Post by: jepinto on August 15, 2007, 09:59:59 PM
My friend fell for one of those "if you don't renew your domain now, you'll lose it" mailings. Her domain name is now held by Domain Registry of America She has had no contact with them since she fell for the letter scam.
Questions
How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?
She is ready to change web hosts. How does she do it? There appear to be no way for her to do anything.
From what I can read, the only way the owner of the name can transfer away from droa is to file a complaint with ICANN. Am I misreading this?
How can people fall for these scams after all the bad press?
Post by: krissel on August 15, 2007, 10:50:11 PM
Don't they have a control panel so she can go in and manage her domain? She should be able to go to another registrar (like GoDaddy) and apply to transfer the domain to them. She would also have to set up the domain to be free to transfer and be able to respond to the emails that the new registrar will send to her during the transfer process.
I've moved registrations several times. It takes a bit of time and some setup but reading through the policy page at Domain Registry, the only problem would be if there is a dispute in progress about domain ownership. That puts restrictions on the transfer timing.
Post by: jepinto on August 15, 2007, 11:03:38 PM
They've not sent her any control panel info.
Registration Service Provided By: Domain Registry of America
Contact: support@droa.com
Web:http://www.droa.com
Domain name: ******.com
Registrant Contact:
*******
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com
Administrative Contact:
*****
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com
Technical Contact:
*****
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com
It's ok, tell me if I'm more concerned than I need to be.
Post by: krissel on August 15, 2007, 11:16:28 PM
How exactly did she register this? I've gotten those things in the mail but just shredded them.
What she needs to do is contact them with whatever means they provided when she signed up and get a username and password to her account (or the numbers and email on that page). From there she can control things. However she will probably have to wait a period of time before she can move the account.
From DROA:
QUOTE
To transfer your domain name(s) you should first login to your account to lock or unlock your domain name(s) and/or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode" which is required to transfer domain services in an EPP registry (such as .org). Alternatively, you should contact your us to have your domain name(s) services locked or unlocked or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode." Only the registrant and the administrative contacts listed in the WHOIS information may approve or deny a transfer request. Without limitation, domain name services may not be transferred within 120 days of initial registration, within 120 days of a transfer, or 120 days of renewal, if there is a dispute regarding the identity of the domain name registrant, if you are bankrupt, or if you fail to pay fees when due. We will follow the procedures for both gaining and loosing registrars as outlined in ICANN's transfer policies. Transfer requests typically take five business days to be processed.
From GoDaddy's agreement:
QUOTE
4. Transfers of Recently Renewed Domain Names
You understand that if you are transferring a domain name that has been recently renewed there is the potential that the renewal year will be lost. The renewal year will be lost if: the domain name was renewed during the forty-five (45) day grace period after the expiration date had passed; and forty-five (45) days have not yet passed since that expiration date. You understand and agree that Go Daddy is not responsible for this lost year and that Go Daddy will not credit that year to your domain. You will need to review the registration agreement you have with your previous registrar to determine if you are due a refund or credit for the lost year. Please contact your previous registrar if you have any questions about the lost year. You understand and agree that Go Daddy will not intervene in the recovery of any such lost registration years that occur during the transfer of your domain name.
You understand that if you are transferring a domain name that has been recently renewed there is the potential that the renewal year will be lost. The renewal year will be lost if: the domain name was renewed during the forty-five (45) day grace period after the expiration date had passed; and forty-five (45) days have not yet passed since that expiration date. You understand and agree that Go Daddy is not responsible for this lost year and that Go Daddy will not credit that year to your domain. You will need to review the registration agreement you have with your previous registrar to determine if you are due a refund or credit for the lost year. Please contact your previous registrar if you have any questions about the lost year. You understand and agree that Go Daddy will not intervene in the recovery of any such lost registration years that occur during the transfer of your domain name.
Post by: sandbox on August 15, 2007, 11:47:03 PM
QUOTE
How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?
She didn't loose it, she moved it and that will cost her another contract expense if she moves again.
The registry includes server space, the information should be on her agreement and they should move her domain to their server.
QUOTE
She is ready to change web hosts. How does she do it?
She calls ASO or anyone else and has her domain moved, but since she's getting it for free, packaged in the registry why would she want the extra expense?
