Post by: kelly on January 18, 2007, 09:49:03 PM
Post by: sandbox on January 18, 2007, 11:47:17 PM
My problem is that it's exclusive, to AT&T-BellSouth-Cingular, a network I choose not to use. A merger that I do not agree with. I disagree in principle with the arrangement made by Apple for me. If I want this product, I am forced to change cellphone providers and sign a 2 year contract with a company that is second rate (in this region) because that's the deal that Apple made.
What's next? I buy a car that will only burn Exxon fuel because that's the arrangement that GM made?
The iPhone should be on the open market and the sims card should work on every cell network. When someone makes that product I'm a customer.
Post by: krissel on January 19, 2007, 12:20:32 AM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070118/D8MNT90G1.html
Post by: sandbox on January 19, 2007, 02:49:43 AM
Post by: Gregg on January 19, 2007, 07:40:56 AM
Post by: kelly on January 19, 2007, 09:58:10 AM
Establish their own Phone Network or work with someone else.
"Previously, I tended to doubt that Apple would become a Mobile Virtual Network Operator. The reason is that as a MVNO Apple becomes a competitor and a threat in the market instead of partnering with a strong ally. Since Cingular/AT&T is Apple's partner for its own employee's cell phones, working with Cingular made sense."
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/01/16.2.shtml
I'm sure they had their reasons for choosing Cingular.
I don't use a Cell Phone and I don't care.
They will sell Millions and make Billions. I care about that.
One assumes after a few years you can get an unlocked one.
What's really exciting here to me is the new technology and Software.
No doubt this will make it to future iPods.
That will be cool.
Post by: RHPConsult on January 19, 2007, 10:55:26 AM
'Cept I have had Cingular (PacBell) phones for years, and could not get along w/o one. I'm looking forward to a easier/better phone than my old Motorola, however.
Maybe they'll have one as a door prize at the Shareholders' Annual Meeting!
When Ihnatko praises something – humorous/cynical observer that he is – I pay attention.
Dvorak, of course, has already said it will fail. Dvorak opines . . . adding to his long list, as I recall, of Mac products that failed.
Post by: sandbox on January 19, 2007, 02:28:50 PM
Well Dick, that’s the point. You have good service there using Cingular, but that’s not the case everywhere. Each provider has built their market strength in different regions of the country (world). Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile have better tower saturation here and points south, so by making the iPhone exclusive to Cingular this region will be underserved if it remains in Cingulars hands. The exclusivity of the marriage undermined the new FCC Laws on Portability in the cellphone market as well, so I would expect that this arrangement is temporary at best as Kelly has pointed out.
Now that Apple is in the market I would expect them to be adding functions to this unit. With the lack of a keypad I’m hoping the concept is forward thinking, like using voice to text technology (iListen) so that a keyboard will not be missed.
My over reaction is probably the result of a few issues, one would be my involvement in pushing for cellphone portability, having personally collected hundreds of useless phones in a recycling project I was inspired to join others for a solution to the problem. The larger issue has more to do with AT&T and their attempt to capture the internet, only giving in after they were allowed the Bell merger, and only for a 2 year grace period. (where's my gun)
AT&T’s argument to the FCC was that they would not interfere with access because it wouldn’t be good for business, that a person who found themselves with restricted access would just switch to another provider. Well, if that’s the case how does one switch to another provider if the hardware and contract is exclusive to them?
Yes, one issue is internet access and the other is iPhone, including internet access, cellphone, email, and whatever comes down the pike. By creating the exclusive iPhone market they have discounted their argument against Net Neutrality, because you just can’t find another provider under this arrangement. Now Apple, unfortunately is in the middle of this contradiction, dragging it’s supporters (unbeknownst to them) along with AT&T’s position.
Post by: tacit on January 19, 2007, 03:40:22 PM
Wether or not other cell phone companies will choose to do so is anyone's guess, and likely depends largely upon how successful the iPhone is.
Putting a different SIM chip in an iPhone isn't enough to make it work with other networks. My understanding is that Cingular had to do some fairly extensive reprogramming and retooling to make the iPhone work--they had to change the way their voicemail system works in order to provide the iPhone with a digital list of messages waiting in the voicemail box, together with running times and so on.
