Post by: amk285nyu on November 06, 2008, 03:57:41 PM
But I've been having connection issues. We're on AT&T (only DSL service available out where I live) so of course the only supported router is that 2Wire piece of donkey-dung. The laptop 2-bars all the time during the day (typically not at night). It's unpredictable when it will do this, so it's always going in and out. It's highly annoying. It's possible the 2Wire isn't the issue as my little brother's 3-year-old $600 Dell laptop always connects to the 2Wire flawlessly. So I figured I might as well try installing an Airport Extreme. My little brother's computer should have no issue with it, and it's just been my experience in the past that when I shell out the extra dough to keep everything Apple, I'm much, much happier in the end. Their stuff has always just integrated more fluidly than everyone else's; it's not even close.
So I installed the Airport Extreme. I made the mistake of not installing the new Airport Utility software first (I saw the label, but I didn't realize there was an issue with old versions of the software; I knew I had all my utilities updated, anyway). Well, the Amber light of death comes on, blinking. It says in the manual that this means the Airport couldn't connect properly with the internet. I know the ethernet line I hooked in is good, though, because I simply unplugged it from the working 2Wire and plugged it into the Airport Extreme. First, I tried a soft reset. No good. I unhooked and hooked back in the power. No good. I tried a hard reset. I even held down the reset button for a full 10 seconds before having my brother plug in the power while I continued to hold it down (it didn't recommend this in the Apple help, but I found this recommendation in another forum while researching this problem). Still, no good.
My computer is detecting the Airport just fine. It's the connection between the Airport and my AT&T server that is screwing me. And since they only support the 2Wire, I can't call them about this.
Any ideas?
Post by: Paddy on November 06, 2008, 04:14:48 PM
So...to clarify...is the 2Wire still plugged in or not? (it should be between the Airport and the incoming DSL cable)
Is this an Airport Extreme Base Station or an Express? An Express can easily be used to extend an existing network. The Airport Extreme Base Station would replace the wireless router portion of the 2Wire. You would need to attach the AEB to the 2Wire via ethernet, then (and I'm assuming this is possible) turn OFF the wifi on the 2Wire and set up the AEB.
Post by: amk285nyu on November 06, 2008, 05:41:10 PM
Okay, so, I have to get an additional ethernet cord, and use that to hook the AEB to the 2Wire (which is connected via a separate cord to the internet)? Then turn off the Wi-Fi on the 2Wire? I'm not sure if the second part is possible either. The only way I know to turn off a router is to unplug it.
Why do I have to do this? This doesn't seem like it would be necessary. I'm replacing the 2Wire with the AEB. That's all I want to do. An installation CD came with the AEB that initiated when I inserted the disc. It asked me what I wanted to do with the AEB in the network. One of the options was, "Replace an existing router", and I chose that. So then it brings up the standard icon assigned to the 2Wire, and asks me if this is the router I want to replace. I say, "Yes", but it's unable to execute the installation because the AEB isn't even acknowledging the fact that I've wired it into the phone lines with the same ethernet cord I was using to connect the 2Wire.
The software should calibrate everything for me once I can resolve this. See, with the 2Wire, I had to turn the router upside down where it has a number printed on it that I had to go manually enter in my brother's control panel network settings; with the Airport software, since I'm on a Mac, I expect it will do that automatically.
Your suggestions, though, would have me manipulate hardware, and although they don't make sense to me, right now, it seems like the right direction. Whatever is causing this problem seems to be a hardware problem because I can't even progress to the step where I'm integrating the software.
Post by: kbeartx on November 06, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
I think that you should not indicate that you are replacing a router [not sure what your other choices are] but I think you need to 'integrate' the AE w/ the 2Wire, so it continues to function as a modem w/ AT&T's network. Conceptually at least, IMO the 2wire is needed as a modem and the AE will take over the routing functions.
Exactly how to do this, I dunno.
Seems to me you could get advice from Apple; you can't be the 1st person to want to use an AE w/ AT&T DSL.
KB
Post by: shouseee on November 06, 2008, 07:40:20 PM
Then you can turn off your wireless by accessing the 2wire's settings in a browser. Open up Safari and type in "homeportal" in the address bar. (or "gateway.2wire.net" I believe should also work) Once you get in there you should be able to find a setting to disable your wireless network. I could tell you more about that from my work computer, but hopefully this much is some help.
Now I better run and unlock my wife's car in the Walmart parking lot. The keys happen to be inside...
