Post by: daryl66 on October 19, 2008, 12:44:09 PM
While checking e mails
last week the screen exhibited something that is hard to describe. It suddenly and without warning became all wavy,and kind of over layed with lines. The mouse and kbd were inactive and I had to remove the power cord to restart. It cleared up and worked fine until this morning. A similar but different type of occurrence, but this time the mouse was active and I was able to restart it from the finder 
. When it came up the display had what can only be described as blocks of something that looked similar to exclamation marks !!!! !!!! !!!! scattered around the display. Ran Disk Utility first aid and Cocktail pilot and they remained. I then ran Disk Warrior and upon the restart it came up normal and all appears fine
. (At least for now)While DW was running those marks remained and occasionally the whole screen would "Jiggle", like it does when when you enter the wrong password on start-up. My first thought was power again.
I have since backed up with SD.
Any and all input is appreciated
:sos:Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 19, 2008, 12:54:47 PM
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8247066
(not sure what the last post in that thread is all about - I'm wondering if she posted in the wrong thread!)
http://www.redefined.tv/PostIt/
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?...7873779#7873779
Post by: daryl66 on October 19, 2008, 01:21:23 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 19 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl, you're not the only one with strange video problems, although yours sound a little different:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8247066
(not sure what the last post in that thread is all about - I'm wondering if she posted in the wrong thread!)
http://www.redefined.tv/PostIt/
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?...7873779#7873779
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8247066
(not sure what the last post in that thread is all about - I'm wondering if she posted in the wrong thread!)
http://www.redefined.tv/PostIt/
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?...7873779#7873779
Paddy: Thanks for the links.
Does not appear to be the same problem. Also my G5 is a ppc,running Tiger. looks like that issue is with an Intel model, and Leopard plus the symptoms are totally different.
However I did put in 2 gb of memory not too long ago and I think It was before this problem started. ??????? maybe ?????
Also the "hardware test" was mentioned a couple of times. Can you point me to where that is discussed???
Daryl
Post by: gunug on October 19, 2008, 02:23:50 PM
Post by: daryl66 on October 19, 2008, 02:53:20 PM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 19 2008, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 19 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl, you're not the only one with strange video problems, although yours sound a little different:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8247066
(not sure what the last post in that thread is all about - I'm wondering if she posted in the wrong thread!)
http://www.redefined.tv/PostIt/
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?...7873779#7873779
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8247066
(not sure what the last post in that thread is all about - I'm wondering if she posted in the wrong thread!)
http://www.redefined.tv/PostIt/
http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?...7873779#7873779
Paddy: Thanks for the links.
Does not appear to be the same problem.
Daryl
Looks like I spoke too soon. About 30 mins from the last post it went to H--- in a hand basket. Weird video and fans running a hundred miles an hour. Hoping it was that memory I replaced the 2 new 1gb memory sticks with the original 2 256mb sticks and fired it up. Almost immediately I got the same symptoms as described and pictured in the above posts. I now have it powered down and am attempting to decipher GN's post.
GN: I have a bootable back-up partition on a spare disk that I use exclusively for back-up, but I am not quite sure what you are telling me. Can you simplify it for this old dummy???
Daryl
Post by: kbeartx on October 19, 2008, 05:37:11 PM
QUOTE
IMAC heading south??
Maybe it's winter migration...hey! didja try using Migration Assistant?
KB
Post by: daryl66 on October 19, 2008, 05:57:12 PM
QUOTE(kbeartx @ Oct 19 2008, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
IMAC heading south??
Maybe it's winter migration...hey! didja try using Migration Assistant?
KB
KB Well winter is just around the corner for this part of the country so that probably is not a bad idea.
I am not sure what you are suggesting. I have a complete bootable and current back-up on that spare disk. It could be that I do not understand what Migration Assistant really does.
Are you suggesting a complete erase and reinstall of the system disk???Daryl
Post by: kbeartx on October 19, 2008, 06:40:37 PM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 19 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you suggesting a complete erase and reinstall of the system disk???
Just playing w/ the words, no suggestion intended...
KB
Post by: Paddy on October 19, 2008, 08:45:40 PM
At least that might give you some clues.