Post by: Mayo on January 19, 2007, 04:00:51 PM
Now don't get me wrong... I have no love for Cingular. I haven't had any problems with my phone (which is used very little) but their customer (dis)service at the local Cingular store was a nightmare when I upgraded to an LG phone after I began getting charged an extra $5/month because I was using an "old" phone. It took multiple trips to the store to get things straight and I got the impression that the folks there knew only enough to sell phones and hardly anything about Cingular's services.
It might have something to do with the fact that the store resembles your typical fast-food joint... all the workers were Generation Why? who are probably working for minimum wage with a small commission for each phone sold. And some of the workers don't even get a commission. So I can't blame them for being no more interested in providing good customer service than the workers at a Taco Bell.
Maybe one of our European correspondents will correct me, but my impression is that there is significantly more competition among carriers in Europe and there are no contracts that bind a person to a particular company, so prices and service are generally better there.
Our so-called "free market" is really not very free, as most rules in most sectors of the economy are written to benefit corporations instead of consumers. (Take a look at how western Europeans regulate industries such as drug and chemical companies and compare it to how we do it here.) We can thank the ultra business-oriented Republicans and wishy-washy Democrats for much of the problem as they are all beholden to the business interests that fund their campaigns and lobby them 24/7.
Post by: RHPConsult on January 19, 2007, 05:06:00 PM
QUOTE(tacit @ Jan 19 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]116475[/snapback]
Apple's exclusive license with Cingular is for a limited time; upon the expiration of that marketing deal, other cell phone companies will be able to offer iPhones, if they want
A financial writer has recently opined that the iPhone is a "world phone", that can/will work everywhere. In contast, to every cell phone with which I've had experience, I would add.
You wouldn't anticipate that, in particular, Mr. Jobs has his eye on Asia's billions of cell users, would you?
Post by: sandbox on January 20, 2007, 01:25:50 AM
QUOTE(RHPConsult @ Jan 19 2007, 06:06 PM) [snapback]116482[/snapback]
A financial writer has recently opined that the iPhone is a "world phone", that can/will work everywhere. In contast, to every cell phone with which I've had experience, I would add.
You wouldn't anticipate that, in particular, Mr. Jobs has his eye on Asia's billions of cell users, would you?
You wouldn't anticipate that, in particular, Mr. Jobs has his eye on Asia's billions of cell users, would you?
As I mentioned earlier,
QUOTE
The exclusivity of the marriage undermined the new FCC Laws on Portability in the cellphone market as well, so I would expect that this arrangement is temporary at best as Kelly has pointed out.
But one couldn't move to another provider until the 2 year contract was up.
I'm Sure it's a world phone (GSM) Dick, but in the US some companies work better than others depending on location. Cingular (using TDMA) has a bad reputation around here.
QUOTE
What is GSM?
GSM is the worldwide standard for wireless communication with over 680 million subscribers. Approximately 71 percent of all wireless subscribers in the world use GSM. GSM is used in 179 countries with 500 providers making it the largest wireless platform in the world.
Alltel: CDMA
AT&T: GSM and TDMA*
Cingular: GSM and TDMA*
Nextel: iDEN**
Sprint PCS: CDMA
T-Mobile: GSM
U.S. Cellular: CDMA
Verizon: CDMA
* AT&T and Cingular are building new GSM networks alongside their older TDMA technology. Consumer Reports found that the two carriers' GSM networks don't appear to provide the same coverage that TDMA customers get. If you're planning to switch to one of these carriers, choose a phone that will also work on the more extensive TDMA network.
GSM is the worldwide standard for wireless communication with over 680 million subscribers. Approximately 71 percent of all wireless subscribers in the world use GSM. GSM is used in 179 countries with 500 providers making it the largest wireless platform in the world.
Alltel: CDMA
AT&T: GSM and TDMA*
Cingular: GSM and TDMA*
Nextel: iDEN**
Sprint PCS: CDMA
T-Mobile: GSM
U.S. Cellular: CDMA
Verizon: CDMA
* AT&T and Cingular are building new GSM networks alongside their older TDMA technology. Consumer Reports found that the two carriers' GSM networks don't appear to provide the same coverage that TDMA customers get. If you're planning to switch to one of these carriers, choose a phone that will also work on the more extensive TDMA network.
from apple= Wireless
iPhone uses quad-band GSM, the global standard for wireless communications. It also supports Cingular’s EDGE network, 802.11b/g Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth 2.0 with EDR, which links to Apple’s new, remarkably compact Bluetooth headset.
