Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 02, 2006, 08:30:13 PM
So, here's the way I suppose I'll connect it to the current network of my iMac, her iBook ( with and old AP card ), a networked printer and two shared inkjets and the cable modem. Let me know if this is impossible or there might be a simpler way. My iMac doesn't have an AP card, nor am I interested in getting one. She'll be getting the next new computer later next year, probably a new MacBook or maybe a MBPro, so she'll soon have an extreme card, no use getting an older Airport, even if I could find a new one.
BTW, will the RF keep the cat warm?
Post by: gunug on December 02, 2006, 08:41:49 PM
Maybe you could use one of these:
Cupwarmer/catwarmer whats the difference?
Post by: tacit on December 02, 2006, 09:40:09 PM
If you buy an AirPort and connect it to your current router, you will partition your network into two sections. The wireless computer(s) will have a 10.100 IP address, and your other computers will have 192.168 IP addresses. Because all these IP addresses are non-routeable, it can sometimes be a bit tricky to get the wireless computer talking to the wired computers (and vice versa), and can make it a bit troublesome to do things like set up port forwarding on the wireless computer if you want to use, say, iChat AV in video mode.
If you replace your current router with an 802.11g wireless router, the network will be easier to configure. Wireless and wired computers will all have 192.168 IP addresses, making communication and port forwarding much easier. And you'll have fewer gadgets and fewer cables sitting on your desk.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 03, 2006, 08:14:27 AM
I'm leaning toward the Airport because of its reputation of ease of use and 'support'. But its lack of extra ports really defies the use of 'router' to it.
And when my wife gets a new laptop, we'll be closer to 'windows' capabilities ( which may make router updating easier ).Granted, there is a small rats nest of cables behind/under/around the desk, fortunately, the cat has stopped 'investigating' them!
Post by: Paddy on December 03, 2006, 09:20:26 AM
Like Tacit says - toss your current router. But I'd buy an Airport and an ethernet HUB.
Connect the Airport to the modem, connect the ethernet hub to the Airport (adding however many ports you need - I've got a very nice little D-Link 4 port hub) and you're good to go. I have a two wired Macs and a print server running off the hub and the remaining 4 Macs are wireless. Works like a charm.
Caveat: Airport Extreme base stations are more expensive than similar 802.11g routers. However, I had two previous wireless routers (a D-Link and a Linksys) and neither were satisfactory - dropped connections left and right and one problem after another. The Airport has been FLAWLESS and worth every penny, IMHO.
Post by: chriskleeman on December 03, 2006, 02:41:01 PM
Doesn't one lose significant speed using a hub, slower with each computer connected? Or is this old technology that I'm thinking about...
and I agree, I had a Netgear, which imploded, and now I'm trying to get a Lynksis to work properly (which it won't), the old Snow Airport is still working fine, with acceptable wireless speed to the laptops.Chris K
Post by: Paddy on December 03, 2006, 06:06:51 PM
BTW - switches are now just about as cheap as hubs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_switch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_hub
This is the one I have - currently $22 after rebate at Amazon
Or even cheaper - this 5-port one for $10.99 from NewEgg
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 03, 2006, 09:45:07 PM
I may visit the Apple Store tomorrow to try to determine if the AP can be assigned a fixed IP number...
I've already accepted the fact that Apple's gear is more costly, in this case. Actually, refurbed Extremes are easily available for $145, with full warranty, but I'd rather get her the real banana!
Post by: krissel on December 04, 2006, 12:48:40 AM
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/mac911/200...witch/index.php
Apple manual:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=52002
General network info site for others who may wish to read up:
http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/index.asp
Post by: Paddy on December 04, 2006, 10:02:17 AM
Post by: tacit on December 04, 2006, 12:11:10 PM
Personally, I feel that this is expensive and unwarranted. I don't really know why people argue against 802.11g routers; I have a D-Link here in my office as I type this, a Linksys at home, and I've been using D-Link and Linksys gear for years with no problems, difficulties, or dropped signals. (Of course, performance with any wireless device does vary with the environment. Put your wireless router near any large metal object, or behind a wall which has metal in it, and you'll drop connections.)
