Post by: RNKIII on August 15, 2007, 06:46:44 PM
Apple 'seems' to have discontinued AppleWorks..
Bob K. rnkiii
Post by: Gregg on August 15, 2007, 07:31:07 PM
Post by: sunset on August 15, 2007, 07:54:52 PM
Laurel
Post by: sandbox on August 15, 2007, 11:56:54 PM
Post by: Gregg on August 16, 2007, 07:31:03 AM
QUOTE(sunset @ Aug 15 2007, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, Gregg! AppleWorks and I go way back to 5 1/4" floppies. It continues to do the basic things I need it to--in all of its modules. Only problem I have with it is when I use the Geneva font. Never have been able to figure that one out...
I use Geneva regularly. What problem?
Maybe it's that "modern" OS!
Post by: Mayo on August 16, 2007, 10:07:14 AM
Post by: bellbram on August 16, 2007, 12:11:33 PM
Can't stand Word. It always seems to know what I want to do before I do — trouble is it usually gets it wrong! Word is just too intuitive for my liking.
For serious writing, I find the combination of Write and MacJournal just the job.
Post by: Gregg on August 16, 2007, 12:17:26 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 16 2007, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a long time AW user, I'm curious whether upgrading to iWorks '08 is worth doing...
Yeah, me too! If anyone has done it, chime in.
QUOTE(bellbram @ Aug 16 2007, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can't stand Word. It always seems to know what I want to do before I do — trouble is it usually gets it wrong! Word is just too intuitive for my liking.
I totally agree with that. However, I may find myself using it anyway someday, at home as well as at work.
Post by: sandbox on August 16, 2007, 07:52:33 PM
if iWorks is fully compatible with MS it will sell, if not it's just another wannabee which the business world will ignore, which the educational world will not teach, and finally the general population will find annoying as they have in the past when Apple software doesn't rise to the level of the hype or their expectations.
Post by: kps on August 16, 2007, 08:18:40 PM
MS Word for wordprocessing
MS Excel for number crunching
Keynote for presentations
FileMaker for simple databases
OmniGraffle for charts (Visio replacement)
MS Office for a total solution (without Access or Visio)
Neo-Office if you do not need MS Office.
iWork is only worth the price because of Keynote. Pages is more of a layout app than a true wordprocessor. Neo-Office wordprocessor or AbiWord are both free and MS Word compatible and can make a great replacement for AppleWorks.
As i mentioned in another thread...AppleWorks is dead and has been dead for a while. Time to find an alternative.
Post by: Raven on August 17, 2007, 12:22:47 AM
Appleworks has been great for opening their files and it's much cheaper for basic word processing. I use icWord or icExel sometimes.
How long can I keep using AW in this regard, before it becomes unusable to communicate with Word?
Post by: krissel on August 18, 2007, 01:28:41 AM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 18, 2007, 10:55:47 AM
QUOTE
How long can I keep using AW in this regard, before it becomes unusable to communicate with Word?
I'm sure you'll know that time before I will. Since I don't depend on that capability, I never bothered to check on it. But when that time comes it might be a little late to find the solution. That's why I second KPSs recommendation to find the solution now rather than later. However, my solution(s) are probably not suitable for your needs. Mine are relatively light as I have no need for the capabilities of Word and Excel. Mariner Write and Calc are completely satisfactory ( matter of fact, Calc is only installed on my wife's iBook, i just use FileMaker to open those ugly spread sheets! 
). However, FM is capable of extremely complicated, relational databases, even if all you need is a simple one.The biggest problem is finding an app that can write MS files, since MS seems to find it too difficult to be able to read standard, cross-platform file types. And that's MSs prerogative since they are the 800 pound gorilla.
Post by: beacher on August 18, 2007, 12:01:55 PM
Post by: sandbox on August 18, 2007, 12:50:45 PM
QUOTE(beacher @ Aug 18 2007, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
AW still fulfills all of my needs. . .
But if you needed to teach someone how to play like Eric Clapton, would you hand them a banjo? Of course they may find the instrument useful in concept, it will never duplicate the sound.
Post by: kimmer on August 18, 2007, 01:31:27 PM
Fortunately, I don't need to use it either.
I tried NeoOffice (I really like open source software) ... but every few times that I launched it, it connected to a "give me money" page and that irked me -- especially since I sent in a donation way back when I downloaded the program. They are worse than a certain national charity that sends me 100 address labels every 2 months and then asks for a donation.
