Post by: MrsLop on August 28, 2006, 12:07:58 PM
Hello Everyone,I have been away for a long time due to more tumors and subsequent removals. iCab is working only because I had to turn off Virtual Memory or it will return type 1, or more frequently, type 2 errors. I am not sure which is worse, my memory or my Mac's.
Anyway, I have had many months of strange behavior occurring with my Mac and so I finally did a clean reinstall. This created many more problems with third party extensions being added and crashes during the actual reinstall.
I decided to do another clean reinstall.
Problem 1-However, I don't know where the clean reinstall option is with Mac OS 8.6 Update.
Problem 2- Does anyone know if I can open up the Power Macintosh 4400/200 and replace the battery myself?
I read the 5th Edition of Mac Secrets which included GURU, I could not find out if I could do it myself. I did find the battery information:
PRAM Battery: 4.5V alkaline (Rayovac 840)
Problem 3- What are the probable causes of Memory problems on my Mac *(specs given below)
Am I right in assuming that if I have tried everything else that it could be that the battery is causing anomalies to my Mac?
I have had many type 1 and type 2 and type 41 (Finder) and a few type 10 errors since doing the reinstalls.
If my install was not a clean reinstall of the 8.6 Update, could this be what is still causing the problems?
*PowerPC 603ev running at 200 MHz
Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)Driver version: 3.1.3f1
Mac OS Partitions 1
Vendor: WDC
Revision number: 21.10N21
Product ID: AC34300L
Serial number: WD-WT4733108814
Unformatted size: 4GB
CD-ROM drive
Vendor: MATSHITA
Product ID: CD-ROM CR-583
Ethernet card
Card type: Not available
Card model: Not available
Card revision: 37
Card vendor ID: 11AD
If anyone has any answers to my problems, I would be most appreciative of any replies.
Thanks and God Bless,
MrsLop
Post by: george on August 28, 2006, 02:00:20 PM
sorry that I cannot supply the answer to your problem but let me be the first to wish you a very warm welcome back on the TS board.
I for one have missed you and hope that you will enjoy better health in the future.
George
Post by: MrsLop on August 28, 2006, 02:33:11 PM
Hallo george,It has been quite a challenge, very tiring doing all this Mac related installation and such, but I am happy to be back on the board and posting.
Frankly, I wasn't sure of the reception I would receive after being away so long.
Thank you for your continued support and good wishes. I need a lot of prayers.
God Bless,
MrsLop (Myrna)
Post by: Gregg on August 28, 2006, 10:26:30 PM
Post by: DaveF on August 28, 2006, 11:22:24 PM
http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/4400.shtml
"The 4400 was Apple's only computer designed around a modified Tanzania motherboard. The 4400 and other Tanzania-based clones will not boot with a dead PRAM battery. Try replacing the battery before attempting to replace the power supply on a "dead" 4400."
http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/06/0515.html
"On the other hand, if you have a slower PowerPC Mac, I think OS 9.2.2 is still your optimum operating system choice - although in the case of 601 and 603 PowerPC Macs up to, say, 166 MHz, you're probably better off running Mac OS 8.6 or even OS 8.1."
From the first quote, your PRAM battery is not dead if the computer boots. More knowledgeable folks can advise on the general wisdom of replacing the PRAM battery.
From the second quote, a 603 machine is "probably better running Mac OS 8.6 or even OS 8.1". I do not have 8.6, but if you do not have a full install CD, I still have full 8.0 and 8.1 versions that I'll send to you if that would be useful. I also have a full 9.0 should you like to try that version.
Dave
Post by: MrsLop on August 30, 2006, 12:31:54 PM
I am having trouble staying online. I am not ignoring your posts.
after doing still another clean reinstall, the system began reacting wildly. It ws my fault, but the list given me of the problems after running Disk First Aid, was chilling:
Keys out of order 4,382,Test done Problems were found, but Disk First Aid could not fix them., Problem Mac OS Standard Volume Structure, Problem Overlapped extent allocation, 2.2, Problem Volume Bit Map needs minor reair 4,7, Repairing the Disk, Problem Internal files overlap - then, Disk First Aid Froze.
Well, I was not a happy camper. I decided to try to do a clean reinstall of Mac OS 8.5, as gregg suggested. I suspect that ignoring the Mac OS Set-up Assistant and Internet Assistant from the previous clean reinstall were at the root of my problems in trying to connect to the internet. I compounded the problems with trying to drag inappropriate items to the new folder.
