Post by: sandbox on August 10, 2008, 03:11:23 PM
A LAWSUIT filed Monday in California seeks class action status alleging that Apple denied technical staffers required overtime pay and meal compensation in violation of state law.
Filed in the US District Court for Southern California, the complaint claims that many Apple employees are routinely subjected to working conditions resembling indentured servitude.
Lead plaintiff David Walsh was employed by Apple as a network engineer from 1995 until 2007. His complaint says he was often required to work more than 40 hours per week, miss meals, and spend his evenings and even entire weekends on call without any overtime pay or meal compensation. He fielded technical support calls that often came after 11 pm.
The lawsuit alleges that Apple intentionally misclassified Walsh and many other workers as management employees in order to avoid having to pay them overtime as required under California law for hourly workers. It seeks to include Apple retail stores' staff as plaintiffs.
If the plaintiffs win this lawsuit, a judge or a jury could require Apple to substantially revise its compensation practices and also pay retroactive compensation to many of its present and former technical and retail store employees, which could run into millions of dollars.
Apple has not yet responded to the complaint.
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/118946,...e.aspx#comments
Post by: Gregg on August 10, 2008, 06:59:23 PM
Post by: krissel on August 11, 2008, 04:13:13 AM
He works for 12 years under such trying conditions and now decides it was so terrible? Hmm, after he no longer works there...
Let's see, I was paid a salary and often worked from 8 AM to 6 or 7 PM (45 minutes for lunch). I spent weekends doing lesson plans, summers creating new curriculum, on call with parents at virtually any hour. No overtime pay or any extra compensation for that. Unfortunately I didn't work for a successful big name company that I could sue for keeping me as an indentured servant for 32 years.
Post by: Jack W on August 11, 2008, 10:03:03 AM
Post by: tacit on August 11, 2008, 11:11:36 AM
Come to think of it, if that's indentured servitude, where do I sign up?
Post by: kbeartx on August 11, 2008, 04:53:54 PM
QUOTE(tacit @ Aug 11 2008, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought indentured servitude was something else completely.
Me Too.
I thought indentured servitude was a deal where you found some rich dude/dudette who would pay for your expensive dental work and then in exchange you'd have to be his or her servant [Butler or Chauffeur or something] until the bill was paid-off...
KB
Post by: kimmer on August 11, 2008, 07:55:14 PM
QUOTE(kbeartx @ Aug 11 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Me Too.
I thought indentured servitude was a deal where you found some rich dude/dudette who would pay for your expensive dental work and then in exchange you'd have to be his or her servant [Butler or Chauffeur or something] until the bill was paid-off...
KB
I thought indentured servitude was a deal where you found some rich dude/dudette who would pay for your expensive dental work and then in exchange you'd have to be his or her servant [Butler or Chauffeur or something] until the bill was paid-off...
KB
Is this why I'm having to Chauffeur Mac all over the place these days? Payback for my dental bills? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Post by: sandbox on August 14, 2008, 04:02:08 AM
Just because you get paid well, doesn't give a company license to do with you as they please.
Kris, did you sign a contract to do the things that you did, or was it voluntary? Would you have lost your job if you didn't volunteer? Is that how folks keep their jobs these days?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on August 14, 2008, 03:57:20 PM
QUOTE
Kris, did you sign a contract to do the things that you did, or was it voluntary?
Probably not, but it's also one of the main reasons exteachers give for leaving the profession.QUOTE
Would you have lost your job if you didn't volunteer?
Probably not. But who would have been hurt? The children/students, of course. Most employers are not blatant enough to fire someone for not doing extra work that they are assigned. They will just use other reasons. And, frankly, doing only what is absolutely required is a big reason many expect more than they deserve. That is not a "work ethic" it is a minimum-to-get-by attitude. And, form what I've seen of Kriss that certainly doesn't apply to her!
If I'm not mistaken (again!) "indentured servitude" has a specific time frame attached to it. The "servant" is not able to leave the "employment" until the indenture/contract is completed. I don't believe any major companies in Cupertino use that method for their employees.
Post by: krissel on August 16, 2008, 03:18:35 AM
We also were "expected" to do various things like setting up our rooms (if you had one) or readying supplies and curriculum for the opening of school. That meant you had to come in late August to get ready. We had to attend evening meetings, concerts, PTA fairs on the weekend (or contribute in the preparation) and a multitude of other events.
And you were assigned to at least 4 committees that met variously after school to perform duties. I was also responsible for developing the school fire evacuation policies (and maps showing routes of escape and charts for each room), displays for all the bulletin boards and showcases, assist the principal with crisis management and public relations. I also ordered all art supplies (including classroom supplies) for the year and unpacked the dozens of boxes, checked them in and helped distribute them.
A good friend and I ran the after school computer club (for which we did receive a few hundred dollars extra) and I helped start the school website (no compensation).
OH, I also taught a full schedule which for most years required traveling between schools and moving from room to room, carrying boxes of materials.
What would happen if I didn't do all this? Well, I did have tenure so they would have had a harder time firing me, but my evaluations would have been very negative. They could have withheld any salary increases or put me in a very unpleasant schedule or added another school. Fortunately my principals really appreciated my work ethic and bent over backwards to accommodate me if I had a request.
Ultimately I just wore out.
Even after being retired for several years I still have nightly dreams/nightmares about being in the classroom or working at school.
I wish I could be paid for all these extra years of "teaching".
Post by: Gregg on August 16, 2008, 05:38:01 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Aug 16 2008, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also taught a full schedule which for most years required traveling between schools and moving from room to room, carrying boxes of materials.
So, you taught art?
Back when I was in school, for all I know, the art and music teachers were full time at one school. Things have sure changed!
