reads DVD's.
I found what seems to be a good deal at Small Dog Electronics, http://www.smalldog.com/product/73153.
Another thing, my sister is in the same boat with her eMac G4 with system 10.3.9. It has a 1 GHz G4 processor with 768 ram. It also reads DVD's.
Will Leopard run well on these computers? Anyone out there using similar setups?
Ryan
Post by: Paddy on October 26, 2009, 08:01:54 PM
The eMac will work too - but I'd strongly suggest more RAM if possible. While the minimum is officially 512MB, you really want a GB at least, IMHO. One GB is the eMac's limit, BTW.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3759
Post by: jchuzi on October 26, 2009, 08:03:02 PM
It looks like you're OK for Leopard but your sister is not. She could, however, upgrade to Tiger. One place to look is at FastMac. Be sure to get a full retail, generic version (black label) and not a machine-specific version (gray label). Since she has 10.3.9 installed, she could also opt for the Upgrade version. This one requires that 10.3 be pre-installed. The downside is that, if she ever needs to reinstall Tiger, she won't be able to use Archive and Install. Instead, she'll have to wipe the drive, install 10.3 and then install 10.4.
Oops! I looked at your sister's RAM and read it, mistakenly, as processor speed. She should be able to successfully install Leopard.
Post by: iGuy on October 26, 2009, 09:03:46 PM
Post by: krissel on October 27, 2009, 01:28:28 AM
Anyway, if you are going to purchase an OS I would rather spend the money on a retail Leopard that can be used for some time to come especially since the eMac may not be long for this world. If you have Tiger on any other Mac in your family you can always go the clone route to put that OS on the eMac. Likewise with Leopard (though technically it is against Apple's ULEA).
I'm running a Leopard OS on my G4 that was cloned from an Intel MBP. Can't get any more different than that, but it works just great.
Post by: sandbox on October 27, 2009, 02:19:21 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 27 2009, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm running a Leopard OS on my G4 that was cloned from an Intel MBP. Can't get any more different than that, but it works just great.
Hum? how did you do that?
Post by: iGuy on October 27, 2009, 05:46:07 AM
And no I don't have Tiger. I am running Leopard on my 20" Intel iMac.
Post by: gunug on October 27, 2009, 08:23:47 AM
Post by: chriskleeman on October 27, 2009, 08:33:35 AM
QUOTE(sandbox @ Oct 27 2009, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 27 2009, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm running a Leopard OS on my G4 that was cloned from an Intel MBP. Can't get any more different than that, but it works just great.
Hum? how did you do that?
Hey SB,
She has a MBP running Leopard, and simply cloned via SuperDuper to an external HD and then cloned back to the G4. Mind you, her G4 is heavily modified, running a 1.5 GHZ upgraded processor, a SATA controller card and SATA drives, so it's pretty speedy. I made the same modifications to my G4, which is almost identical to her machine, but am not having similar luck... so far, I can run Leopard fine, but there seems to be a problem possibly with one of the RAM sticks I brought over from an old iMac. The machine runs fine, but I can't let it sleep or it will freeze. Haven't had time to trouble-shoot it all the way yet. But, like Kris, I am able run Leopard at an acceptable speed on the G4 with that set-up.
So, Kris , correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I remember from what you've posted and emails from each other...
And iGuy, I would agree that you should be able run Leopard on either machine, but I also agree that maxing out your RAM is important.
Chris K
Post by: iGuy on October 27, 2009, 04:01:03 PM
Post by: iGuy on October 27, 2009, 04:33:03 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 27, 2009, 04:42:57 PM
QUOTE
Unbelievable!
Maybe not. Snow Leopard has been out for several weeks now. Many who had been holding off going to Leopard probably saw the "hand writing on the wall" and decided they had better make the just. I doubt if Apple made any discs since maybe Apr/May, so the 'pipeline' would have been pretty dry. Your best bet will probably eBay/other vendors/Craig's List, in that order. The same warning applies, of course, make absolutely sure the disk is a (black) Retail version not an upgrade one (grey).<This site is local> and appears to have it still, the bonus is a DVD with all the Leopard updates on it. That DVD also has tons of shareware on it. We pay ten bucks at our MUG meetings, I think it is worth it, especially if you have to start from scratch again. You can certainly email but their phone # is toll free.