I do use Appleworks on rare occasions - mainly because I'm trying to set up a database for books/authors and such and I don't like the free/shareware programs that are out on the net. Too bad I can't open Norm's access database, his is quite cool and has most of the features that I want ... but I'm not gonna buy a win machine just to keep track of books.
I adored FileMaker when I had it on my computer, but my license is for a very, very old version and I don't know if it would even run on this computer. Of course I've not installed it and tried it either.
For most of my correspondence and for our budget spreadsheet, I use Mariner Write and Calc. Smooth, clean and quick to load. They aren't bloated and don't eat up a lot of memory. I have them running almost all the time I'm at my computer. I use MacJournal from this company. It helps me keep my brain in order.
I do think if I were in the business world, I'd be using MSOffice*. In fact we have a fairly recent version simply because Sneakers was doing some consulting work and he had to have it to open/create/fix docs and such. But the cd is in the closet - uninstalled on either computer these days.
*Oh, I did have to resort to MSOffice to print some business cards on Avery stock. But the templates never saved as they were supposed to and I always had to adjust them, so I used a template in Mariner Write that ABD put together for me.
His template retained it's prefs and printed well -- until Avery changed their paper stock to heavier weight and that card stock won't go through our inkjet printer - even though the box says it's for inkjet printers ... 
Okay, okay ... I'll clam up now.
Post by: Gregg on August 18, 2007, 02:16:53 PM
QUOTE(Raven @ Aug 17 2007, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I refuse to spead big bucks on that bloated MS Word.
How long can I keep using AW in this regard, before it becomes unusable to communicate with Word?
How long can I keep using AW in this regard, before it becomes unusable to communicate with Word?
Great question. I suppose the answer is when there's a major update for Word.
But, to expand on that line of thought.... Say you need to convert your AW files to Word.
What I'm talking about is the day when I'm forced to get a new Mac. So, I have all these AW files. Do I have to convert them to Word (SaveAs Word X.x) before transferring them to the new Mac? Or, will Word open an AW file and let me save it in Word?
Or do I need AW installed on the new computer to do that? Or, will iWork open the AW files and allow me to save as Word X.x? If I need AW, will the version that works in OSX be able to open the files saved in AW6 on OS9?
Maybe I need to go talk to a Geeknius at the Apple Store...
I sent some ClarisWorks files to Paddy awhile back so she could let me know about converting them to AW. (Thanks again!) Now, I'll have to send those AW files to my son so he can let me know about converting them to Word/Excel, etc.
Post by: Gregg on August 19, 2007, 02:02:59 PM
QUOTE(beacher @ Aug 18 2007, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
AW still fulfills all of my needs. . .
How'd I miss that before??
(Nevermind!)
Post by: sandbox on August 19, 2007, 02:49:43 PM
Post by: Gregg on August 20, 2007, 07:27:37 AM
QUOTE(sandbox @ Aug 19 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why, ... ?
Because it had no "i"
Post by: kps on August 20, 2007, 08:19:10 AM
QUOTE(sandbox @ Aug 19 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Moving from Appleworks was an expensive and painful learning curve that I wound not want to repeat with any software package that I have so much time and effort into. If I didn't need to exchange documents with other system daily I could have been happy just using AW in isolation, but no software could I purchase to help AW Play Nice with others consistently and dependably, so I, like many others had to leave the comforts of AW, purchase a new Office Suit, and waste our time learning how to the simplest of tasks all over again. As i said earlier, it's not the cost it's the redundancy and wasted time and energy that this failure of Apple has caused. Without a doubt our county used this failure to justify their decision in changing computer systems county wide. Hundreds of thousands of children had learned on Apple AW and now, million upon millions of wasted hours of education lost over Apple's failure to support their product. Why, because there's more money in reinventing the wheel? I'm sure there's a excuse out there somewhere.
They spun-off Claris...then they spun-off FM...then they killed Claris...then they took AW back...then they stopped development...the rest is history.
I do agree about the learning curve, but I don't think it's as extreme as you suggest. AW gives you the basics for all other applications, such as wordprocessing, spereadsheets etc. Apple is very serious about their interface and sets strict guidelines for their developers to follow. Most Mac applications are mostly transparent from a GUI perspective and work similarly. Using opensource apps like Neo Office, is much different because they do not follow Apple's guidelines, but for the most part, the learning curve is with features and not with overall usability.