The Linksys wireless routers are particularly nice because in addition to being cheaper than Apple wireless gear, they support DynDNS; that means you can go to DynDNS.org, get a free username and password, and create a free DynDNS URL. The Linksys router will monitor your network connection from your ISP and notify DynDNS any time its IP address changes. This allows you to access your server from anywhere else, such as from your place of work or from some other city, without memorizing your external IP address--just type in your DynDNS URL and you're there.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 04, 2006, 06:06:20 PM
QUOTE
You can use an AirPort with a switch and assign static IP addresses to your computers, though they will be 10.100 addresses instead of 192.168 addresses.
Correct, I just got through browsing through "Airport Network Designs" from the Apple manuals area and noticed that. As the cable company never sees what's connected except the 'router' I don't think it will make any difference what our Macs use for their address, as long as the 'router' knows what they are. Making them static is purely on my side of the connection and simply maintains the addresses if one of them is ever turned OFF/ON. If that ever happens ( including a Restart, AFAIK ), they will usually come up with a new/different address, that will break any alias/icon of the machine on any other computer, forcing the use of the "Go" menu. Why bother, Apple invented 'drag-n-drop' so why not use it? It sure makes it simple for my wife to put stuff on my machine! She still likes to close windows instead of quitting programs. 
And she never used Windows! DynDNS sounds very useful for people who travel a lot and need to access their other machine(s). Sounds somewhat similar to the tinyURL service?
I also talked to an Apple Genius this morning and they confirmed that you 'guys' know your stuff! Looking at an Airport in the store, I saw only one ethernet port and didn't see how it would work for the 'router' part. However, there is also a WAN ethernet port that accepts the cable from the internet cable/DSL box.
The second ethernet port is for a hub/switch/router/single computer.Thanks, again for the help, info and opinions!
BTW, even though one must make a reservation to speak with a Genius by entering ones name and email address, they apparently don't have access to email so they could actually use that address! At least not in the Germantown store and the Mac the Genius was using. She had to actually write down the URL for the manual I downloaded. ( of course, the URL I got was for Genius/Store use, but I just searched for 'Designing Airport Network' and found the manual, anyway. So much for 'cutting-edge' technology at that Apple Store! Also around 11:50 I asked when the 11:45 appointment would be. There being two other people in front of me and no one at the counter was him ( I suspect that 'he' was as confused as I was when he registered; there were two identical entries with the same name!
). Amazingly, after my enquiry, a 'Genius' appeared from behind a locked door! I shoulda asked earlier! 
Post by: Gregg on December 04, 2006, 08:52:13 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 05, 2006, 01:04:58 PM
I don't know, I'm still up in the air about it...fortunately, I have plenty of extra fuel.
Post by: Mayo on December 05, 2006, 04:42:56 PM
Using the Network icon to connect is my preference over the "Go" menu and once it is set-up it is nearly as fast as using the aliases, without cluttering-up the desktop. We aren't trying to split the atom here and I would bet that even your computer-challenged wife could master it in under three minutes.
QUOTE
I don't really know why people argue against 802.11g routers
The Apple Extreme Base Station is an 802.11g router that is also compatible with 802.11b wireless cards.
QUOTE
The Linksys wireless routers are particularly nice because in addition to being cheaper than Apple wireless gear...
Yes, Linksys routers are cheap(er) Yadda Yadda Yadda... But try using a Linksys router on a Mac LAN with Macs using Airport cards of different vintages... Good Luck! Or if you want to secure your LAN using the strongest encryption... Good Luck Again! Sometimes it is a bear to even enable WEP encryption on a Mac/Linksys LAN.
