Post by: Mayo on September 03, 2006, 10:42:15 PM
The first time American paid for parts and labor. The second time only the parts, with the proviso that they would not be responsible for any future warranty repairs (it says so in the warranty...)
The last time it went out a fellow from the gas company and two plumbers informed us (without us asking...) that they had all seen many American Water Heater products with the same problem. The plumbing outfit we used for both repairs is the local warranty repair center for American and they told me that they get a LOT of warranty and non-warranty repair work, and it makes no difference how old or "improved" the water heater model.
American Water Heater Company manufactures water heaters for other companies including Whirlpool that are sold at Lowes. Many people have had similar problems with Whirlpool water heaters purchased at Lowes.
Both Bradford White and A.O. Smith water heaters have been recommended by plumbers. They are generally available at plumbing supply centers. They tend to cost more money, but the A.O. Smith water heater that I replaced with the American lasted ten years before it had to be replaced... In my ignorance I thought that all water heaters are pretty much the same; I wasn't looking for the lowest price. Taking into account the repair costs and hassle we have paid a good bit more than one of the other brands cost.
So my advice is to stay away from "bargain" priced heaters at Lowes, Sears, etc. unless you like spedning the Labor Day weekend without hot water...
A final irony: the parent company of American Water Heater was purchased in 2005 by...Wait For It... A.O. Smith!
Post by: gmann on September 03, 2006, 10:51:45 PM
Post by: Mrious_be on September 04, 2006, 05:12:43 AM
Post by: () on September 04, 2006, 10:32:09 AM
That's why there are insurance plans for purchases.
Just like computers, TV's, automobiles, and most other items you buy. They have a limited warranty on parts and labor.
Wouldn’t it be nice to buy a home for 250 K and have it to last 100 years without any repairs or needed service?
REALITY CHECK! Just like material possessions, humans also have to go to the doctor for repairs and whatnot...
It’s not just American made products that are “bad”. Look at some of the Asian cars that have had recalls, sold defected, flooded cars to the American consumers.
I own a Ford Mini-Van. Love it. It works great as long as I keep up the maintenance on it.
Most people would say American cars are crap. I disagree. I have had my Ford for a few years with very little problems, but I did buy it used also.
Bottom line is, nothing last forever. It certainly would be nice to have products that would out last us humans. That’s just not the way it’s ever gonna be though.
Good luck on your next water heater…
Post by: gunug on September 04, 2006, 10:48:16 AM
Post by: gmann on September 04, 2006, 10:53:44 AM
Post by: kcourt on September 04, 2006, 11:26:40 AM
I currently own a Bradfrord White, but must admit that my previous one was Bradford White also, and it failed after three years. The current one is working very well and so I don't know what to say. Even the best sometimes fail!
Kathy
Post by: Gregg on September 04, 2006, 11:58:28 AM
Anybody have any experience with tankless water heaters? (Bosch makes them.) I just read about that today in the USA Weekend magazine from the Sunday paper.
Post by: chriskleeman on September 04, 2006, 12:08:47 PM
They're everywhere in Europe... many households swear by them. I have traveled through Ireland, England and Switzerland and many folks have used them for years... they are just now getting a small foothold in this country... In Ireland, they also have these cute little electric shower units that heat the bathwater on demand, but they run on 220 Volts...
I'm sorry to hear about your water heater, Mayo...
our hot water runs off a coil in our furnace, and we have been very lucky for about 15 years (fingers crossed!!!) May you have much better luck on the new one!Chris K
Post by: kimmer on September 04, 2006, 12:12:17 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Sep 3 2006, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a heads-up... this week we will be replacing our two year old American Water Heater (installed 8/14/04). We are actually one of the Lucky Ones: it lasted over a year before needing all its working parts replaced twice within a three month period. It then went almost six months before failing to stay lit. You gotta hand it to American made products!
I'm not sure what brand our water heater is (and I'm too lazy right now to go out to the garage and check)
... but I do know I'm not nuts about the electric water heaters, electric heater thingy in the faucets, don't let the elderly scald themselves - cuz I take a COOL shower every day and I'd dearly love to steam the bathroom -- just once. Oh sorry ... rant over.