Post by: Dick Miller on August 20, 2007, 09:33:04 AM
Post by: Parker on August 20, 2007, 11:40:58 AM
but what i loved about AppleWorks is that it had a database function basically identical to FileMaker Pro
(considering that's what FMP was derived off of...)
Being that i still use AppleWorks, whenever i get a new computer i just copy the A.W. application folder from one machine to the other, and it works flawlessly.
Hopefully it'll work in leopard
Post by: Parker on August 20, 2007, 12:00:13 PM
QUOTE
Anyone using AW with OS 10.4.10 ? I think 10.4.10 broke AW, at least the word processing part. If I try to type into AW word processor it crashes, but I can paste into it. I heard someone else complain about the same problem, so it's not just me.
I'll see how my copy works... haven't tried it in .10 yet
Post by: Thomas S. England on August 20, 2007, 12:00:15 PM
QUOTE(Dick Miller @ Aug 20 2007, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone using AW with OS 10.4.10 ? I think 10.4.10 broke AW, at least the word processing part. If I try to type into AW word processor it crashes, but I can paste into it. I heard someone else complain about the same problem, so it's not just me.
Yes, I'm still using AW with 10.4.10 with no ill effects. I have a 2GHZ Intel Core Duo.
I primarily use it for the database, but word processing also works. I keep thinking that I need to have a plan for the day that the database no longer works.
I designed my own database for my invoicing, so it's kind of important.
Post by: Parker on August 20, 2007, 12:12:42 PM
mine works fine.
[attachment=559:Picture_183.png]
I uploaded a copy of AppleWorks online if you want to download it (being that it's not supported and/or sold anymore)
http://www.parker.tc/appleworks6.zip (28mb zipped, ~68mb unzipped)
Post by: Mayo on August 20, 2007, 12:16:27 PM
Post by: Parker on August 20, 2007, 12:22:35 PM
Post by: sunset on August 20, 2007, 05:11:21 PM
QUOTE(Gregg @ Aug 16 2007, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(sunset @ Aug 15 2007, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree, Gregg! AppleWorks and I go way back to 5 1/4" floppies. It continues to do the basic things I need it to--in all of its modules. Only problem I have with it is when I use the Geneva font. Never have been able to figure that one out...
I use Geneva regularly. What problem?
Maybe it's that "modern" OS!
Gregg, I really apologize!! Have been following this thread but missed this post of yours some how--sorry...
To answer your question: First of all, I have Arial 12 set as my default font in the Prefs. but it never defaults to that. Geneva is always the font that's selected in the WP module--didn't test the others. When typing in Geneva, the cursor is never following the last character typed but shows up before the second to last character. That would be OK if I never made a typo
or wanted to change something or do some moving around of text or underline a phrase/section, etc.Hope that sufficiently explains it??
I've reinstall the program multiple times and trashed the .plist file but none of that works. Because I've got many templates set up, some date way back, I'm not anxious to call it quits and abandon it. In fact I've got to make some bridge tallies tonight using those.Thanks for asking, Laurel
PS: Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. [I did just DL Parker's offering but that probably won't work either because of some 'imbedded' file somewhere that's overriding my wishes...] Eeeeeeeeeeeek!!!
Post by: sandbox on August 20, 2007, 11:16:34 PM
The teachers here were taking summer classes in PC MS, word, excel and they were HOT. They had to go back to the basics with kids who had been using Apples throughout their educational experience. Both teacher and student repurchased home computers to match the hardware now upgraded in the classroom, it was in effect a disaster, and Apple with their lack of Works play a roll.
The argument here still goes on, and Apple doesn’t shine. They failed and we know it. They sold Communication packages that was suppose to be used in office environments and the schools bought them up by the thousands, only to have them not communicate with offices in a business class. I know, I bought one at a premium.
You really can’t fully appreciate the cost of such a failure unless you’re involved. It’s one thing to read about a school district swapping platforms and another to be in the middle of it.
Like Tom, I had a large custom designed database in AW, about 1GB of text, without the ability to move to Apples own Filemaker data bank program. I bought it in hope that I could and or maybe someday Apple would let us migrate from AW to Filemaker but NO. Now they create a new word processing program and do not release us from this imprisonment but again make false claims about integration. Poppycock
IMO Pinellas County would still have Apples today if they allowed AW to work and play with others.
