Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 01:31:49 AM
Ran fsck to get rid of "Application Enhancer," got it to "start up" and I'm getting quite a mess. On it now, by the way despite no hard drive appears on the desktop, which is the same old picture of my cat and my guitar. Firefox won't run but Safari, Sa good, at least for net access.
There are many alarms that such a file has quite unexpectedly but the main one is Spotlight and the notice will not go away, not be ignored.
Did i say there is no HD? There is no HD. I can't get at the files, i would trash all remnants of Application Enhancer if i could but i cant get the applications. This is a Power PC G5. I tried Disk utility but it seemed to stall when the "Quit unexpectedly" signs kept reappearing (for other apps).
I really feel stuck now. At least I had company at the blue screen.
Thanks for reading this far.
Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 01:51:50 AM
http://www.maclife.com/forums/topic/102067
Basically the finder is not working. I see there's a little flashing light under it in the dock.
I guess i managed to muck it up with my fsck commands. The first try was not successful, maybe missing a space or something. The second brought me here.
What is "archive and restore." Do i need HD space to do it? i have very very little. This was all part of my reorganization plan that has gone to heck.
Post by: krissel on November 26, 2007, 08:30:12 AM
But you may have done further damage earlier and may need to do an archive and install from your system CD.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120
However it needs an amount of space equal to the system it will be installing. It saves your old system as "Previous System" so unless you have at least a few Gs of space you may not be able to do it. Having too little space may be part of your original problem.
Do you have an external hard drive with an OS on it that you can boot to? Another Mac that you can connect via Target disk mode?
At the very least, boot to your system CD and try to run Disk Utility to do repairs and permissions. Disk Utility has a command for mounting drives. If it does, connect an external and copy off as much as possible. Worth a try.
Post by: Paddy on November 26, 2007, 08:44:20 AM
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/lackofram.html
Info on how to free up space:
http://creativebits.org/2004/11/os-x-free-...disk-space.html
Temporarily turning off journaling may help while trashing things:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?sto...071018123114713
Generally, it's best to do all clean-up before trying to install a new OS.
(Nothing like learning the hard way...) 
At this point, I'd use your Powerbook, or an external drive to back up your documents, mail, bookmarks etc. (which you should always do prior to a new install) and then either do an archive and install, if you have sufficient space on the HD OR wipe the drive and start over again. Trying to fight with an unstable system is probably not worth the effort. However, if the lack of disk space is the culprit, then that needs to be addressed first - either by reducing the amount of space used by files on your Mac or by getting a new, larger HD. Hard drives are ridiculously cheap these days - just as an example, a 500GB Western Digital Caviar, with three year warranty, can be had for less than $100:
http://dealmac.com/prices/31169047.html
Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 10:17:07 AM
I will try to reboot in target mode using the PB. I have found that divx is a big culprit in this no-finder situation. Try to get rid of that and APE. Also in that mode i should be able to save some stuff. I have 16 gigs left on this machine. The "update" took about six.
The control-f did not work, that would have been nice. Thanks.
By the way, the Apple boards are filled with these complaints, including from some serious users. I feel that Apple is trying to serve two masters by running the WIn and Mac chips at same time.
They parodied the IBM blue screen but have bought into it.
Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 04:00:58 PM
Ok, i tried the target mode and got it to work and deleted a lot of suspect files, but as they say on Mac message boards, no joy.
I am giving up on Leopard and will rescue some files and folders and start over, in Jaguar, or whatever the heck it is. Leopard can wait. It's too spotty!
Now where did i leave that Photoshop serial number?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on November 26, 2007, 07:07:59 PM
I think it behoves us to stop blaming Apple for problems we cause by installing apps/hacks that use hooks that Apple has always said may change or that it may not support in the future. Many of these things are extremely useful but we use them at our own risk. Upgrading without first disabling them is asking for trouble, IMHO.