Post by: Paddy on November 06, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
So...are you clear now, amk285nyu, about the difference between the 2Wire and the AEB? The AEB does one thing only - it's a router. The 2Wire is both a router and a modem. By adding the AEB to your setup, you are replacing the router part of the 2Wire with the AEB, but you still need the modem part of the 2Wire in order to connect to the internet.
Post by: amk285nyu on November 07, 2008, 04:37:30 AM
QUOTE(kbeartx @ Nov 6 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Welcome to WiFi Voodoo Hell.
I think that you should not indicate that you are replacing a router [not sure what your other choices are] but I think you need to 'integrate' the AE w/ the 2Wire, so it continues to function as a modem w/ AT&T's network. Conceptually at least, IMO the 2wire is needed as a modem and the AE will take over the routing functions.
Exactly how to do this, I dunno.
Seems to me you could get advice from Apple; you can't be the 1st person to want to use an AE w/ AT&T DSL.
KB
I think that you should not indicate that you are replacing a router [not sure what your other choices are] but I think you need to 'integrate' the AE w/ the 2Wire, so it continues to function as a modem w/ AT&T's network. Conceptually at least, IMO the 2wire is needed as a modem and the AE will take over the routing functions.
Exactly how to do this, I dunno.
Seems to me you could get advice from Apple; you can't be the 1st person to want to use an AE w/ AT&T DSL.
KB
Gotcha.
Yeah, I know the 2Wire is technically a "Gateway" (since we're behind a firewall, I guess). This is all wikipedia had to specifically say about "Residential Gateways":
QUOTE(Wikipedia)
Small Office Home Office (SOHO) connectivity
Residential gateways (often called routers) are frequently used in homes to connect to a broadband service, such as IP over cable or DSL. A home router may allow connectivity to an enterprise via a secure Virtual Private Network.
While functionally similar to routers, residential gateways use port address translation in addition to routing. Instead of connecting local computers to the remote network directly, a residential gateway makes multiple local computers appear to be a single computer.
Residential gateways (often called routers) are frequently used in homes to connect to a broadband service, such as IP over cable or DSL. A home router may allow connectivity to an enterprise via a secure Virtual Private Network.
While functionally similar to routers, residential gateways use port address translation in addition to routing. Instead of connecting local computers to the remote network directly, a residential gateway makes multiple local computers appear to be a single computer.
Yeah, calling Apple is my next step. I've had better success with less effort on TS in the past. I just leave a post, and come back. It's just quicker than waiting on hold for days to get a tech rep.
I thought the AEP handled all the same functions as the 2Wire Gateway, but I guess not, so I understand why I'll probably have to run both machines. All I want is for the AEP to handle the signal. I'm sure the Apple guy will point out what I'll have to do. I'm obviously not the first Mac wi-fi user with this problem.
EDIT: Oh, I just saw the two posts from Paddy and his friend below yours. Okay, cool, I'll try that before I call Apple. I try to take up tech rep time only if I have a problem I absolutely can't solve by myself. It seems like because people are such whiners that when someone does have a truly complicated problem, you can't get them on the line.
Post by: Paddy on November 07, 2008, 07:20:56 AM
And it's her friend...who happens to be a he...
Post by: Mayo on November 07, 2008, 04:15:24 PM
"We have AT&T DSL which comes with a 2Wire DSL Router that is also a 802.11b/g access point.
I plugged in the AirPort Extreme 802.11n base station to it and configured the 2Wire to allow the AirPort to be in the DMZ zone. So therefore the 2Wire's firewall doesn't get in the way. The AirPort has its own firewall.
Then I configured the AirPort with the wireless network "MacGroup". I left the 2wire wireless network on and turned off broadcasting of the name. This way I could have a private network for the presenters if the "MacGroup" network got too bogged down.
In your case you could set up the AirPort as your 802.11n ONLY network and use the 2wire for your 802.11 b/g traffic for any older computers you have. This would prevent the AirPort from stepping down to a slower speed when a slower computer attached. You would need to make both networks different names and setup the AirPort as "BRIDGE" to your 2wire. OR you could simply turn off the wi-fi on the 2wire and just use the AirPort for your wireless needs."
I doubt that contacting Apple will be any more helpful than contacting ATT... It is no more realistic to expect Apple technical reps to be familiar with a non-Apple DSL modem/wireless gateway than to expect ATT tech support to know anything about Apple hardware.