Post by: themagpie on August 20, 2007, 11:51:59 PM
Margie
Post by: Parker on August 20, 2007, 11:54:41 PM
Post by: Gregg on August 21, 2007, 07:50:51 AM
QUOTE(sunset @ Aug 20 2007, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have Arial 12 set as my default font in the Prefs. but it never defaults to that. Geneva is always the font that's selected in the WP module--didn't test the others. When typing in Geneva, the cursor is never following the last character typed but shows up before the second to last character. That would be OK if I never made a typo or wanted to change something or do some moving around of text or underline a phrase/section, etc.
Hope that sufficiently explains it?? I've reinstalled the program multiple times and trashed the .plist file but none of that works. Because I've got many templates set up, some date way back, I'm not anxious to call it quits and abandon it.
Thanks for asking..
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
or wanted to change something or do some moving around of text or underline a phrase/section, etc.Hope that sufficiently explains it??
I've reinstalled the program multiple times and trashed the .plist file but none of that works. Because I've got many templates set up, some date way back, I'm not anxious to call it quits and abandon it. Thanks for asking..
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Is trashing the .plist file in OSX analogous to trashing preferences in OS9? If so, I don't have an easy answer, especially since you've already taken the step of reinstalling the program. I do know that I've had intractable problems that were solved with a "Clean Install" of OS9 even though such a fix remained mysterious. But, it worked!
I've never had the problems you describe, using OS9.
Post by: sunset on August 21, 2007, 11:27:59 AM
QUOTE(Gregg @ Aug 21 2007, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(sunset @ Aug 20 2007, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have Arial 12 set as my default font in the Prefs. but it never defaults to that. Geneva is always the font that's selected in the WP module--didn't test the others. When typing in Geneva, the cursor is never following the last character typed but shows up before the second to last character. That would be OK if I never made a typo or wanted to change something or do some moving around of text or underline a phrase/section, etc.
Hope that sufficiently explains it?? I've reinstalled the program multiple times and trashed the .plist file but none of that works. Because I've got many templates set up, some date way back, I'm not anxious to call it quits and abandon it.
Thanks for asking..
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
or wanted to change something or do some moving around of text or underline a phrase/section, etc.Hope that sufficiently explains it??
I've reinstalled the program multiple times and trashed the .plist file but none of that works. Because I've got many templates set up, some date way back, I'm not anxious to call it quits and abandon it. Thanks for asking..
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Is trashing the .plist file in OSX analogous to trashing preferences in OS9? If so, I don't have an easy answer, especially since you've already taken the step of reinstalling the program. I do know that I've had intractable problems that were solved with a "Clean Install" of OS9 even though such a fix remained mysterious. But, it worked!
I've never had the problems you describe, using OS9.
Thanks for your thoughts, Gregg. I really don't remember having that problem in 9 either. As a matter of fact, because I've been using X for so long, I don't have any recollection when it began.
It doesn't keep me from using the program tho'--biggest pain is that even when I set a different font for a project, it wants to default back to Geneva. Just takes a little longer to accomplish something and I have to be 'aware'...
I do feel badly for 'Sandboxes' descriptive situation--guess I've had my head in the sand for years... =( AW has always worked for me for anything that needed doing so I never needed M$. That's really too bad--shame on Apple and it sounds as tho' it was intentional???!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 21, 2007, 01:55:47 PM
Not that FM is an inexpensive 'solution', of course. FM, alone, is at least ten times the cost of AW! I suspect that somewhere in Apple, the decision was made to drop support for AW for whatever reason back when Apple was losing its toe in the education 'door'. Of course, education planing and execution takes longer to make changes than 'regular' consumers and even corporate users, so Apple now finds itself with increasing popularity but no software to supply the markets it now wants to recapture. Bad decisions have a way of living longer than you want!
Mr. Jobs tenacious rush to "fashion conscious and well-to-do" consumers leaves them little clout with organizations with tightening budgets, especially when they get burned by this kind of abandonment.If iWorks takes more than another year to create a complete alternative to AW, they will face ever greater challenges in selling computers. Especially when MS decides to shut down the Mac Unit. But the profit margins may be the guiding reasons for this lack of innovation or support. I don't think they get a 50+% profit on any computer, even those extremely expensive Mac Pro models!