The only sure-fire method of painless upgrading is to return the System to as stable and stock condition and creating as much free space as possible. Those and other successful steps can be found at many forums. Recovering from not so stock, limited disk space is possible, but not without more work than it would have taken by doing it first.
Also, remember that 'help' sites will always have more reports of 'problems' than successes. People who have no problems seldom ever bother to report such, it ain't interesting news!
It's the reports of problems that provide the fodder for the Help sites. Thus 'problems' appear to be more wide-spread than their actual numbers. Secondly, most 'reports' are anecdotal and slim on facts and specific actions taken by the reporter. It is nearly impossible to supply a single fix for the almost infinite possible causes of the users problem, especially, when those causes may be unknown even to the user.In particular, hingyfan would be best advised to return to the last viable, stable backup and start over with all the knowledge now available. It may mean buying a new external drive to off-load extra files and even a complete re-install of a previous OS. At that point, the need to upgrade may actually disappear!
Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 08:18:39 PM
Post by: krissel on November 26, 2007, 10:23:35 PM
BTW, it's Command+F to get Find.
Post by: hingyfan on November 26, 2007, 10:59:36 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Nov 27 2007, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why don't you just do an archive and install? I think you might have enough space for that according to what you wrote regarding the update and previous space. That way you don't have to wipe it all. You will have a spanking clean system and all your files. Then you can dump the old system after moving anything of importance out of it that you may want to keep.
BTW, it's Command+F to get Find.
BTW, it's Command+F to get Find.
The finder does show not up with that command. The computer just beeps.
I have 16 gigs left, after the Leopard install. Is that enough to archive and install? i would be happy if it was. I read you cannot use an ext. HD for this process.
Thanks.
Post by: krissel on November 27, 2007, 01:17:45 AM
Post by: hingyfan on November 27, 2007, 07:16:32 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Nov 27 2007, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A full install of Leopard is supposed to take as much as 11G if all the extras are included. You should be able to customize the archve and install to eliminate a ton of languages and possibly printer drivers. I'm guessing it may be around 5-6 G for the basics. If you can boot to the DVD it may be worth a try. If it fails you always have the option of the erase and install. In your case you may not want to select the option to save networking prefs, etc as that stuff may be corrupt. You will have to reenter that info yourself. Whatever you choose, just be sure you have off all the important data.
I read in one of the posts by the many people affected by this you need as much room as hard drives take up.
Post by: Gregg on November 27, 2007, 07:34:04 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Nov 27 2007, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A full install of Leopard is supposed to take as much as 11G if all the extras are included.
That's 11 GB?
I remember when we were told to put OS9 on the first 8MB of the boot drive!
Post by: hingyfan on November 27, 2007, 08:34:30 AM
The archive worked great. Basically everything is the same but a few apps will need tweaking (and serial numbers).
THANKS AGAIN!
Funny thing is this does not seem like an Archive and install, not that i know what that is. I selected the carry over settings. There is no Previous System folder. Everything is where i left it, with only cosmetic changes. I thought i would be digging stuff out of some folder.
Anyway, thanks again not only to Krissel but to all who put up with me, however reluctantly!
Post by: krissel on November 29, 2007, 02:08:12 AM
Good to hear it all worked for you. I'm wondering if when you have a fresh system with no updates that an archive and install merely overwrites the previous files. That would explain the lack of a Previous System folder.
Gregg: that was 8 GB for X. Many of the Macs built at a certain time had to have the boot system installed within the first 8 GBs of the disk. My Wallstreet is one of them. It did not apply to SCSI drives though.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106235
The day the Mac OS would fit in less than 8 MB was a loooooong time ago.
http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/os.html
The system file alone for 9 was over 13 MB and the full folder was in the 200 MB range. I remember thinking my Performa 6300 had a ton of space with 1.2 G and I'd never fill it up.
Post by: Gregg on November 29, 2007, 07:37:38 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Nov 29 2007, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gregg: that was 8 GB for X. Many of the Macs built at a certain time had to have the boot system installed within the first 8 GBs of the disk.