I ran the clean reinstall, reinstalled some, but not all of my third party extensions. I then ran the update Mac OS 8.6. I had all kinds of problems this morning with errors of type 1, type 2, type 3, type 41 (Finder). I decided that I should trash the Pref's for Finder and then subsequently, Memory. restarted and rebuilt the Desktop. I continued to have some balky problems with Sherlock and with Mac OS Help. I trashed those prefs as well.
To make matters worse, I cannot seem to complete my replies to you as my iCab 2.9.9 version acts weird onTS.
God Bless,
MrsLop (myrna)
I can still read posts so if anyone ahs any solutions pPlease! Let me know what you think it is.
All in all, it's been grueling work with many 21 hour days working on this. The clock is ticking and I will never have that time back. It led me to the question, how high is the price to me, of trying to do all of this....? I need rest and lots of it! I really need to get my life back.
Post by: Mayo on August 30, 2006, 04:50:30 PM
Post by: Jack W on August 30, 2006, 06:56:05 PM
can you run OS X on a powerPC 603ev running @ 200MHz?
I think that's what Mrs. Lop said she had.
- Jack
Post by: Gregg on August 30, 2006, 09:41:27 PM
Post by: Mayo on August 31, 2006, 03:11:52 PM
QUOTE
Can you run OS X on a powerPC 603ev running @ 200MHz?
You can run 10.3 and sometimes 10.4 on 603 Macs, but not at 200MHz; 500MHz is the cut-off point for 10.3. (10.5 will drop support for G3 Macs altogether...)
The reason I suggested OS X even though she has an old Mac is because she sounds like she is getting fed-up with wasting hours fiddling with her current Mac. G3 and G4 Macs can be had used for very reasonable sums these days; it all comes down to how much do you value your time vs. what you can afford. Or there is always the Mac Mini option... How many "21 hour days" does it take to add up to a used G4 Mac even if you figure your time at the minimum wage level?
Post by: krissel on September 01, 2006, 02:23:13 AM
QUOTE
Mac OS X 10.3 (and later) does not work with a 603 or 604 CPU. (However, Mac OS X 10.2 can work with the 603 or 604, as of XPF 3.1).
HOWEVER, I would not recommend Mrs. Lop trying to install X on that old world machine. The hard drive is too small, she doesn't have enough RAM, and her video card and processor would make dealing with X very painful even if she were successful with the installation. It isn't easy installing X on these old machines and even more frustrating without the proper upgrades.
Buying a new Mac would be great if affordable to her. But in the meanwhile we can give it another try.
First of all, Mrs. Lop you need to run a repair utility on your drive. 'Keys out of order' must be fixed or you will never have a stable machine.
Try one more time booting to your install CD and running Disk first Aid. If it still says it can't fix the problem you will need something like Norton's Disk Doctor or TechToolPro or DiskWarrior. I'm sure one of us has an old copy of Norton's that can be sent to you if you can't get a hold of it.
Unless that is done, the only other alternative would be to erase the hard drive and reformat but you would lose everything on it. Do you have a backup drive to which you can copy your stuff? I don't remember.
Post by: chriskleeman on September 01, 2006, 09:26:18 AM
I have a copy of Norton Utilities I could send you. It's a bootable disk, and when I used it regularly on OS 8.6 my 9600 was pretty stable. Just send me a private message and I'll get it out to you.
I agree, do not even think about installing any version of OSX on that machine, unless you upgrade it to a G4, which, can be it's own little nightmare.
Also, here's a link to OWC for Norton Systemworks:
Other World Computing
Sorry to hear you're having these troubles, but hang in there!
Chris K
Post by: MrsLop on September 04, 2006, 04:29:19 PM
mayo:
It is not a case of being niggardly or picky or stubborn about upgrading to a new system, such as 10X, it is a matter of not having the financial wherewithal to do so. I have been unemployed for many years and no, I am not now, nor have I ever prevailed upon Social Security Disability during my ordeal with Cancer. My husband and I live entirely on his employment as a teacher at a religious private school, which does not pay him anywhere near what public school teachers make. Discretionary income? What's that? We celebrate when we can do take out at the local Chinese Food Restaurant. This year's pay increase of $ 10.00 a month added a whole $ 3.00 to our bottom line over last year. Having Cancer costs money and at times, lots of it. My husband's health plan doesn't cover much of the costs of many prescriptions in full. I am not whining or complaining, I am simply stating the facts.