GoDaddy has the same promotions, as do others. You agree and authorize the registry to hold your domain name and as an extra bonus they give you server space. It might be a good deal? What's the numbers??
Post by: Paddy on August 16, 2007, 12:06:03 AM
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/12/domainreg.shtm
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/06/co...domain_slammer/
http://ask.metafilter.com/63781/Who-will-s...stry-of-America
(yes, years later, they're still at it...but you know that already)
http://forums.alwayswebhosting.com/showthread.php?p=8288
QUOTE
How do I get my money back?The Federal Trade Commission stipulated that upon consumer request DROA must refund any payment remitted to them, and compensate eligible consumers an additional $6.00 per domain name transfer to assist with fees incurred when transferring back to their original registrar. If you file a complaint with the FTC you may be entitled to additional redress if you experienced any loss of business or business expenses due to DROA’s scam. Contact Domain Registry of America at (866) 434-0212 or via Email at support@droa.com. They must credit your credit card within seven business days according to the ‘Truth In Lending Act’ (TILA).
In the future, make sure she pays the $9.99 for private registration. If the domain name is important, well, she'll have to fight DROA. Start with the FTC, contact DROA and let them know you know about the FTC ruling. Don't take no for an answer.If DROA has her credit card number and has billed her for anything, then have her tell the credit card company that she's been the victim of fraud and do a charge back. Vendors HATE it when you do that - they get slapped with charge-back fees. (and if it happens enough, the credit card companies will no longer deal with the merchant...surprised it hasn't happened with DROA)More:http://blog.forret.com/2004/12/domain-regi...f-america-scam/ (this is funny - the blogger got a cease & desist letter from DROA!)
The guy who owns DROA has been a scammer for a while - DROA isn't his only fraudulent venture, apparently (same numbered company...different scam): http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/05/29/In...ngs_020529.html
SB, this is NOT a good deal - her domain didn't need renewing. That's the whole scam. See all the links I posted. Do not give these people a red cent - they don't deserve it. And they're ridiculously expensive - $30 a year just for registration - they don't host! It's the equivalent of telephone slamming as far as I can tell.
Post by: krissel on August 16, 2007, 12:24:47 AM
Those letters can be very convincing to people who are not aware. Similar ones show up claiming to advertise my business or scan my website for security and optimization. Yeah, sure, all for a fee of $184 for 6 months.
As to the FTC ruling, apparently it was not finalized and is still in limbo so they continue. From one of your links:
QUOTE
Is there an actual, answerable question here, or are you just venting and seeking commiseration?
Yes, it's in the OP:
is there any kind of action/suit against the company now? If not, why not?
I'm not a lawyer and this is not professional consultation, but I do have access to a (massive) database tracking internet law happenings and the last I see of DROA is that FTC injunction (approved by the FTC) going back to the court for approval. I'm assuming that this is still in litigation 4 years later in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.
I've searched that court's site and seen nothing new, but the presiding judge is still there so presumably they're still in litigation. But that FTC proposed final judgment had a huge amount of provisions for making restitution for people defrauded and monitoring the company for future bad practices.
I guess it's just slow in getting that final judgment.
Unless there's something in the PACER or Westlaw databases which I don't have access to, that's the state of things.
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:58 AM on May 31
Yes, it's in the OP:
is there any kind of action/suit against the company now? If not, why not?
I'm not a lawyer and this is not professional consultation, but I do have access to a (massive) database tracking internet law happenings and the last I see of DROA is that FTC injunction (approved by the FTC) going back to the court for approval. I'm assuming that this is still in litigation 4 years later in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.
I've searched that court's site and seen nothing new, but the presiding judge is still there so presumably they're still in litigation. But that FTC proposed final judgment had a huge amount of provisions for making restitution for people defrauded and monitoring the company for future bad practices.
I guess it's just slow in getting that final judgment.
Unless there's something in the PACER or Westlaw databases which I don't have access to, that's the state of things.
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:58 AM on May 31
QUOTE
FTC suit is in civil court and seems to be the FTC-led equivalent of a class action suit brought by private citizens. .
So her best bet now may be to try to cancel any payment. Though while this may save her money it won't get control of her domain back unless she follows the transfer policy. If she gets involved with ICANN it may take her forever to get through the dispute process.