Sorry about those links BTW - I saw that one of the posters in the second thread said he had an iMac G5 - on closer examination, it's really not a G5 - he's confused.
However, the fact that you're getting the same weird video as the people posting in those threads makes one wonder if it's OS related somehow.
Post by: daryl66 on October 19, 2008, 09:32:19 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 19 2008, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl, try booting from the external disk and see if the problems persist. If not, then it's an indication that it's not the logic board, video or anything hardware related (other than perhaps the HD, though I don't think video problems are typically a symptom of a dying HD!) but something wrong with your system files.At least that might give you some clues.
The more I learn the more confused I get. I have tried a couple of things. It seemed to me like the situation was occuring after the computer woke up from sleep (its normal idle state), and using Entourage or Firefox today. The last thing I tried was to "never" put it to sleep and start a random screen saver after about 15 minutes, thinking that if it was hardware or heat related it would probably show up. It has been solid for several hours now. I am going to keep it this way overnight and see what happens. I think I am beginning to agree that it is probably not hardware. If it shows up again I will go for the boot on the external disk.ThanksDarylQUOTE(kbeartx @ Oct 19 2008, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 19 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are you suggesting a complete erase and reinstall of the system disk???
Just playing w/ the words, no suggestion intended... KB Daryl
Post by: daryl66 on October 20, 2008, 11:24:35 AM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 19 2008, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At least that might give you some clues.
It ran all night with the random screen saver and exhibited no problems this morning.???
I think I will replace the 2 1gb memory sticks.
Keep it awake with the screen savor for a couple of days and see what happens.
If it continues to be ok then go back to the "sleep" situation and see if it recurs. I recall some earlier posts here about this particular model IMAC G5 having some sleep issues. Do not recall the exact nature tho
Daryl
Post by: daryl66 on October 20, 2008, 04:19:43 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 19 2008, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl, try booting from the external disk and see if the problems persist. If not, then it's an indication that it's not the logic board, video or anything hardware related (other than perhaps the HD, though I don't think video problems are typically a symptom of a dying HD!) but something wrong with your system files.
No joy. After running all night and most of today without a hicup it failed hard while on the random screen saver. I replaced the memory sticks with the 2 1gb I had taken out earlier and fired it up with the external disk and in less than a minute it failed
I guess just to be sure it is not the "system" and is probably hardware, I should attempt a "Clean" install. My Tiger disk is 4.1 I think. Any recommendations on how I should go about it??Is there not a "hardware test" option someplace?? How do I do that??
Daryl
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 20, 2008, 04:46:48 PM
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
Post by: daryl66 on October 20, 2008, 05:12:14 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 20 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl, please try booting up from the external drive that you mentioned.
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
Paddy, I did boot from the external disk and it failed HARD in less than one minute. I did not even have time to change the energy saver before it died. It had been such a short time from the last failure it makes me think it is heat related.
I have up loaded a picture of the failed screen to both Flicker and Photo bucket but I cannot seem to get either of them to Link. Do you know if they still do that??
daryl
Post by: kbeartx on October 20, 2008, 05:30:08 PM
KB
Post by: daryl66 on October 20, 2008, 07:11:01 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 20 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
Ran the hardware test, it took 1 hour and 41 minutes with the 2 gb of ram. No trouble found.
Tomorrow is another day. Will keep trying. I really do not want to bite the bullet for a new machine YET.
Daryl
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 20, 2008, 08:21:52 PM
QUOTE
I really do not want to bite the bullet for a new machine YET.
OTOH, that might be a great way of avoiding ending up with a machine without FireWire! Still, like you, I'm hoping you can determine the problem is software related and save some $ for the coming gift-giving season. I'll PM you with my wish list, later. 
Post by: dboh on October 21, 2008, 07:36:49 AM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 20 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
Ran the hardware test, it took 1 hour and 41 minutes with the 2 gb of ram. No trouble found.
Tomorrow is another day. Will keep trying. I really do not want to bite the bullet for a new machine YET.
Daryl
FYI, when my hard drive was in the process of dying, I ran Hardware Tests a couple of times and got reports of no problems.