Thanks. I figured I might have used the wrong "Roman numeral". I stopped at The Store on the way home last night. (I love having the new store on my route!) I looked at an iMac which had OS 10.5.1 and the System Folder was 3.89GB. So that 11GB install must include iLife, iWork, iPlay, and iGet A Life too!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on November 29, 2007, 08:24:31 AM
Post by: Gregg on November 29, 2007, 12:14:51 PM
Post by: Mayo on November 29, 2007, 12:44:44 PM
So I usually keep all the basic OS files and user folders together on a partition. The exceptions are large folders such as my iTunes library and image folders (I don't allow iPhoto to import images into its library) that reside on external drives. My scratch volumes also live on external drives.
Post by: Gregg on November 29, 2007, 08:50:58 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ Nov 29 2007, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... unlike the OS 9 and earlier-days, there is no benefit to be gained from splitting-up things and placing them on separate partitions. It can even cause problems because it is common for the OS and some applications to expect a file to be in a particular location.
...
So I usually keep all the basic OS files and user folders together on a partition. The exceptions are large folders such as my iTunes library and image folders ... that reside on external drives. My scratch volumes also live on external drives.
...
So I usually keep all the basic OS files and user folders together on a partition. The exceptions are large folders such as my iTunes library and image folders ... that reside on external drives. My scratch volumes also live on external drives.
I would think an advantage would be that the unused portion of the drive would not need to be maintained as vigilantly as the partition with the OS and applications. This would also mean that some maintenance operations would take less time to execute, since the whole drive would not be examined.
The large library type things could be stored on a different partition than the OS and apps, rather than on an external drive. Of course, it depends on the quantities we're talking about, and the size of the drive.
As for scratch volumes, I'm totally unfamiliar with the concept....
Post by: Xairbusdriver on November 29, 2007, 09:23:50 PM
My son, the programmer, mentioned to me that he keeps his home/user folder separate from his System partition. As a matter of fact, it sounds like he keeps the System in one partition and everything else in the separate one(s). He says he does this because he needs to install updated systems quite often and this allows him to wipe that partition clean each time without bothering to move his apps/user settings/etc. I probably don't have all the facts straight, he talks over my head and quite fast, also.
And yet he is shorter than I am....I'll try to get the real info the next time I talk to him. BTW, I'm using my new 24incher he bought for me (after I sent him the money!), so I don't yet have all my customizations done yet. Man! This screen is MASSIVE!
Post by: Mayo on November 29, 2007, 10:28:18 PM
I began using external drives to store large amounts of data when internal drives were still relatively small. But even though my new iMac has a 250GB internal drive, it would quickly fill-up with image files that would then have to be moved elsewhere. My iTunes library is approaching 40GB and it will only get larger over time. An amateur photographer friend is setting-up a RAID enclosure that will eventually hold five terabyte (1000GB) eSATA drives. At her current rate I wouldn't be surprised if she had all five drive bays filled within a year if she follows a back-up protocol with at least two copies of every image file.
Scratch volumes are used by some applications for temporary storage of data during operations that max-out the available RAM. Photoshop is one such application that can run out of RAM during complex image editing... Any volume can be a scratch volume; the boot volume is typically the default scratch volume. But if you lack sufficient free-space on the volume it can cause problems, and the data on the volume can become badly fragmented in a very short period of time, even under OS X. So it is preferable to designate an empty partition for scratch use. One benefit to using an external drive partition is that external drives are often faster (usually 7200RPM) than internal drives, particularly if the Mac is an older model, a "stock" portable or a Mac Mini.
I have partitioned my internal Mac drives for years, but these days I don't have a reason to do so. I don't miss messing with and keeping track of multiple internal volumes. A number of years ago I got into the habit of banning volume icons from my desktop because it had become so cluttered with partition icons... To this day I still don't have any drive, CD or any other volume icons visible on my desktop.
Post by: Gregg on November 30, 2007, 07:27:44 AM