Post by: Paddy on August 16, 2007, 12:32:21 AM
In this link it seemed like all that was required was the judge's signature. FOUR YEARS and still no sig? That's pathetic.
Still worth a call to the FTC, IMHO, both to complain and to find out the status of things. But yes - if all else fails, ask for a charge-back. (did she actually give these people her cc number?)
Post by: krissel on August 16, 2007, 12:34:27 AM
QUOTE
IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us and to hold us harmless from the claims and expenses (including attorney's fees and court costs). Under such circumstances, you agree that you will, upon demand, obtain a performance bond with a reputable bonding company or, if you are unable to obtain a performance bond, that you will deposit money with us to pay for our reasonably anticipated expenses in relation to the matter for the coming year. Such deposit will be drawn down as expenses are incurred, with all account notices sent to the WHOIS contact information provided in association with your domain names and/or account. We shall not be obliged to extend you any credit in relation to such expenses and we may terminate the Services for a failure to make or renew such a deposit. We will return any unused deposit upon the later of one year from deposit or the conclusion of the matter.
Post by: sandbox on August 16, 2007, 02:18:41 AM
The last registrar released the domain to a know criminal and eNom continues to use know criminals to exploit the public. If DROA actually has space available that Jen's friend has not been able to locate, the issue may go away. Jen does not say that the domain account was not ready for renewal, it could very well have been?
If I had the domain name I might be able to digg for a location.
Jen did say that her friend was looking for her server location so my guess is that she bought the package that included server space. eNom needs to be held accountable under their license, DROA has no license.
Post by: krissel on August 16, 2007, 02:37:21 AM
QUOTE
To transfer your domain name(s) you should first login to your account to lock or unlock your domain name(s) and/or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode" which is required to transfer domain services in an EPP registry (such as .org). Alternatively, you should contact your us to have your domain name(s) services locked or unlocked or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode." Only the registrant and the administrative contacts listed in the WHOIS information may approve or deny a transfer request. Without limitation, domain name services may not be transferred within 120 days of initial registration, within 120 days of a transfer, or 120 days of renewal, if there is a dispute regarding the identity of the domain name registrant, if you are bankrupt, or if you fail to pay fees when due. We will follow the procedures for both gaining and loosing registrars as outlined in ICANN's transfer policies. Transfer requests typically take five business days to be processed.
IMO it would be best for her to try to follow the established procedure for transferring her domain back to wherever she had it before. But she will have to wait the required period. At worst she will have only ended up paying an exorbitant fee for renewal, which is of course how they make their money off unsuspecting people.
Post by: jepinto on August 16, 2007, 06:06:19 AM
Thank y'all.
No, it was a check.
I will have her contact them for a control ppanel. She can't remember when she did it, and she is gone for two weeks, so it's moot (ish) now.
I'm glad I wasn't "just seeing bogeymen under the bed".
Post by: tacit on August 22, 2007, 03:48:19 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Aug 16 2007, 05:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Forgot. I found this in the DROA agreement. While most registrars have the hold harmless stuff, I think the bond requirement for defending them is unbelievable.
QUOTE
IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us and to hold us harmless from the claims and expenses (including attorney's fees and court costs). Under such circumstances, you agree that you will, upon demand, obtain a performance bond with a reputable bonding company or, if you are unable to obtain a performance bond, that you will deposit money with us to pay for our reasonably anticipated expenses in relation to the matter for the coming year. Such deposit will be drawn down as expenses are incurred, with all account notices sent to the WHOIS contact information provided in association with your domain names and/or account. We shall not be obliged to extend you any credit in relation to such expenses and we may terminate the Services for a failure to make or renew such a deposit. We will return any unused deposit upon the later of one year from deposit or the conclusion of the matter.
This does not mean that you can't sue DROA. It means that if you host a Web site, and because of your Web site someone sues (for example, if your Web site has proprietary information or defames someone or has copyrighted material on it or something), it is YOU, not DROA, who is responsible.
The key is this part: IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us...
Post by: antony on August 29, 2007, 09:39:30 PM
It is interesting to note that...
I got my .org domain from Go Daddy for US$ 8.99 per year (+ 20 cents ICANN fee). The price from (domainrenewalonline.com) is a staggering US$ 79.95 per year.
Further,
QUOTE
When Domain Renewal extends your domain no information will be changed in the “Whois” information section.