Post by: daryl66 on October 21, 2008, 01:31:51 PM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 20 2008, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 20 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a hardware test on the ORIGINAL install disks you got with the G5. Start up off that disk and then select Hardware Test from the menu, rather than the OS install.
Tomorrow is another day. Will keep trying.
Daryl
Tuesday MAY be a good day. Did a clean install of Tiger 4.0. The whole time it was loading the screen was acting funny, IE: jiggling, funny stuff all over it.
Upon restart It all cleared up and has been running just lovely for about an hour now. Although quite slow 
Conclusions: IF it keeps running then it was system software.
Down loaded latest update from "software update" Possible
culprit?????
Back up disk also corrupt
Now to get it all current once again.
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 22, 2008, 09:01:56 AM
We'll keep our fingers crossed!!
Post by: daryl66 on October 22, 2008, 12:18:29 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 22 2008, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Although some people have no issues with installing system updates via Software Update, there is a pretty consistent pattern of problems being solved by using the standalone "Combo" updaters that can be downloaded at Apple's web site.
We'll keep our fingers crossed!!
We'll keep our fingers crossed!!
MAYBE A CLUE.
This time I did the update using the apple web site. The first time I tried to launch ITUNES, a message appeared stating "Itunes requires a newer version of Quicktime" and did not launch.
I did not check to see what version was was on the system disk
and went ahead and downloaded QT 7.5.5 from the Apple site.(The back up disk shows 7.5.5 so I must have done the upgrade at sometime) The screen immediately started going whacko. I then trashed everything Spotlight indicated was QT, restarted and it has been fine for almost 24 hours now. Possible conflict somewhere in QT ??????
Suggestions???
Daryl
Post by: daryl66 on October 22, 2008, 04:35:45 PM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 20 2008, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have up loaded a picture of the failed screen to both Flicker and Photo bucket but I cannot seem to get either of them to Link. Do you know if they still do that??
daryl
daryl
Well I did find the solution to the linking issue. Safari instead of Firefox.
this is what the screen looked like IMAC screen Still perking along without QT.
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 22, 2008, 06:26:23 PM
General info on kernel panics here:
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html
Can you find the error logs and post one of them? Sometimes the culprit can be discerned from looking at them.
There are reports of issues with QT 7.5.5 downloaded via Software Update and the issues went away when the download was done the Apple web site instead, but you've already tried that, so it's a bit of a mystery.
Post by: daryl66 on October 22, 2008, 07:33:49 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 22 2008, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can you find the error logs and post one of them? Sometimes the culprit can be discerned from looking at them.
Paddy:
Well I think I found the logs but after looking them over I would not know where to begin.
I took a screen shot here this appears to be the last finder crash. Is this where you want me to go??
Daryl
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 22, 2008, 09:33:52 PM
QUOTE
That's a kernel panic
Well, there certainly is the 'kernel panic' window showing. But, unless that window was mentioned earlier, this is the first time the screen problem and a kernel panic have been linked. And I'm not sure we can positively connect one without the other. Kernel panics are so rare that it seems rather difficult to say what caused it when it cannot repeated on demand. It may be completely unrelated to the screen problem. I think the image does what the screen problem Daryl has been trying to explain to us. Of course, that really doesn't help define the actual cause...I haven't seen anything hat has ruled out hardware (heating) problems. I just find it strange that the OS would suddenly go berserk dealing with its video hardware. But I was wrong twice this yeer, allreddy!
Post by: daryl66 on October 23, 2008, 12:16:37 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Oct 22 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
That's a kernel panic
Well, there certainly is the 'kernel panic' window showing. But, unless that window was mentioned earlier, this is the first time the screen problem and a kernel panic have been linked. And I'm not sure we can positively connect one without the other. Kernel panics are so rare that it seems rather difficult to say what caused it when it cannot repeated on demand. It may be completely unrelated to the screen problem. I think the image does what the screen problem Daryl has been trying to explain to us. Of course, that really doesn't help define the actual cause...I haven't seen anything hat has ruled out hardware (heating) problems. I just find it strange that the OS would suddenly go berserk dealing with its video hardware. But I was wrong twice this yeer, allreddy!