Post by: kps on August 22, 2007, 07:49:09 AM
It could be that when MS and Dell went full force after the edu market, Apple chose to run rather than fight...AW became a casualty. I'm sure that what you described repeated itself in many school districts, but some no doubt fared better than others.
Did Apple let us down? Yes and No. AW was a decent suite for Mac users and education, but most Mac users outside of education needed MS Office to be compatible with the 95% of the rest of the world. Let's not kid ourselves, if MS Office for Mac didn't exist, Apple's market share would be less than Linux and companies like Adobe would have abandoned the Mac market years ago, further killing Mac use in the graphics biz. In 1995 I worked for a large multinational logistics company on a startup. I was the "transportation guy", so lots of spread sheets, memos and reports. They were standardized on Quatro Pro and WordPerfect but guess what...each of our computers had MS Office installed because they were in the process of migrating. Where is Quatro and WordPerfect today? Where is Lotus 1-2-3 for that matter? It wasn't just Apple that was up against the MS juggernaut.
If Apple abandoned the edu market, it wasn't all Apple's fault. I recall Paddy, Krissel (and others) mentioning on numerous occasions about school districts switching to PCs because of cost...and nothing but cost....and you can't get AW for Windows.
Post by: Paddy on August 22, 2007, 08:41:17 AM
My previous school district in North Andover, MA made the completely idiotic move to PCs in their central office about 9 years ago, when the equally idiotic head of technology (who was the original dinosaur - really did NOT know his cookies) decided that they had to do this because the state required that they submit reports etc. in MS Word. Apparently it never occurred to this dolt that MS made Office for Macs too. I later told some of the staff that there had been no need to switch platforms; that Office was available for Macs and they had no idea - and several of them lamented how much they missed their Macs and what a pain in the neck their PCs were. The central office was by this time paying over $10,000 per year for outside maintenance of these PCs, something they had never had to do with their Macs.
As if that idiotic decision wasn't enough, they were also on the verge of switching to PCs district-wide when they built and equipped the new high school, which opened 3 years ago. In this case, the lame duck head of technology was about to retire, and though he didn't agree with the decision (by this time he'd realized the cost of maintenance apparently) nobody would listen to him; he wasn't capable of marshaling the evidence effectively and was generally treated as a joke. This decision-making was taking place about 5 years ago. I'd been protesting to our superintendent - I knew full well that we lacked the technology staff to support Windows and I knew that it wasn't going to be a cheap or easy solution. I gave him a stack of stuff to read about TOC etc. Still wasn't making much headway, although he was becoming quite intrigued by what he'd read about OS X. Then two things happened; our business manager got involved and asked about a transition plan - HOW were they going to actually move all those files and transfer all that data? Nobody had a clue. And then the local Apple education rep asked for a last opportunity to meet with the superintendent and others, and to his credit, he wowed them, pure and simple. Took them to see another brand new, mostly Mac HS in Massachusetts, showed them the networking and integration with the PCs on the network and generally resolved most of their questions. Net result was that the decision to dump the Macs was reversed and the new HS now has a lots of iMacs, G4s, G5s and every teacher in the district has an iBook or a Powerbook.
Of course, shortly after, they got a new superintendent who was the world's most arrogant and horrible man and he did everything he could to slam Macs. He knew NOTHING about computers and saw no need for technology to be truly integrated into education, but that didn't stop him. Luckily he got turfed out for having an affair with a secretary and various other nefarious deeds before he was able to do much damage to the hardware infrastructure. (He did however, completely decimate the support infrastructure - they are now hobbling along with about 1.5 people to support some 2000 computers, and no money to hire anyone else)
All of the teachers' Macs are now loaded with MS Office; and I believe some of those in the HS as well. The problem of course is the cost of licensing; they already had the seat licenses for Appleworks and MS ain't so cheap. They've concentrated on the areas where compatibility with PCs is more likely to be an issue and where files go back and forth many times.
Post by: krissel on August 22, 2007, 09:20:41 AM
QUOTE(kps @ Aug 22 2007, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Apple abandoned the edu market, it wasn't all Apple's fault. I recall Paddy, Krissel (and others) mentioning on numerous occasions about school districts switching to PCs because of cost...and nothing but cost....and you can't get AW for Windows.
Little known fact, you could get AW for Windows. YUP, it was available.
For instance, here is an updater:
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/app...forwindows.html