The expiry date information is part of WHOIS, it translates that US$ 79.95 will give you nothing.
Post by: Paddy on August 30, 2007, 12:57:53 AM
The English translation of their site is atrocious - should be a red flag right there, along with the ridiculous price. Seems they're operating out of Belgium and/or the Seychelles, and they've been busy boys lately, judging by the number of comments on blogs and forums.
Yet another scummy reason for private registration.
Post by: antony on August 30, 2007, 01:37:30 AM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Aug 30 2007, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where did you find the price, Antony? Just had a look at their web site and the price isn't listed anywhere.
Just type any domain into the box, and you will get the price.QUOTE(Paddy @ Aug 30 2007, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Seems they're operating out of Belgium and/or the Seychelles, and they've been busy boys lately, judging by the number of comments on blogs and forums.
I did not notice that. Thanks.
Post by: Mayo on August 30, 2007, 12:43:11 PM
Post by: tacit on August 30, 2007, 01:20:21 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 30 2007, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that private registration is a must these days and worth every penny. If you don't use private registration you can expect to receive a ton of spam at the e-mail address you provide when you register a domain.
There is, however, one very, very serious problem to private domain registration.
ICANN, the organization that assigns and monitors domain name registrations, requires that every domain name "whois" have the correct and current contact information for the registered domain owner. Domains that don't can be canceled.
So when you get a "private" domain registration, technically speaking, you don't own the domain name. The proxy service that does the registration owns it. They act as a prxy on your behalf to register the name, but technically it belongs to them, not to you.
Normally, this is no big deal. If you want to move registrars or transfer the domain or whatever, then they'll do it without a fuss.
But every now and then, it explodes dramatically, as in the Registerfly debacle.
Registerfly is a former domain name registrar and Web host that recently imploded on itself, after the owners accused one another of embezzlement and fraud, and the company stopped registering domain names properly. ICANN revoked their registrar status. It's a huge mess--customers are suing Registerfly for fraud and breach of contract, the owners are suing each other, many customers who were hosting at Registerfly saw their sites go down, it's quite spectacular.
Anyway, hundreds of thousands of Registerfly customers started leaving Registerfly like rats streaming from a sinking ship, and moving their domain registration to other registrars. But Registerfly is refusing to transfer many domain names that were registered privately. The people who own them? Screwed. Most of them may never get their domains back...because Registerfly is the legal owner of the domains. When you register privately, you're not the legal owner; the proxy service or registrar is.
Post by: Francine Eisner on August 30, 2007, 10:13:50 PM
Some of the companies who administer the royalties are corrupt, and while they may collect the royalties the musicians never get paid. One of the companies that he signed with to administer his mechanical royalties, AMRA, was very honest, but a one-woman operation. The lady retired and the company was sold, and then sold a second time to a real wheeler-dealer based in California. This one turned out to be a complete crook. I discovered this because...you guessed it: Jeremy stopped receiving any checks, when in previous years his checks totaled anywhere from $3000 to $10,000.
The new owner didn't return my phone calls or respond to my letters asking that Jeremy be released from his agreement with the company. Although this agreement was with the previous owner, it was still binding, apparently. What I did manage to do was to contact all of the agencies (many of whom were overseas) which had been paying royalties to him over the previous 30 years, asking that they withhold payment to anyone, pending our investigation of the matter. This was a massive undertaking, and I was successful. I received many letters agreeing to withhold payment. So the company owner couldn't pilfer this money, and in the interim we didn't get it, either. I finally did get a really nasty letter from the her of course!
The trouble was that the original contract stated that the owner of the (company had the right to administer each property in perpetuity, until she was willing to give up that right. Hard to believe, but true. Eventually she did give up these rights, because she ran the company into the ground and just didn't want it anymore. Oh...forgot to mention that I contacted some other musicians who were signed with her. Some (the most famous) said they thought they were getting all of their royalties, and others said they definitely were not, but were too busy or not particularly disposed to do anything about it. Presumably she thought Jeremy was of the latter category (He was), and easy to prey upon.
I have no idea if Jeremy has been able to collect royalties on his tunes since then. We were going to sue, but we split up 5 years ago, so who knows what happened...?