Let me see if I can possibly clear up some of the possible confusion.(Most likely caused by my inability to explain things clearly) The symptoms began when the display started getting strange horizontal lines, and blocks of pixels(??) appearing at various places, and the whole screen jiggling. The mouse was inoperable and holding down the power button did not shut it down. I had to disconnect the power. The next time it happened I WAS able to "restart" from the menu it worked for a while then did it again. (I started thinking heat) I turned off the energy saver and put on a random screen saver and it ran overnight then sometime the next day it did the "Kernel panic" thing". I booted from the back-up drive and in less than a minute it did the Kernel panic again. (that is when I took the photo). I then did a clean install of tiger 4.0. While it was installing the screen again had the "blocks of pixels" all over the screen during the entire install. When it was done and I restarted everything appeared normal. Next I did the upgrade from the Apple web site. Appeared to be normal. Attempted to launch ITUNES and got an error message saying "Itunes" needs a newer version of QT to run. it did not launch. I then downloaded QT 7.5.5 from Apple.(When I checked the BU disk 7.5.5 was there so I must have upgraded it sometime earlier) As soon as I installed it the display began its hula dance. I immediately trashed everything that Spotlight indicated as QT. Restarted. It has been running fine now for 2 days.
Where I am now:
I erased the BU, and using SD made a new one. Now both disks are without QT. If all stays status quo, later today I will attempt to re-install QT.
In my own simple mind I now do not think that heat is/was the problem. If it were like the golden/ olden days of OS 9 I think an "extension conflict" would have been where I would have started looking, but with os x I do not have a clue. TS to the rescue?
Daryl 
Post by: Paddy on October 23, 2008, 01:54:46 PM
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...70�
If not, you can downgrade iTunes to 7.7:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...93�
Post by: daryl66 on October 24, 2008, 02:22:41 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 23 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm a bit stumped at this point, Daryl. Can't find any reports of QT 7.5.5 causing kernel panics. Unless your next attempt with it proves more successful, I'd downgrade to 7.5 - iTunes should run with that (may not be able to play HD video is all.):
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...70�
If not, you can downgrade iTunes to 7.7:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...93�
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...70�
If not, you can downgrade iTunes to 7.7:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...93�
Paddy: The plot thickens. It is definitely related to QT 7.5.5. After running fine for almost 2 days, this morning I downloaded a fresh QT and upon restart within less than a minute it began again. I trashed it. Now here is the unusual thing. It took 2 restarts to get it stabilized. I did this 3 times so it is consistent. Feel confident it would progress to that "Kernel panic" if I let it run.
This machine still has "classic"(not used but still have some old files) on it and QT shows up there. I shut off all of the QT extensions, still no joy.
I attempted to find an older version of QT to install with no success, and a lot of the reading seems to relate to the "security update" which I did with "SU" the last time.
ITUNES seems to run fine, launches fine and music plays at least. She does not do any video things there, and has not attempted to sync the IPOD since this started.
Daryl
Post by: Jack W on October 24, 2008, 05:22:43 PM
You might try downloading the 10.4.11 COMBO update, and re-applying it.
Then download the QT 7.5.5 update and re-install it.
As has been said several times on this and other TS threads, I ALWAYS download the COMBO updates and then install.
I NEVER go through Software Update to automatically update.
And I've never had any trouble with software updates doing it that way.
HTH, jack
Post by: daryl66 on October 24, 2008, 05:42:11 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 23 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If not, you can downgrade iTunes to 7.7:http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?m...93�
Well I should have left well enuff alone. Attempted to install Itunes 7.7. Expected to be told there was a newer version installed but that did not happen and it went thru the installation process. Instant Kernel panic. Stayed up long enuff for me to see that Itunes still had v8. No Quicktime installed at that point in time.(at least everything I could find had been trashed)Kernel Panic every time on restart.Went thru the clean install and update to 4.11 again and all is well once more EXCEPT, Itunes will not launch. Error message says "requires QT 7.3.1 or higher". Question now is "How did Itunes launch after I had tossed all of the QT stuff before??? and it did.QT 7.0 is presently on the Disk and I know what 7.5.5 does. Can anyone point me to a place where I can get QT 7.3.1 or higher???Daryl 
QUOTE(Jack W @ Oct 24 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Daryl,You might try downloading the 10.4.11 COMBO update, and re-applying it.
