Post by: RHPConsult on August 18, 2007, 02:35:27 AM
Query: She REALLY likes a version of Bookman font that she's been using for years w/WordPerfect (presently residing in OS9 on her G5). I want to be sure that the new document is in the precise Bookman she prefers. I've seen several "versions" called Bookman that do not quite meet The Standard.
Sugestions? Instructions?
What do I look for in the description of a(ny) Bookman font, to determine if it might be match her visual expectations, and especially one which, upon installation, will fully cohabit with 10.4.10?
Post by: Bruce_F on August 18, 2007, 09:53:42 AM
If the book is to be published by a big publishing firm, they will direct you to the Bookman they prefer to use. Most likely, it will be one of the versions I mentioned above.
Post by: RHPConsult on August 18, 2007, 10:04:48 AM
QUOTE(Bruce_F @ Aug 18 2007, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hunch that the Bookman used in Word Perfect might be something "made up" by Microsoft.
Now, THAT would be a surprise, given the decades long competition between them. But, whatdoIknow? Don't answer that!
Thanks for the "species" differentiation.
One last query: Would you estimate that each are equally compatible with OS 10.4.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 18, 2007, 10:04:50 AM
Can you get any info on its maker/source?
Don't seem to have Bookman anywhere around here...
FontBook might be able to enable OS X to use the OS 9 version. I assume she has both on her Mac? It should, at least, show the OS 9 fonts installed.
BTW, I deleted the duplicate thread. At the time there were no answers in it. I promise!
Post by: Bruce_F on August 18, 2007, 10:21:00 AM
QUOTE(RHPConsult @ Aug 18 2007, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Bruce_F @ Aug 18 2007, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hunch that the Bookman used in Word Perfect might be something "made up" by Microsoft.
Now, THAT would be a surprise, given the decades long competition between them. But, whatdoIknow? Don't answer that!
Thanks for the "species" differentiation.
One last query: Would you estimate that each are equally compatible with OS 10.4.10?
I have two of the three versions... Bookman Oldstyle and ITC Bookman. Both are Post Script fonts and both are residing on my computer running OS 10.4.10. Either one of those versions would be compatible with any print house even though I haven't updated my fonts since around 1998.
Post by: pendragon on August 18, 2007, 12:01:39 PM
I. FWIW, this is what my 10.4.10 Font Book application has to say:
PostScript name BookmanOldStyle-Bold
Full name Bookman Old Style Bold
Family Bookman Old Style
Style Bold
Kind TrueType
Language English
Version Version 2.35
Location /Users/harveyru/Library/Fonts/Bookman Old Style
Unique name Bookman Old Style Bold : 1991
Manufacturer Monotype Typography, Inc.
Designer Ong Chong Wah
Copyright Digitized data copyright The Monotype Corporation 1991-1995. All rights reserved. Bookman Old Style™ is a trademark of The Monotype Corporation which may be registered in certain jurisdictions.
Trademark Bookman Old Style™ is a trademark of The Monotype Corporation which may be registered in certain jurisdictions.
Description The origins of Bookman Old Style lie in the typeface called Oldstyle Antique, designed by A C Phemister circa 1858 for the Miller and Richard foundry in Edinburgh, Scotland. Many American foundries made versions of this type which eventually became known as Bookman. Monotype Bookman Old Style roman is based on earlier Lanston Monotype and ATF models. The italic has been re drawn following the style of the Oldstyle Antique italics of Miller and Richard. Although called 'Old Style', the near vertical stress of the face puts it into the transitional category. A legible and robust text face.
License NOTIFICATION OF LICENSE AGREEMENT
This typeface is the property of Monotype Typography and its use by you is covered under the terms of a license agreement. You have obtained this typeface software either directly from Monotype or together with software distributed by one of Monotype’s licensees.
This software is a valuable asset of Monotype. Unless you have entered into a specific license agreement granting you additional rights, your use of this software is limited to your workstation for your own publishing use. You may not copy or distribute this software.
If you have any question concerning your rights you should review the license agreement you received with the software or contact Monotype for a copy of the license agreement.
Monotype can be contacted at:
USA 847-718-0400 UK 44(0)1737 765959
For license terms and usage rights, please visit our web site at www.monotype.com/html/type/license.html
II. Re compatibility with 10.4.10:
Regular, Italic, Bold, & Bold Italic all work as designed in both Text Edit and Word 2004, Intel 24" iMac, OS 10.4.10.
I do not even have OS 9 installed.
How well it works with other text programs, I have no first hand knowledge. But as it works quite well with Word and Text Edit in my Tiger, I suppose it will work equally well with Mariner Write.
I am not sure what program originally placed Bookman on my OS, but indeed I have had no font problems.