Post by: iGuy on October 27, 2009, 07:49:20 PM
Anyway, if you were here I would give you a hug. Well, a hand shake anyway. I clicked your link and was able to purchase online. Very good deal at $139 plus Super Sink DVD, and shipping added into cost of item. Small Dog was selling Leopard alone for $129 plus shipping, which was also a good deal considering what they will be going for on ebay.
I can always count on TS.
Thanks!
Post by: krissel on October 27, 2009, 11:23:51 PM
That site really has a lot of old software. SB, Chris pretty well described what I did. Using SuperDuper made cloning the MBP Leopard a breeze to the external and then to the G4. I haven't encountered anything that would indicate the Intel install was not able to run just fine on a PPC. All the updates since have been flawless.
Chris, do you still have the original video card in the DA? If so, that may be why you have the sleep problem. I put a Radeon 8500 in my DA. The only time I have any difficulties with sleep is when I forget to unmount my swim MP3 player or one of my flash drives from the 7 port hub I use with the DA. No problems with other externals.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 28, 2009, 10:41:28 AM
QUOTE
That site really has a lot of old software.
That's because their business is refurbing/restoring older Macs. They don't even have any to sell that will run Snow Leopard! 
It is amazing the number of people/companies still running even Apple ][ machines to do tasks. Obviously getting harder to find but there are thousands more using PPC Macs. It's a Mom & Pop outfit and are usually extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Plus, they often donate items for our MUG meeting door prizes! 
Post by: chriskleeman on October 28, 2009, 11:15:33 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 28 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chris, do you still have the original video card in the DA? If so, that may be why you have the sleep problem. I put a Radeon 8500 in my DA. The only time I have any difficulties with sleep is when I forget to unmount my swim MP3 player or one of my flash drives from the 7 port hub I use with the DA. No problems with other externals.
Hi Kris,
Not to hijack the thread a little, but yes, I still have the original video card in there. I'm also booted from 10..4.11 when this has been happening. I haven't had the time to fool around with cloning my MBP to the SATA drive yet, although there is a partition waiting for it. I haven't seen any more kernal panics after I re-seated the memory, but when awakening from sleep, all I get is a frozen machine with the dreaded spinning beach-ball. So, when using the DA, until I can get some time to trouble-shoot it better, I've just been booting up and shutting down.
I did confirm that the machine will run on Leopard from the external hard drive, but it was fairly sluggish compared to Tiger. That's when I got the Firmtek SATA card and a SATA drive from OWC. I do vaguely remember you posting about needing to have more video RAM to run Leopard?
Looks like I can pick up a Radeon 8500 for somewhere around $50-$70 on eBay. I really don't want to put too much more into this machine, but I guess if I want it to run right, I'll need to spring for the video card.
CK
Post by: iGuy on October 28, 2009, 08:31:44 PM
Post by: iGuy on October 28, 2009, 09:16:10 PM
Leopard 10.5.4
Post by: Paddy on October 28, 2009, 10:48:12 PM
If not, it would appear when you search on "MAC OS X 10.5.4" that the cheapest Buy it Now item is $149 at the moment. Searching on Mac OS 10.5 yields similar results.
Every retailer seems to be out of it - or is charging an arm and a leg.
Post by: krissel on October 29, 2009, 01:15:44 AM
QUOTE(chriskleeman @ Oct 28 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[ That's when I got the Firmtek SATA card and a SATA drive from OWC. I do vaguely remember you posting about needing to have more video RAM to run Leopard?
Looks like I can pick up a Radeon 8500 for somewhere around $50-$70 on eBay. I really don't want to put too much more into this machine, but I guess if I want it to run right, I'll need to spring for the video card.