Cheers,
Francine
Post by: krissel on August 31, 2007, 01:23:26 AM
Post by: Gregg on August 31, 2007, 07:41:45 AM
QUOTE(jepinto @ Aug 15 2007, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If ther's typing mistakes, my apologies in advance, I've tried to see if the middle finger of my left hand can do without a knuckle today, so things are rough right now.
Do you have a photo clearly showing just that finger?
QUOTE
How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?
Ask Ray Donovan. Maybe he figured it out.
Oh, maybe it wasn't his "good name" but his "reputation"?
Post by: Mayo on September 02, 2007, 04:10:01 PM
I have sent GoDaddy a detailed query that quotes your post verbatim along with some questions of my own... namely, how are my privately registered domains "insured against loss" as claimed in GoDaddy's private registration FAQ?
I'll get back to you when I receive a reply...
Post by: Paddy on September 02, 2007, 11:39:17 PM
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2007/05/...ly_domains.html
http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/usrbingee...es-transferred/
http://help.godaddy.com/article.php?articl...mp;topic_id=534
Private registration for a site that is not an e-commerce site has advantages I'm not about to give up. (To have private registration for an e-commerce site is a good way to invite distrust, because that's what scammers often do too!)
Either way, it's obviously rather important to make sure that you register your domain with a reputable, well-established registrar who has been in business a good long time. Also, it's probably not a good idea to register your domain "free" through your hosting company as part of a hosting package unless they're on ICANN's list of accredited top level domain registrars, or you really don't care if you have problems down the road. There have been tales of woe from those who have done this and when they decide to move registrars/hosting, been given a real runaround. And typically, the registration alone, without the bundled hosting is substantially more than you'd pay through a registrar like GoDaddy.
Post by: Mayo on September 09, 2007, 03:28:11 PM
From GoDaddy:
If I buy a private domain name from Domains By Proxy, will I still be listed as its registrant?
First, Domains By Proxy is not a registrar so you cannot purchase a domain name directly from us. However, you can purchase a private domain registration through our affiliated registrars, all of which are ICANN-certified. Second, when you purchase a private domain name registration, Domains By Proxy becomes the registrant of the domain registration. Even though Domains By Proxy is the registrant, you retain the FULL BENEFITS OF DOMAIN REGISTRATION. This means that only you can:
Cancel, sell or transfer your domain registration.
Cancel our service so that registrant status reverts to you
Renew your domain registration upon expiration
Designate the name servers to which your domain points
Resolve claims arising out of a dispute involving your domain registration
The benefit of this arrangement is that the Whois directory publishes Domains By Proxy's name, postal address, and phone number instead of YOUR name, postal address, e-mail and phone number.
The statement seems clear enough to me. No doubt Tacit will find one or more possible legal loopholes and/or ambiguities in the above... Having read the entire GoDaddy Domains By Proxy agreement I have not found any language resembling the corporate legalese in the original post. I am confident that a good attorney (and I have very, very good lawyers...) can use the information provided by GoDaddy to convince the court that the customer retains all rights to the domain name while Domains By Proxy is merely acting as an agent for the domain owner. I would be willing to bet that a summary judgment in favor of the customer would be the likely outcome of such a dispute.
I, for one, find the benefits of private registration too important to give up based on the fear of every possible (but not necessarily probable...) twist and turn of life.
Post by: chriskleeman on September 10, 2007, 10:15:51 AM
I just got a message from my Hosting Provider and now Registration Service Provider, IPowerWeb (bundled) about making sure that my domain and billing information was correct for ICANN
Looks to me that the Registrant and the Domain name are one and the same? This thread has left me shivering a bit about all this...
What a mess this can turn into if you're not careful!
Chris K
Post by: Paddy on September 10, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
Post by: tacit on September 11, 2007, 01:53:27 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Sep 9 2007, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I, for one, find the benefits of private registration too important to give up based on the fear of every possible (but not necessarily probable...) twist and turn of life.
What benefits do you see in private registration?
Post by: Paddy on September 11, 2007, 02:06:58 PM
QUOTE
What benefits do you see in private registration?
No spam. No junk mail. No admonitions to "renew" my registration from bogus companies! Umm...is that enough?