Post by: krissel on August 18, 2008, 01:32:10 AM
Those who had trouble with two dimensional projects could succeed in the three dimensional field. No one failed who tried their best.
When I first started I covered two schools and 4 extra classes being taught in a local church. My first year I had 968 students - the one marking period I bothered to add them all up. As time wore on the board hired more teachers so the last three years I didn't have to travel and stayed at one school. But most of the other 29 years were spent slogging through snow, rain, etc. trying to get from one school to another with only 15 minutes between classes. If traffic was light I could make it and then pray to find a parking space.
I did have a room at one school for about 10 years from about 1982-1992 when student population was at its lowest. But a minor baby boom and a very large immigrant population ended my art room. The year before I retired they had a referendum and voted to add on to my school and convert an old classroom to an art room. But it would have been a couple years before it was ready so I decided to get out while I still had relatively good health and my sanity.
Not sure about that last part though....
Post by: sandbox on August 19, 2008, 02:56:33 AM
Down here more than 50% of the minority kids aren't graduating.
You can't discipline them…if you try you're ridiculed for overstepping boundaries.
Two teacher friends moved from the West to teach here in Florida, both left to go back to the snow. Ideally, working here was right for them, but there is no measured control.
Florida is one of the worse places to get an education. You wouldn't believe how bad it is…so how do we fix it?
My sister-in-law was the top dog in a county school board, in Ma….. so I have had some enlightenment into the process and obstacles.
I think more credit should be given to online work. I suspect that the future will favor online education. I've taken courses from Harvard/MIT/USF online and suspect they are just as good as going back home and sitting in a classroom. My son gives classes online from the same location and thinks it’s the future of education. Jane takes annual online classes to maintain her nursing license.
Would it be better not to pool kids into classes where they can project their image?
Post by: krissel on August 19, 2008, 04:23:54 AM
There are so many things wrong but no simple answers.
For one, new teachers are not given enough support in many districts. They have only had student teaching as experience and in most cases that has been in good school systems. The teaching colleges don't send prospective teachers to bad schools as they may not get proper training from an experienced teacher. Hence the student teacher is not exposed to the reality of the below average classroom which is probably what their first job will be. New teachers are rarely given an easy class, in fact most likely they are given the class no one else wants. So what happens, well of course they are beaten down before they get a chance to succeed and feel that they can continue. That's why so many teachers leave within the first few years. They thought they were going to enrich young lives but instead they find themselves dealing with overcrowded classroom filled with disrespectful children. More support and assistance for new teachers is a must if we expect them to stay.
Small classes are a necessity in this day and age. Years ago kids could be expected to sit and pay attention and wait for a teacher to come around to help them. Not today. They are demanding immediate gratification and personal interaction with the teacher in an instantaneous response time. It takes a superhuman effort on the part of the teacher to keep the kids attentive and interested in what is being taught. And todays' kids are so tuned in to video that ironically a dull filmed lesson will often hold their attention better than one done in person. They just become like robots when the TV (or computer) screen is lit. It sometimes reminds me of that 1984 Apple commercial where they all are staring at the large screen.
Of course small classes and technology cost more money and what is the only budget that the public gets to vote on? Yep, the school budget which more often than not is rejected.
And then we come to the parents involvement, or lack of. The most telling single event is Back to School Night. Which parents come to visit the school and talk to the teacher about the curriculum and their child? Well of course it's the ones with the best students. The only time you get the parents of failing kids to come in is if they suddenly realize the kid may be in danger of being kept back instead of moving to the next grade. Actually that rarely occurs. These days they pass kids on anyway (social promotion) which has been probably the singularly worst trend that has enveloped education in the past 4 decades. What is the incentive to study if you know you will be passed anyway? Some schools have tried to change this procedure but the parents suddenly find their voices at board meetings when this subject comes up. Heaven forbid little Jennifer or Michael is not going to be with their friends in school.
As to discipline, much depends on the principal of the school and what backing is given the teachers. If the administration has a reputation of being strict then you have a chance to get control in your classroom. The kids all know which schools are lax and which are run on a short string. Teachers who know they will be supported by their supervisors will make the effort to confront unruly children and not fear being chastised or given a bad evaluation due to parental interference. I remember once refusing to give a final grade to a student who had not fulfilled an assignment that was mandatory. The alternative was to fail him. The principal was initially very upset because the parent was on the Board of Education. But I held my ground and the kid finally complied with what he was expected to do. I probably risked my job at that point but I never heard anything afterward. How may teachers have just given in and passed a kid under these circumstances. Lots. While the teacher may save his/her job, the kid is now moving on without the proper foundation, a failure looming ahead.
It may be that a certain number of kids would do well in an online situation but many would not without someone to focus their attention toward the specific lesson at hand. It takes a well disciplined mind to teach yourself and have the will to keep at it and not goof off. In many cases it boils down to the old saying that someone will do well at something if it interests them. That's kind of why I tried to introduce the kids to every possible media and as many ways to connect the arts and creativily to their life as possible. I figured that they would find at least one thing that they might enjoy and pursue.
I'm also thinking that uniforms in some school situations would take a lot of the envy and one-upmanship out of the classroom.
And some studies show that single sex classroom have advantages. I don't think a total sex segregation is advisable since they have to learn to get along with each other and compete to an extent but perhaps as an elective choice.
Lest I leave the impression that all is horrible in every school I must say that our local schools in my town have an excellent reputation. However it is also a very wealthy town and the schools have all the latest of everything, small classes, experienced teachers and very involved parents. Not what you find in most towns.
In the district where I taught it initially was your basic middle class community with concerned parents, decent facilities and very dedicated teachers. But in the early 90's we experienced a major population shift and within 10 years or so the only thing left were the dedicated teachers. Then the drain started. Now there are only a few left at my base school from when I was there.
Total burnout.
OK, I've gone on enough.