CK
Looks like I can pick up a Radeon 8500 for somewhere around $50-$70 on eBay. I really don't want to put too much more into this machine, but I guess if I want it to run right, I'll need to spring for the video card.
CK
Hijacking...
I do think the extra video RAM helps with the response time. I also saw a major difference when changing from the ATA drive to SATA and the Maxtor enterprise level HD I have is also faster than the Seagate SATA. All those things add up to a noticeable speed improvement.
Your sleep problem could also be caused by the SATA card. I read about some of the cards having sleep issues with G4s depending on their firmware version. What is the firmware version on your card? I have 5.13 which is an older firmware and may be what you need. Here is an interesting discussion about a guy who had sleep issues and solved them by downgrading the firmware (scroll way down the page):
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/913...?taxonomyId=163
With more digging I found this at the Sonnet site:
QUOTE
What version of the firmware do I need for a Tempo SATA card installed in a Power Mac G4? My computer doesn't seem to work properly. May-12-09
The Sonnet Tempo SATA card is made for us by Firmtek. The company provides the latest firmware on the card which is v5.31. Some customers have experienced problems with this version of the firmware in older G4 machines. Firmtek has reposted an earlier version of the firmware and encourages users experiencing problems to downgrade the firmware to the earlier 5.13 version found at:
http://www.firmtek.com/download/SeriTek1S2_513.zip
The Sonnet Tempo SATA card is made for us by Firmtek. The company provides the latest firmware on the card which is v5.31. Some customers have experienced problems with this version of the firmware in older G4 machines. Firmtek has reposted an earlier version of the firmware and encourages users experiencing problems to downgrade the firmware to the earlier 5.13 version found at:
http://www.firmtek.com/download/SeriTek1S2_513.zip
Also of note:
QUOTE
Why can't I install Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) on a drive attached to the Tempo SATA card? May-12-09
The Tempo SATA is bootable with Mac OS X. For some users the drive does not show up when the\u160 Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) DVD is inserted. This is a bug in the Leopard installer program.
In this case, using SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the current boot drive to the\u160 hard drive on the Tempo SATA allows the drive to be seen by the Mac OS X installer.
The Tempo SATA is bootable with Mac OS X. For some users the drive does not show up when the\u160 Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) DVD is inserted. This is a bug in the Leopard installer program.
In this case, using SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner to clone the current boot drive to the\u160 hard drive on the Tempo SATA allows the drive to be seen by the Mac OS X installer.
Post by: iGuy on October 29, 2009, 05:49:31 AM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 29, 2009, 05:13:37 PM
QUOTE
Headgap store just sent me an email. They had to refund my money, they were sold out.
I should have called them first! Sorry.OK, I did call Bob just now. He's just as unhappy about not having 10.5 as most others are. But they do have 10.4.x and the Kitchen Sink DVD has all the upgrades to 10.4.11 on it. I didn't actually see a link to it on their site but he said it selling for $137. That might be without the DVD, but he said the installer and the DVD would be in one box. I'm assuming there is still a shipping fee on top of that, also. Your call, but I know this guy (and his wife and daughter) and I'd vouch for their honesty.
But I did have a good experience on eBay, once, also. So, they aren't all bad.
Post by: iGuy on October 29, 2009, 05:42:18 PM
I will let you know how this works out. I should receive it late next week.
Post by: chriskleeman on December 11, 2009, 11:52:20 AM
Were you finally successful in your quest for Leopard? Inquiring TS'ers would like to know!
And hijacking...
Kris, that was the way to go with the reverse Firmware update. Humming along nicely, no more Kernel Panics, no more freezes waking from sleep. Now I'm gonna bring Leopard over and see how it roars. Still using the GeForce MX2 video card, which does have 32 MB VRAM, so we'll see how that fares. Working nicely with Tiger.
CK
Post by: krissel on December 11, 2009, 10:37:21 PM
Let us know how Leopard runs.