HTH
[attachment=551:screenshot__1.jpg]
Post by: dboh on August 18, 2007, 12:55:57 PM
Each version will have its particular variations, so you should have your wife look at them. I would bet most type houses would have their own version of that font; you can view type samples online.
If you're just printing something from your computer for her, why not try installing the font from her computer?
Post by: RHPConsult on August 18, 2007, 01:06:23 PM
On the G5 (Tiger) it's v 2.0, May 17, 1996, also TrueType from Monotype.
Where things get interesting is when one opens WordPerfect in Classic and in its roster of fonts two Bookman suitcases are revealed: One is just plain-Jane Bookman, while the other is identified as Bookman Old Style (w/4 subordinate (?) styles listed separately. All are copyright by Monotype Corporation. The former is not shown in Font Book . . . nada, thus no GetInfo is available
I have printed out test paragraphs on both Macs in all available versions of Bookman and his/her cousins. They DO appear different! Huh?
Of course, the style she likes is the "plain-Jane" version in WordPerfect (its GetInfo is not available, as noted previously).
• • • •
I know, I know . . . just get her to prefer another one. Oh sure!
I have tried to persuade her even to abandon WordPerfect for MarinerWrite as the world has moved on over the past 10-15 years since WordPerfect abandoned Mac-sters. Nope! (It has to be some kind of back-handed compliment to either/both WordPerfect 3.5e and Apple that it works at all. It was, arguably, the greatest word processing application ever. I've even considered moving my OCR project from my Intel to her G5, but I am sure she won't relinquish it for such a period as I estimate it's going to take me to accomplish it.
Oh yes, there is one not especially artfully concealed agenda in all this. IF I present her with 500 pages editable of one of the major (typewritten) pieces of her literary work (other than her Harper and Row volume, published in 1972) from the past 40 or so years – all neartlly done-up in MarinerWrite – I do think she'll be persuaded. She KNOWS how to use it, she just PREFERS the fits and starts of her olde classic friend, WordPerfect. So, I really want the MarinerWrite "product" to look as close what she L-I-K-E-S, typographically, as is humanly possible (by the male of the species, that is).
Note to puzzled, Younger, Unmarried Readers: You'll come to understand all of this someday, just not now
Query to More Mature, Married Readers: All ideas re: "The Effective Principles of Persuasion" will be gratefully received.
Post by: RHPConsult on August 18, 2007, 01:13:21 PM
QUOTE(dboh @ Aug 18 2007, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you're just printing something from your computer for her, why not try installing the font from her computer?
I have been reluctant to drag the "plain-Jane" version (from whence cometh, I know not) from her Classic to my Classic-Free Intel . . . remembering all the stories of problems that can arise when blemished fonts are moved among Macs.I seem to recall some kind of Font Cleaner that was handed around a few years ago when we all moved beyond OS 7, I believe it was.
Anyone know where something similar might be found today?
Post by: sandbox on August 18, 2007, 01:14:11 PM
Safe web fonts
Bookman
ABCDE abcde 012345 &*!,.
Bookman, also called Bookman Old Style. Not shipped with WinXP. Shipped with MS Office 2000. http://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/fonts.html
Font Samples http://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/res_fontsamp.htm
Post by: dboh on August 18, 2007, 05:46:31 PM
---
Most major fonts come in multiple versions. I've seen variations both major and minor. OldStyle likely means it's designed to look like an old lead typface.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 18, 2007, 06:22:18 PM
If the OS 9 font is TrueType or Postscript ( Type 1 ), there should be no problem transferring them to any OS X system. Put them in the users Font folder and use Font Book to verify their status. Enable it and go for it.BTW, whenever possible, always use the built-in styles of any font rather than the "Bold, Italic, etc." offered by the System. Those 'styles' created by the System are simply distorted versions of the original font. The built-in ones usually have better kerning, letter shapes, etc.
The only font types that I know are incompatible with X are the old "Multiple-Masters" versions that Adobe tried to push some years ago. Of course, screen-only versions of any font will print horribly but I don't imagine any of those are still around!
The font in use should have no bearing on whether someone prefers one word/text processor or another, IMHO. The difference comes in the pleasant features and ease of use.
And the availability of an expert user? 
Post by: RHPConsult on August 18, 2007, 09:11:36 PM
QUOTE(dboh @ Aug 18 2007, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the font in her System folder? Why not just do a Get Info on that?
Never have looked before today, but there seems to be no OS 9 System Folder, so finding any Font Folder therein is beyond me. • • • • •
Thanks ABD, that's the "reassurance" I was looking for.
I'll re-port later.
Post by: sandbox on August 19, 2007, 12:25:18 AM
Post by: RHPConsult on August 19, 2007, 12:46:17 AM
I think I first got it (by purchase) years ago. It's the only font from those days that Lil has kept through several iterations of new Macs.