We are happy with what we have. We hope to have enough to buy a modest system someday, perhaps in 2007. Right now however, I need to try to make what we have work.
kriss:
Thank you so much for answering, it's been such a long time. It is always a joy to hear from you!
I did another clean reinstall, moved my third party extensions, reinstalled the driver for my PCI driver, ran Disk First Aid and received no error messages. That said, I have a problem, whenever I quit iCab and attempt to open it again, I get a message saying that iCab can not be found. This happened with just about anything I clicked on. Subsequent retrys yield error messages, 2 or 3. TechTool freezes when I attempt to open it and then I wind up doing a hard restart.
I am not quitting iCab until I can finish doing some internet tasks that have been waiting since last week.
DaveF:
Thank you for your kind offer of choice of Mac OS disks. But read on...what I really need is.....
Does anyone know what kind of Omega Zip drive would work on this old Mac? I plan on backing up all our files prior to wiping the disk and trying to start over with a complete installation. I still have chemobrain and I write everything down. I get frustrated with eBay choices because I don't know which one to try to bid on. Does anyone have an AppleWorks 6 CD? Do you know where I can get one from a place that you have dealt with and trust? I accidently deleted my copy when I did the first reinstall. I never had the CD because Bernie had it already loaded on my system. All of my husband's work was done using AppleWork's. I will also post these question as stand alone topics on the board.
criss,
Thanks for your help, I have a Norton's but it really didn't help.
Jack,
Thank you for clarifying things to mayo.
Thank you all so much and God Bless,
Myrna aka MrsLop
Post by: Mayo on September 04, 2006, 06:38:03 PM
QUOTE
It is not a case of being niggardly or picky or stubborn about upgrading to a new system
I neither said nor implied that. I made the point about "not being flip" in order to make it clear to folks that I was making a point about the improvement in the Mac OS and not commenting about your particular situation, of which I know nothing and which I consider to be none of my business.
Post by: DaveF on September 04, 2006, 07:05:09 PM
I discovered a Zip drive model Z100Plus, an installation CD (SCSI port Mac and Parallel port for PC) and three 100MB Zip disks that I'll be happy to send to you.
I also discovered an AppleWorks version 6.2.2 that works on OS 8.1 or later and OS X. I bought it for my daughter who works for the Va Beach School System, but she ended up using MS Office. I can also send this CD to you.
Send your address via email if you can use the ZIP drive and AppleWorks CD.
Good luck getting your system under control.
Dave
Post by: krissel on September 05, 2006, 03:52:21 AM
I always impressed by what you are able to do despite your personal challenges. It certainly gives us pause when we think of complaining about mundane problems.
While you are awaiting the arrival of the zip drive, have you rebuilt your desktop? That may help with the 'application not found' messages.
Here's how to do it:
Rebuild your desktop file by restarting your computer while holding down the Option and Command keys.
Note: A dialog box will inform you that rebuilding your desktop will take a few minutes. You are no longer required to hold down the two keys.
Click OK.
------
If that doesn't help...
Could it be that you are using an old alias to open some of the programs? Try holding down the Control key while you click and hold on the icon you use to open iCab. A window should pop up and one of the choices will be "Show Original". If it is a reliable alias a window will open and show the application highlighted. I'm not absolutely sure that system 8x had this capability as I really can't remember. You could also just click once to highlight the icon and then go to File and under that should be the choice to "show original".
BTW, I have a lot of old zip disks that you are welcome to have should you need more. I had a SCSI zip drive for use with my old 6300 but it died. My 9600 and Wallstreet have built in or zip modules but I've gone on to USB and FW drives so the zips are no longer used.
Edit: I just reread this thread and see you do know how to rebuild the desktop. Oh, well.
But another thought occurred to me that you might want to give iCab extra memory. Do you know how to do that?
Steps to increase memory allocation:
1. Select application by highlighting, but be sure application is not running.
2. Go to File, Get Info
3. Scroll to the bottom of the window, to the "Size" and "Min size" boxes.
4. Increase the memory allocated for Min or Preferred to twice what it is now.
If you already know how to do this, forgive me...