Thanks for the heads up. I will check the brand on our water heater and it's an AWH built prior to 2005 - we'll keep a close eye on it.
QUOTE
A final irony: the parent company of American Water Heater was purchased in 2005 by...Wait For It... A.O. Smith!
Now I'm puzzled. Isn't this good news?
Post by: Mayo on September 04, 2006, 01:12:11 PM
One point I did not bring up is that even though the water heater has a six year warranty on parts and labor, the fine print in the warranty states that the company will only fix it one time. Some warranty! Imagine how you would feel if Apple would cover only one repair under their one year or extended AppleCare warranties...
If there is an extended warranty available for this brand of water heater I wasn't offered that option when I purchased it.
QUOTE
Now I'm puzzled. Isn't this good news?
Only if A. O. Smith changed the design of the American Water Heaters and did something for the owners affected by the faulty heaters. As far as I can tell, neither has happened since they purchased the parent company.
Sorry if I came across as bashing American made products, but the fact of the matter is that this is the last American made water heater; most are made in Mexico these days. One should be able to expect a major appliance with a relatively simple and long-used design to work longer than two years without having to be repaited twice and then hauled to the dump. (The problems can be traced to a change in the design made to prevent accidental fires caused by gasoline vapors collecting around the base of the water heater.)
It is no secret that appliances made in the past lasted a lot longer due to the superior quality of the parts and workmanship; that is why Gregg's water heater provided such long service. I have a well pump that my service guy estimates to be fifty years old; he has advised me to hold-off replacing it until it actually dies, because the pumps that are available now would be lucky to provide reliable service for 1/5 of the time the old one has been in service (and it gets used a LOT in the summer, with over an acre to irrigate.)
Post by: sandbox on September 04, 2006, 01:49:10 PM
I've had a kenmore 30 gallon http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...ecemldffidfmm.0
for about ten years and have recommended them or any of their water heater for many years with rarely a problem and never a service issue. Sears used to be the # 1 dealer in appliances in the world and I don't think they would want to be bundled with Lowes or Home Depot where appliances are concerned.
I've had Kenmore water heaters last 20 years or so and time and again I'm reminded just how well they're built to last.
Post by: jcarter on September 04, 2006, 01:50:30 PM
One of our problems is the acidity of our well water and the crud in it also.
My husband installed a big filter thing just after the pump, and changes it monthly, and indeed it does filter out a lot of reddish brown crud.
Also the high acidity of the water will corrode the copper pipes a lot, and we do end up making a lot of repairs.
Once the top pipe coming out of one of our corroded and leaked, we called the company, as it was still on warrantee. They wanted to replace the whole unit and we would have to pay for the tank(not the burner), so my husband replaced the pipe. It was not an easy job. Then several years down the line, we had to replace the whole thing, they would not sell us the tank without a new burner.
The new system is working well, and I think that the filtering of the crud out of the well water makes a big difference.
I suggest installing one, and dont bother with the old soldering mess, use compression fittings.
Hope this helps.
Jane
Post by: Mayo on September 04, 2006, 02:23:29 PM
Yes, yes, there are always exceptions, but the fact remains that water heaters made by American Water Heater Company have a history of poor reliability and people should be aware of this when buying a new water heater. If you are thinking of buying from Sears or any other store selling house brands it is only being prudent to ascertain the origin of the water heater before making the purchase.
Or take a chance... it's your choice.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 04, 2006, 06:52:51 PM
QUOTE
If you are thinking of buying from Sears or any other store selling house brands it is only being prudent to ascertain the origin of the water heater before making the purchase.
Or take a chance... it's your choice.
Therein lies the problem. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to easily find out who the manufacturer is? But that is often quite difficult and even when it is known, you may not be able to find out why one model is cheaper than an supposedly identical model somewhere else. While the 'volume dealer' price can be less than a 'mom & pop' store in the boonies, don't be surprised to get only what you pay for and often less. Little things like roller bearings instead of 'lots of grease' won't make much difference for a few months, but the cost difference will be noticeable, as will the warranty.Or take a chance... it's your choice.