In the case of one domain I owned, shielding me as the owner was important. It was an information site about our town's politics and certain of our school funding opponents would have wasted no time in making a big deal out of the fact that I wasn't in fact a US citizen, if they'd known I was the sole owner. As it was, it belonged to the organization I helped start, not really to me. Over the years, I and others in the organization endured a number of nasty phone calls from wackos because of publications or notices we'd distributed - I had no desire to start getting them from the web site too.
I have absolutely NO desire to have my name, my email address, full home address, home phone number etc. in full view of anyone who does a "Whois" search on one of my domains. I work from home. I might feel differently if I had a business address for this, but I don't. Sorry.
Post by: Mayo on September 11, 2007, 03:57:22 PM
Post by: tacit on September 12, 2007, 10:01:21 AM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Sep 11 2007, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
What benefits do you see in private registration?
No spam. No junk mail. No admonitions to "renew" my registration from bogus companies! Umm...is that enough?
In the case of one domain I owned, shielding me as the owner was important. It was an information site about our town's politics and certain of our school funding opponents would have wasted no time in making a big deal out of the fact that I wasn't in fact a US citizen, if they'd known I was the sole owner. As it was, it belonged to the organization I helped start, not really to me. Over the years, I and others in the organization endured a number of nasty phone calls from wackos because of publications or notices we'd distributed - I had no desire to start getting them from the web site too.
I have absolutely NO desire to have my name, my email address, full home address, home phone number etc. in full view of anyone who does a "Whois" search on one of my domains. I work from home. I might feel differently if I had a business address for this, but I don't. Sorry.
That makes sense, especially in light of the political issue.
I haven't seen any spam that I can definitively trace to my domain registrations; but then, my email address is featured on a very large number of Web sites, so a flood of spam is pretty much inevitable.
Post by: sandbox on September 12, 2007, 10:28:05 AM
Post by: chriskleeman on September 13, 2007, 08:01:36 AM
Tacit, I've been able to trace a lot of the spam I get coming directly from my website because of the way I've got the e-mail forwarding set up. I also have a web-mail interface set up on my website so I can see that I'm getting many of the same messages caught in my spam filter that are sent from the e-mail link on my website. But, a good part of the spam just comes in anyway....
I don't think from what I've been reading in this thread that private registration would help out the spam situation very much since I have that e-mail link set up, but it sure would be nice to get less than I do... I'm up to over 100 a day most days. The saving grace is the Postini spam filter that comes bundled with the service from my ISP.
Chris K
Post by: Mayo on September 13, 2007, 09:51:51 AM
Javascript can be used to make it much more difficult for bots to access your e-mail link. A fool-proof way to keep your e-mail address safe is to use an e-mail "form" rather than a link. Instead of a clickable link that automatically opens the viewer's e-mail program, a form presents the viewer with blank "fields" that they fill-in with their contact info and message. Then they click a "send" button and you safely get the message...
If you change your Web site e-mail address and apply one of these fixes I predict that your spam problem will disappear if the new address isn't publicly available on WhoIs.
Post by: chriskleeman on September 13, 2007, 01:03:54 PM
I knew there might be a way to better camouflage my e-mail address from the simple forwarding that's been implemented, and now I know why other sites use the "questionnaire" type form that you write about...
Frankly, I hadn't given it much thought how to solve the problem, but maybe when Paddy gets around to helping me re-design the site that can be implemented. If I have the time, I'll give it a go myself, but I am playing so much catch-up with everything after moving my daughter out your way I don't know when I'll have time.
I'm a compleat Javascript idiot, I know nothing. it would probably take me a while to get it right! Might be a project for me when the snow flies, the power's still on, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere kind of day!
Thanks a bunch for pointing me in the right direction!
Chris K
Post by: tacit on September 13, 2007, 01:07:56 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Sep 13 2007, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you change your Web site e-mail address and apply one of these fixes I predict that your spam problem will disappear if the new address isn't publicly available on WhoIs.
Actually, it won't if he doesn't also change his email address, because the current email address is already on the spammers' lists. Spammers trade lists of email addresses; once an address gets on that list, even if you remove all traces if it from the Web, it will still get just as much spam as ever.
I have email addresses that have been deactivated six years ago that still get spam.
Post by: Mayo on September 13, 2007, 01:38:01 PM
E-mail forms can be done using HTML, CSS or other code and are a bit more work because a form will alter your Web page more or less depending on how you implement it... There is how-to info online and in books; e-mail forms may be a built-in feature of RapidWeaver and other WYSIWYG apps, but I cannot say that for certain.