And when Apple releases an Airport upgrade that offers the latest and greatest security protocol (not an uncommon occurrence...) or other improvement via the ultra-easy Software Update, your Linksys may not like it one bit. Depending on the router model Linksys can take 6-12 months to release a new firmware upgrade, or the company may not even bother, apparently expecting Mac owners to just buy a new router. (But Hey, Linksys routers are cheaper!)
I've used Linksys and I've used Apple. I wasted far too much time trying to get a Linksys router to accept passwords. And more time locating, downloading and installing firmware that likely won't fix the problem even if it doesn't trash the router... Then there are the dropped connections, etc. And don't waste even more time contacting Linksys tech support because what you will hear after waiting 30+ minutes is "We don't support Macs!" Click.
We all know that Macs seem to be a little more expensive than PCs (although that is debatable when comparing comparably-equipped Macs and PCs) but we bite the bullet because we know from experience that Macs offer benefits worthy of the extra scratch. The same goes for the Apple base station... it may appear to be over-priced but it is optimized to work with Mac networks, it is sooo easy to set-up and It Just Works, period. So which router is really cheaper in the long run?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 05, 2006, 07:58:20 PM
QUOTE
I think that you are making this harder than it has to be. So what if Airport uses different numbers when it assigns IP addresses? Your Macs will not know the difference nor will they care... It works the same as LANs that use 198.xxx.xxx addresses.
I won't argue with that, I guess I was just surprised that it would even be necessary, I always thought that the 192.168.y.z were always local machine/computer numbers. The networked printer has 169.254.y.z. The router is 192.168.1.1 and the Cable Modem is 192.168.100.1. I guess wireless routers all have the 10.xxx.xxx.xxx series. It's been so long since I ran without a router that I don't remember what any Mac's address would be. Would seem to me that it shouldn't matter to a router, anyway. Obviously, it can address the printer which is different than the Mac's. But if the Mac's addresses need to be 10.something, that's what I'll do. Of course, that implies that they can just as easily be assigned any 10.something numbers that I want and still be recognized by the router. I am NOT stubborn! I simply want things done MY way! 
QUOTE
Using the Network icon to connect is my preference over the "Go" menu and once it is set-up it is nearly as fast as using the aliases, without cluttering-up the desktop. We aren't trying to split the atom here and I would bet that even your computer-challenged wife could master it in under three minutes.
She's much smarter than I give her credit, she just likes to make me think she needs my help! I know this is true because she never asks me things I don't know! But I'm not about to let her know that I know! 
I'm in the process of ordering the Airport ( with a $5 discount off retail! WOW! ) from SmallDog ( and turning around and contributing $10 to DWB that they will match ), but I came back to check on the switch brands/models mentioned earlier.
Thanks, again to all for the info and help!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 05, 2006, 08:14:39 PM
A search for the Article number would have been so much simpler! Of course, I'm as much to blame for not visiting your link in a timely manner and expecting the Geniuos to know more than the TS Experts! Did you realize that the NewEgg TrendNet switch is actually only 99¢ after a $10 rebate!? I may order two, in case one is DOA! And it's actually capable of faster transfers than the NetGear model ( 10/20/100/200 MPS )! Strange speeds, however. I'm sure my iMac is still only 10/100 but Judy's iBook might be 1000 capable, certainly the next Mac we buy will be, but for 99¢, who can complain!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 05, 2006, 09:28:35 PM
All to get a 99¢ switch! 
Post by: chriskleeman on December 06, 2006, 11:06:59 AM
QUOTE
Yes, Linksys routers are cheap(er) Yadda Yadda Yadda... But try using a Linksys router on a Mac LAN with Macs using Airport cards of different vintages... Good Luck! Or if you want to secure your LAN using the strongest encryption... Good Luck Again! Sometimes it is a bear to even enable WEP encryption on a Mac/Linksys LAN.
Jim, good luck. I think you will be very happy with the Airport Extreme... my phone company installed ADSLx2 recently, and the only thing that would work wirelessly out of the box with the DSL modem/router was the old reliable Snow Airport (802.11b).