Jack: Been there and done that at least 3 times the past few days.ThanksDaryl
Post by: krissel on October 25, 2008, 01:18:33 AM
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/qui...31fortiger.html
7.4.1
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/qui...41fortiger.html
7.4.5
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/qui...45fortiger.html
7.5
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/qui...75fortiger.html
Post by: daryl66 on October 25, 2008, 11:12:15 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 25 2008, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Krissel: Thanks for the links. I really thought this would solve it. Long story short is IT DID NOT. I wont go into any more detail but the bottom line is that after APPZAPPER ZAPED, Searchlight, and the Apple finder has identified and I have gotten rid of everything that says Quicktime, when I attempt to install 7.4.5 it will not let me. States there is a newer version of quicktime already installed. It must be so cause whenever I attempt to install 7.5.5, It is almost instant Kernel Panic.
Is it possible that QT 7.5.5 is embedded in Applications like ITUNES, "Flip for Mac" browsers etc causing this?? BTW Itunes 8 works. (music anyway)
ARGGGGG
Daryl
Post by: krissel on October 26, 2008, 01:23:09 AM
Did you remove the receipts in the library/packages ?
This is the best suggestion I've found for reverting:
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts..._quicktime.html
Post by: daryl66 on October 26, 2008, 12:31:52 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 26 2008, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quicktime is really embedded in the OS so removing it can be really tough.
Did you remove the receipts in the library/packages ?
This is the best suggestion I've found for reverting:
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts..._quicktime.html
Did you remove the receipts in the library/packages ?
This is the best suggestion I've found for reverting:
http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts..._quicktime.html
I did remove the receipts.
This link looks encouraging. The problems described in the comments are similar sounding. I will give that a shot later today. (Wife in the midst of a large project rite now)
I will advise
Thanks again
Daryl
Post by: daryl66 on October 26, 2008, 03:37:54 PM
QUOTE(daryl66 @ Oct 26 2008, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 26 2008, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will give that a shot later today.
Thanks again
Daryl
[/size]WHOOPIE [size="2"] It looks like I may have finally found my way out of the woods. I followed the pacifist route and reverted to QT 7.4.5. Upon restart there was no icon for QT in the APP folder or anyplace that I could find, however ITunes worked.
Hoping that installing 7.4.5 might have gotten rid of the offending culprit I went ahead and downloaded and installed 7.5.5. With one exception (Flip for Mac) everything seems to be just lovely. Nice quiet display and no kernel panics. Itunes 8.01 and QT 7.5.5 installed
I want to express my sincere thanks for all who stuck with me on this, especially Paddy and Krissel.
I am sure it added a few more grey hairs and deeper wrinkles to my already grey and wrinkled self.
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 26, 2008, 04:50:14 PM
Post by: krissel on October 28, 2008, 11:47:10 AM
Post by: daryl66 on October 29, 2008, 02:23:20 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 28 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well it lasted about 12 hours. I have spent the past 2 days installing, uninstalling, upgrading/downgrading system software etc and in final desperation I erased the hd, installed the basic Tiger 4.0 and nothing else, fired up Safari and Yahoo, and in less than 15 minutes the symptoms appeared. Guess I will have to face the fact that it's broke.
Given its age, and the fact there is no Apple support (fix em type) anywhere close it is decision time.
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on October 29, 2008, 03:07:59 PM
Good deals to be had at the Refurb store:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB324LL/A
(This is the one we got my son - very nice.
)
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 29, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
Only 'gottcha' is that it will come with Leopard installed, you may have to upgrade some of your software. But, believe me, it will be well worth it! And with the built-in iSight, we might start another TS Virtual Caucus! 
Post by: krissel on October 30, 2008, 04:22:47 AM
DRAT!Guess all the software troubleshooting doesn't matter if there is a hardware issue. At least you know you tried everything and you have a great excuse to get a new Mac.