QUOTE
it won't if he doesn't also change his email address
Tacit, didn't I say that in the snippet you quoted...?
QUOTE
If you change your Web site e-mail address...
Post by: Paddy on September 13, 2007, 01:40:04 PM
It's "& # 64 ;" - without the quotes and spaces of course.
Post by: chriskleeman on September 13, 2007, 04:45:18 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Sep 13 2007, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agreed, Tacit - you'll need to use a new addy. And you don't need Javascript - the ASCII coding for the "@" works just as well, in my 6 years of experience using it. No spam ever. It's "& # 64 ;" - without the quotes and spaces of course.
It's "& # 64 ;" - without the quotes and spaces of course. Hi Paddy,
Which of course, I think you already told me about in another thread, which I need to check on, I think I did it already???
Need to change that address!!! What a dope!
CK
Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 13, 2007, 05:42:55 PM
Some 'forms' code still include the complete address in the html page. I question our hosting company when I downloaded their form template, the only 'hiding' is that the name of that item is "hidMAIL_TO". I wanted to use a program that creates completely ASCII addresses ( it can also create javascript code ), but their Perl scripts weren't set up to handle that. We use form irregularly, and for only a short time, so it wasn't worth the effort to write new Perl scripts (even if I knew how!).
I hide any and all email addresses on our site by using "<SpamStopper>" from Railhead Design. It's completely free, has several different hiding capabilities in ASCII or javascript, it's extremely easy to use and, did I mention it's FREE?!
(Had to insert spaces between the ASCII number and the ":" to keep the software fro converting everything back into readable characters! So much for "Code" or "Codebox" being useful for all code text...)
CODE
<a href="m ;a ;i ;l ;t ;o ;: ;j ;o ;h
;n ;d ;o ;e ;@ ;a ;n ;i ;s ;p ;. ;n ;e
;t ;? ;s ;u ;b ;j ;e ;c ;t ;= ;A ; ;Q ;u
;e ;s ;t ;i ;o ;n ; ;a ;b ;o ;u ;t ;
;y ;o ;u ;r ; ;s ;i ;t ;e ;">C ;o ;n ;t
;a ;c ;t ; ;u ;s ;! ;</a>
The above is using the "Full Paranoid" setting! ;n ;d ;o ;e ;@ ;a ;n ;i ;s ;p ;. ;n ;e
;t ;? ;s ;u ;b ;j ;e ;c ;t ;= ;A ; ;Q ;u
;e ;s ;t ;i ;o ;n ; ;a ;b ;o ;u ;t ;
;y ;o ;u ;r ; ;s ;i ;t ;e ;">C ;o ;n ;t
;a ;c ;t ; ;u ;s ;! ;</a>
It translates into a browser displayed link "Contact us!"; that's all the user sees. When the link is clicked, the usual opening of an email app occurs and the viewer can enter any text she wants, your address, the "Subject:A Question" about your site" is also filled in in the email page. Obviously, the "Subject:" can be anything you want, and it's great to use something specific that you can filter with your email program. And the display text can also be whatever you want, of course.So far, I don't know of any bot/spider that goes to the trouble of decoding ASCII.
An the whole process takes as long as it would to type the email address, the 'Subject', the display text and the anchor html. One click then creates the html, another button puts it onto the clipboard. Click on your html editor page and command-V where it goes. Done.May be overkill and not 100% effective but it sure is easy and the cost is perfect!
Post by: tacit on September 14, 2007, 08:59:32 AM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Sep 13 2007, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tacit, didn't I say that in the snippet you quoted...?
QUOTE
If you change your Web site e-mail address...
Indeed. I interpreted that to mean "if you change your Web site so your address is not displayed," rather than "if you change the address you use to receive email from your Web site."
Post by: Paddy on September 14, 2007, 09:39:25 AM
BTW - GoLive, for reasons entirely unknown to me, will regularly screw up ASCII code. Not regularly enough to know exactly WHEN it needs to be checked, but often enough to be truly annoying. Dreamweaver does not appear to share this proclivity. I also don't think something like iWeb, which gives you no direct access to the code, allows you to do anything like substitute ASCII code.