OTOH, manufacturers are constantly being bombarded by cheaper products from competitors who may be willing to cut too many corners to get a few customers that look only at price. And they may not care that the company may be bankrupt in a few years, that may even be their way of covering too much tax in another part of their business! Guess who gets hurt by this?
If anything, Mayo brings up an activity that we all thoroughly detest - reading the fine print. Usually, the sooner it is read the better, of course.
As some my remember, we bought a new washing machine last week. The repairman suggested Whirlpool, we did our best to make our comparisons only with the exact same model numbers while avoiding unnecessary options that mainly raise the price. It helps to have a trailer capable of transporting large objects, also.
Post by: jcarter on September 04, 2006, 07:11:37 PM
It is difficult to track some of the newer products, especially when they move their manufacturing plants from USA to another country to take advantage of cheaper labor and other things.
We bought a nice Bosch dishwasher which had the wires going into the door, and thats why it failed, the wires flex constantly when the door is opened. I do think that is more of an engineering flaw than cheapening up. Or a bit of both,,,,,
Thank god my husband can fix most anything, otherwise we would have to pay for these 'flaws' to be fixed.
Jane
Post by: Jack W on September 04, 2006, 07:51:14 PM
About 5-6 years ago, I was doing the "recommended maintenance" of draining off some of the sediment thru the valve at the bottom. AND "some of the sediment" lodged in the valve, not allowing it to be shut without leaking.
So I called a plumber, who proceeded to remove the valve, and take a hefty screwdriver and ram it around thru the opening. You should have seen the crud that flushed out. And that screwdriver treatment made me very nervous since the water heater is glass lined.
But anyway, after he finished cleaning it out, he installed a new valve, and all is well ever since. BTW, I don't do the "recommended mainenance" any more.
Anyway, I like AO Smith heaters. This is the third one I've had in around 35 years of living here.
- Jack
Post by: krissel on September 05, 2006, 03:12:28 AM
Interesting commentary here from a plumber:
http://www.contractormag.com/articles/colu...fm?columnid=356
http://www.contractormag.com/articles/colu...m?columnistid=1
Post by: jcarter on September 05, 2006, 06:35:42 AM
On our new heater, my husband said that the bottom drain valve is a cheap plastic one, and would probably not stand up to being used much. One of our old ones did not shut off properly either.
That is another reason that a good quality filtering system for any well water is important. I would rather see the crud end up in the filters(even tho they can get expensive) than inside the hot water tank.
We have also heard that the tankless heaters work well, we see them in hotels and B+Bs a lot in Costa Rica and other places.
We do have an electric hot water heater in our house in Maine, but its only used 4 months a year, and my husband or brother drains it every October. But we use spring water, which is virtually crud-free.
Jane
Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 05, 2006, 07:00:47 PM
QUOTE
the hot water tank
If you have a 'hot water tank', why do you need a water heater? Seriously, all the 'crud' that is not always solid stuff in the water, it is also concentrated chemicals that are dissolved in the water, chemical reactions from different metals inside the tank and chemicals that dissipate as the water is heated. Filtering is probably a must with well water, shouldn't be needed on a utility supply line. Hard water may also require a water softener to extract some of the KH.
Tankless systems are great for small amounts and fast supply; showers and hand basins. I'm not sure they would be very economical compared to a well-insulated tank system. Main reason I think they are popular in Europe/GB is the lack of space and older plumbing found in older construction. We've decided to not replace an under sink, "instant" hot water supply in the kitchen. The third unit started leaking in less than 8 years. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, what kind of fool am I? Should we sell the house, we'll replace it then!
Post by: jcarter on September 05, 2006, 07:57:04 PM
But when a tankless heater is used, the water is heated by electricity going thru coils in close contact with them, thus there is no storage. They can also be called "on demand" heaters.
Im not good at the terminology here, I just know how the doggone things work and really good at knowing how they fail. And how they manage to do so when you just need that hot shower!
As to the iron, magnesium, and other sediment that gets into well water,,,,,some can be filtered out. The acidity of the water also can determine how much of this, and other compounds and chemicals are dissolved, and the temperature also effects this.
Corrosion is a problem around here due to these factors.
Relatively pure spring water is the best.
Jane
Post by: Gregg on September 05, 2006, 09:28:33 PM