Time is money, and I'm going to not fool with the Linksys much more to try coax more speed out of my wireless network... maybe some rainy crappy day when I've got nothing better to do!
At least at this point I've successfully un-bricked it... Tacit, I just wish it worked for me!
Chris K
Post by: krissel on December 07, 2006, 04:05:02 AM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Dec 5 2006, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kris, are you sure you aren't a "Genius"? That Apple link is exactly what I used to download the PDF. Which I found despite the 'real' Genious not being able to just give me the article number ...
Can't remember who made this for me? Someone from TS...
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 07, 2006, 10:19:08 AM
Post by: Mayo on December 07, 2006, 12:46:05 PM
QUOTE
My phone company installed ADSLx2 recently, and the only thing that would work wirelessly out of the box with the DSL modem/router was the old reliable Snow Airport (802.11b).
Chris brought up something that apparently few people are aware of... non-Apple wireless routers can experience problems with certain types of broadband connections. Apple base stations have a reputation among techies for being able to handle any type of broadband connection with aplomb.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 07, 2006, 07:07:25 PM
QUOTE
Apple base stations have a reputation among techies for being able to handle any type of broadband connection with aplomb.
Speaking of things from the past! I haven't seen that bomb icon in years! BTW, both the Extreme and the switch are on the way!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 12, 2006, 05:48:27 PM
My wife left me today ( although she says she'll be back late tomorrow ), so I unpacked the two boxes and proceeded to set up the new network. As suggested above, I had to give up the IP addresses I'd assigned to the Macs. I think as long as the Airport and the switch don't lose power, the addresses assigned via DHCP will be stable, we'll see. I've made new alias' for each machine to allow drag n drop file transfers ( hopefully the last time I'll need the "Go..." menu and the password challenge ).
I used WPA instead of the default WEP setting, I need to search some more to verify that is the best system to use with Airport/wireless.
The iBook works fine in the room "she who must be obeyed" will normally use, will shortly experiment with max distance in the house. Airport is near the extreme front of the house, so it may not work in the backyard. I guess the fish will need to buy a bridge?
Speed seems fine for what we'll be doing. TS, on the other hand, is having quite a few problems. But I've also seen extreme delays on pages loading from several other sites.
Post by: Paddy on December 12, 2006, 06:18:25 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 12, 2006, 06:56:47 PM
And I hope my creating my network isn't the cause of the problems I've seen here and other places this afternoon!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 13, 2006, 11:48:41 AM
Judy will be back late today and I want her to be happy with her early Christmas gift! 
Post by: chriskleeman on December 13, 2006, 01:13:12 PM
I have recently moved my Snow Airport from one side of the room above the garage to the other, effectively moving the Airport about 25' closer to the house where the laptops are used (I had forgotten about a 100' ethernet cable I had lying around...), and all those "loading delays" we used to experience on the laptops are all but gone... so, distance is definitely a factor... supposedly, though, your Airport Extreme has more range than the old ones. The signal has to pass between two or three walls before it's picked up, depending on where we are working...
Now I'm going to try to configure the machines as you are and see if it smokes
Chris K
Post by: Xairbusdriver on December 14, 2006, 10:49:48 AM
Stuff can get lonely just lying around! Judy is not feeling well, she's staying in bed this morning, that is an extreme rarity around here. So I took her iBook to her and suggested she check her email. She assumed I had already downloaded it for her. When I said "No", she brightened up and asked if I'd done what she thought! And she was amazed that she could even print from the bed! However, I fear that I may have set a bad precedent! She may now simply email or print her requests on the printer near my iMac and stay in bed forever!
What have I done?! 
I am also planning on trying maunally entered/fixed IP addresses for the two Macs and the printer. After the power outage Thursday, I fear that another will/may wipe out the alias' on our respective machines and require another trip to the 'Go..." menu. I don't understand why the router must operate only with DHCP for what is attached to it as long as those numbers are in the 10.0.1.xxx range.
And I think we'll also go back to WPA, as I understand that is more secure and Airport handles it well.