Her "favorite" is NOT just a copy of what came w/OS X. I do have Office for OSX, but I'm pretty sure it didn't come from there, because it wasn't ever installed on Lil's Mac, only mine!
Post by: sandbox on August 19, 2007, 01:31:33 AM
http://www.fonts.com/findfonts/mondosearch...amp;kid=bookman
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 19, 2007, 04:10:17 PM
Also in there is a "Fonts" folder ( yes, another one! ). If you've been nice to the font gods, the desired font will be in there. 
Post by: RHPConsult on August 19, 2007, 05:02:00 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Aug 19 2007, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On Lil's Mac, open a Finder window and select the main hard drive icon in the side-bar. You should see a "System" and a "System Folder" among other items in the list ( assuming you use View->List ). With good eyes or large icons, you may see the familiar "9" on the "System Folder" icon. Guess what OS is in there?! Also in there is a "Fonts" folder ( yes, another one! ). If you've been nice to the font gods, the desired font will be in there.
I don't think so! Also in there is a "Fonts" folder ( yes, another one! ). If you've been nice to the font gods, the desired font will be in there. [attachment=555:LGP__s_O...contents.jpg]
If memory serves, by the time "we" got to Tiger. Classic became essentially invisible. OS9 apps and files would open seamlessly, but "seeing" the earlier System folder with the "9" superimposed, I believe, became a thing of the past.
'Course. maybe my memory doesn't "serve"!
OTOH: I your memory is functioning and I can simply move the "original recipe" Bookman to my Intel, then all should be OK. Do you offer warranties?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 19, 2007, 09:33:30 PM
QUOTE("Xairbusdriver")
...Also in there is a "Fonts" folder ( yes, another one! ). If you've been nice to the font gods, the desired font will be in there.
Post by: krissel on August 19, 2007, 11:33:23 PM
If you are afraid of messing up your new Intel, create a new account and drag the font into the user font library rather than the system library. Then fire up a word processor and see what shows.
That second item, System Folder is the OS 9 one.
Post by: sandbox on August 19, 2007, 11:55:02 PM
Post by: dboh on August 20, 2007, 07:12:55 AM
You need to distinguish whether the font is Trutype (the file will have 3 letters on the icon) or Postscript (1 letter). If Postscript, there will be two files you'll need: the suitcase and the bitmap file (I may not be remembering the correct names, but they're pretty easy to distinguish).
If you don't want to trouble with creating a separate user, then drop the file(s) in with your other fonts. When you're not specifically using it, you can drag it to a separate folder, and it will just sit there and cause no problems.
I have not had a single font problem in OSX. I was careful about avoiding duplications, but I basically just copied all the fonts (and I have hundreds) over from 9. I've even got "weird" fonts in there that I picked up from shareware CDs.
I would think even if the font did act whacky, all you'd have to do is remove it from the folder, repair permissions, and convince your wife that there are many other, equally beautiful fonts.
Post by: RHPConsult on August 20, 2007, 09:30:31 AM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Aug 19 2007, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And just what is that folder between "System" and "User Guides And Information"? It sure looks like it has a "9" on it and is labeled ( in English, no less ) "System Folder". Have you actually looked inside that folder, as I suggested in my previous post #17 )?
Lady and Gentlemen. I do sincerely appreciate your patience and wisdom in this quest. However, I probably should have identified earlier and more clearly that I had already explored this folder in detail. It was the details that were not revealed in those explorations that really constituted the kernel of my initial inadequately drafted posting.QUOTE("Xairbusdriver")
...Also in there is a "Fonts" folder ( yes, another one! ). If you've been nice to the font gods, the desired font will be in there.
Please note . . .
[attachment=558:Lil__s_S...m_Folder.jpg]
Sorry it's such light type, but with several things open at once that's unavoidable. Please note that the PalinJane Bookman lacks any info on its author or version. Please also note that the "hidden" Classic (file) has no observable contents, at least not in 10.4.10 that I could discover.It seems clear now that I should just click and drag that puppy over from the G5 and see what happens! I like the New User idea, Kris. That's one of Harv's frequent and cogent advisories when I deposit a particularly vexing puzzle at his feet . . . now if I could just remember it over time!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 20, 2007, 03:33:48 PM
Just for consistencies sake, put them in the ~/Library/Fonts location, that's where most user installed fonts go.As for those "Classic" files, I don't think there's anything in there that you need to muck around with, even if you could. And that is not where OS 9 Fonts would be, anyhow. It's basically an application that runs in X, it is not an actual OS.
Post by: RHPConsult on August 20, 2007, 04:53:39 PM
And it only took 10 postings from patient friends and associates.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 21, 2007, 01:36:59 PM
Post by: RHPConsult on August 21, 2007, 01:49:57 PM