--
QUOTE(tacit @ Jan 19 2007, 04:40 PM) [snapback]116475[/snapback]
Apple's exclusive license with Cingular is for a limited time; upon the expiration of that marketing deal, other cell phone companies will be able to offer iPhones, if they want
Wether or not other cell phone companies will choose to do so is anyone's guess, and likely depends largely upon how successful the iPhone is.
Putting a different SIM chip in an iPhone isn't enough to make it work with other networks. My understanding is that Cingular had to do some fairly extensive reprogramming and retooling to make the iPhone work--they had to change the way their voicemail system works in order to provide the iPhone with a digital list of messages waiting in the voicemail box, together with running times and so on.
Wether or not other cell phone companies will choose to do so is anyone's guess, and likely depends largely upon how successful the iPhone is.
Putting a different SIM chip in an iPhone isn't enough to make it work with other networks. My understanding is that Cingular had to do some fairly extensive reprogramming and retooling to make the iPhone work--they had to change the way their voicemail system works in order to provide the iPhone with a digital list of messages waiting in the voicemail box, together with running times and so on.
Not all networks are alike but Cingular, At&t and T-mobile (my provider) have GSM in common, (in a growing # of locations) and in most cases the Sims card carries the data and the provider unlocks the phone or the lock can be hacked as well.
Cell network info
AT&T Cingular is in the process of building a World Phone Network GSM, it is hardly complete and as frar as the iPhone relying on At&T-Cinguar's not ready for prime time network, I can't see the joy.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on January 20, 2007, 09:02:50 PM
As to Net Neutrality, have no fear, Mr. J. Jackson, Ms. G. Davis and Ms. J. Fonda all have our best interests at heart, I'm sure. After all, with all their technical knowledge and business experience, why shouldn't we trust them? They're not just pretty faces and political shills, right?
I'm sure the combined experience and wisdom of this group has AT&T nervously watching every corporate decision. 
Post by: sandbox on January 20, 2007, 11:06:38 PM
QUOTE
As tacit said, there's more to the iPhone than the hardware you purchase.
Really?
Down here in Hooter'sville we're still having trouble with a strings and cans. I like the Sardine can and a G-string myself. 
Cell frequency coverage
850/900/1800/1900 MHz FAQ
http://www.cellguru.net/1900.htm
Service area Maps
http://www.cellguru.net/coverage_maps.htm
the best iPhone expose’ I’ve found
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/
Post by: krissel on January 21, 2007, 11:30:33 PM
iWon't be using an iPhone anytime soon.
Post by: chriskleeman on January 21, 2007, 11:49:16 PM
Chris K
Post by: sandbox on January 22, 2007, 01:07:49 AM
Chris, I was at Killington, Hogback, Haystack, then over to Wildcat and my old homestead in N.Conway a few years back and my T-Mobile worked find as long I wasn't in a deep ravine.... looky here http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/ choose VT and see the coverage you can get. Of course if your house is pointed away from a satellite, behind a MT. you may have specific location problems, but by and large my phone had 3 Bars from Brat up through the Greens and over to the White Mt.
Canada is a Big GSM user so the closer you get to the border you may find a stronger signal.
It's a boring topic really, but if you need to have a reliable network one ought to know which one will serve them best. My cell phone use was job specific for the longest time, and the phones were supplied by the project or government and when the job was over I looked forward to giving them back. I couldn't stand being interrupted; it seemed such a waste of time.
Post by: krissel on January 22, 2007, 02:59:21 AM
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/w...-tdma-gsm.shtml
Post by: Gregg on January 22, 2007, 07:38:13 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Jan 21 2007, 11:30 PM) [snapback]116621[/snapback]
Verizon has the best coverage here (NJ). With the ability to talk free to other Verizon users, free 9PM-6AM and weekends, it's hard to leave for another network that may be iffy on coverage. Plus we have the family setup where we share minutes and additional users are only $20 a month.
iWon't be using an iPhone anytime soon.
iWon't be using an iPhone anytime soon.
See.