Post by: MrsLop on September 05, 2006, 02:27:26 PM
Thank you TS'ers for your continued patience and help. It is comforting to know that I can come to the board and get the answers that I need to solve my Mac problems. Your patience is surpassed only by my long sufferring husband. I have to keep deleting the cache folders in both app's to keep them functioning.
krissel,I have already allocated memory to the iCab 3.0.3 and to IE 5.1.6 as well. My system is really sick. When it starts up it sounds like this is an unhealthy sound going on inside. That is why I am trying so hard to get my husband's work saved before something untoward happens to it. I forgot to retrieve the iCab Hotlist from my iCab and wound up deleting more of my husband's things. Only half of his cherished favorites remain. He publishes an online Christian Music thing for the New England area and his favorites were one method of his checking all the venues before sending it out. I seem to be going from bad to worse! I still live in hope that I may resurrect this system - at least until we can afford to buy a more current version, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime, say a prayer for me.
Blessings,
Myrna aka MrsLop
Post by: chriskleeman on September 05, 2006, 04:33:25 PM
Maybe, just maybe, your hard drive is about to give out if you're hearing weird noises?
I have a Power Computing Powerbase 200 with 8.6 installed I'll give you if you need it. I've just started it up for the first time in quite a few years, it's only a 2 gig hard drive... there is a 40X CD drive, an ethernet card, and a floppy drive. I can erase all the personal data and leave everything else installed, and you can take your pick of what's there for apps... It has a whopping 80 MB of RAM, with one slot still open for more. It compares to the Mac 6360/6400 series. Same processor, 603ev, I believe...
Small drive... I don't think these machines will take a much bigger drive than maybe 10 Gig? But it works fine, and it's yours if you need it. E-mail me, reply to this forum, or whatever, and I'll send it off to you. You can network the two machines and get the data you need transferred, especially if you took advantage of DaveF's offer of a Zip drive... by the way, the iomega driver for that is already installed in the system folder.
FYI, the Zip drive you need is a SCSI, which is more than likely what DaveF has for you.
Best,
Chris K
Post by: MrsLop on September 05, 2006, 06:49:34 PM
chris,I tried to send you a personal message via TS, but your PM Bos is either full or you don't have it activated. I don't know how to contact you.
Please click on my name and send me a Personal Message via TS with your contact information so that I may contact you about the Mac system you listed in your post.
Thanks again,
Myrna aka MrsLop
Post by: Gregg on September 05, 2006, 09:24:39 PM
Nothing more need be said.
Post by: krissel on September 06, 2006, 12:19:11 AM
With your mentioning of odd sounds on startup I'm worried that your hard drive may quit on you before you get a chance to save your husbands files.
Why don't you go to one of the online places that offers free storage and upload the most important of his files. That way if something goes wrong before you get a new computer or the zip for backup, you will not lose those files.
Here are some places you can check out:
http://www.box.net/
http://www.freewebspace.net/guide/diskstorage.shtml
I have an email account for free at Yahoo which I sometimes use as a temporary storage space for files I may need to access from other locations. You could also do the same thing with those AppleWorks files.
Post by: Howlingfrog on September 06, 2006, 07:15:47 AM
It's me, Chris K... I changed my e-mail settings yesterday and put in the wrong address, so my original registration at TS is not allowing me to reply to topics or send you a message. I will do that now. I have temporarily re-registered until that can get fixed.
Best,
Chris K
Post by: Gregg on September 06, 2006, 07:34:00 AM
to TS, Howlingfrog 
Post by: MrsLop on September 06, 2006, 09:40:57 AM
I have spent the better part of this AM attempting to print out your posts - to no avail. Subsequently, I have been sitting here handwriting those especially helpful suggestions from the posts.
I was able to access the internet only by turning off Virtual Memory, however, it is still a dicey propostion and quits with type 2 errors. When I attempted to print with my LaserWriter 320 (2MB) Memory, it quit. Oddly, my choice of Print Preview seems to have disappeared from the drop down Menu. Hmmm......
Even if I choose to print one page at a time it simply won't do it.
I can print anything like Apple System Profiler but that doesn't help me when I am on the board.
Printing problems haven't happened in a long time. I need to investigate this and try to fix it.
Blessings,
Myrna aka MrsLop
Post by: chriskleeman on September 07, 2006, 08:29:39 AM
My contact info has been restored (Thanks Krissel!!!)
So if you want or need my old Powerbase you can e-mail me or send a personal message. I e-mailed you and sent you a personal message yesterday as Howlingfrog, a temporary ID to get back in the forums until Krissel got my account back on track. I checked in today and haven't seen a reply. The Powerbase will work with the Zip drive right out of the box, so to speak.
I look forward to hearing from you! I hope all is well or at least getting better.
Best,
Chris K