In my experience using Google to search for answers to problems like this one turns up a fix 90% of the time in ten minutes or less. TS is a rather small galaxy of Mac users; when our collective experience isn't enough then it is time to move up to the much larger Internet Universe.
Post by: amk285nyu on November 13, 2008, 12:10:37 PM
So I bought an ethernet cord to connect the AEB and 2Wire. I reset the AEB and let it start up. My MacBook Pro automatically detected it and I set it up according to plan: this time I extended my network to include the AEB, not replace the 2Wire, and put it in Bridge mode; I also chose to create a new, separate network for the AEB that I would run my laptop on using 802.11n technology, while keeping my little brother on the previously existing 2Wire network to run his old laptop using the 802.11b/g technology.
And it worked, and everything was fine. Except the name of the new network. I had named it "Andy's AEP 802.11n Network": the "p" clearly the typo. Yes, I'm that anal. I tried to change the name in the Advanced System settings in the Network pane of System Preferences, but I couldn't. So I deleted the network, and tried to reset the AEB again to mulligan everything I'd just done. And that's where all my problems began.
I don't know why it messed everything up, but now, my computer isn't even recognizing the 2Wire. My computer remembers the 2Wire network, but it isn't actually connecting to it. When I boot up, it automatically connects to the 2Wire (at least that's what it says it does). I see four bars up in my taskbar. But when I go into Network settings, I see that it's self-assigning the IP address for the 2Wire. And I can't surf the internet. So I tried deleting the 2Wire network, now, too, and tried resetting the 2Wire router. I even tried a hard reset when I held the button down for 15 seconds, then had my little brother plug it in while I continued to hold it down. It didn't seem to work: my little brother's internet didn't stop working once it booted up, so it's like we didn't have to recalibrate everything and set up the network all over again. It didn't work out of the gate the first time we set him up on the 2Wire.
And that seems to be the problem, now. I can't delete these networks. They keep coming back. I even deleted the "Andy's AEB..." network with which I replaced the typo network, then did a soft reset of both routers. It comes back and works perfectly. It shouldn't do that. I should have to set it up again. So you know, I have deselected the box in the Advanced Network settings tab that says "Remember all networks I have joined." I did that before deleting them and resetting the routers.
So the bizarre state of my computer now is that I can't surf on the 2Wire because my computer isn't actually communicating with it, but I am surfing right now on the new "Andy's AEB..." network. But only if I'm in the same room as the base station. Originally, before I got anal, I was switching with equal ease back and forth between the 2Wire and AEB networks. And I was doing it in my room which is above the room where we hook in the routers. This room isn't far at all, just one story up. Now it won't detect the base station unless I'm literally in the same room. It has like a 15-foot range that only works in the lateral plane.
And, what's more, when I try to open the Airport Utility if I have the "2Wire" network selected by my airport, it won't even recognize the the Airport base station is there. It says, "No Apple Wireless Devices in range". But if I have the "Andy's AEB..." network selected, it does recognize the base station, and tries to take me through the setup again. And when I come to the step where I tell it that I'd like to extend my wireless network by connecting the Airport via ethernet to another device, the options it brings up are: 1) 2Wire928 "Wireless Network", 2) Andrew's Airport Extreme "Previous Base Station Configuration", 3) Andy's AEB 802.11n Network "Previously Used Network".
At this point, I just want to start over from scratch. Should I delete system files? I can't access the "gateway.2wire.net" from my computer, but I can from my little brother's computer, and I remember having to do that when I first set up the 2Wire. I had to change something in there so my Mac could surf on the 2Wire; there was some extra step I had to take to get my Mac working that we didn't have to take with his PC and with the Xbox 360. It seems like I'm back in that place I was when I first was trying to get the 2Wire working. It feels like I didn't achieve a hard reset on the 2Wire, but a soft reset that didn't disrupt my little brother's surfing, yet took my computer back to a square one that I need to get past again, now. I wouldn't care, I'd be fine on the Airport Network, but whatever disabled the 2Wire network for me seems to be affecting my AEB network range.
So again, what do I have to do to start over from scratch?
Post by: sandbox on November 13, 2008, 06:42:08 PM
You screwed the pooch when you changed the name because all your security was attached to it.
If it were me I would start from scratch. Remove all related preferences, reset airport and 2wire modem.
Firewalls are very complicated instruments and when you alter their path or ID you set off bells and whistles.
It only takes about 15 minutes to reset your wireless network, so don't put it off, it's most likely inevitable.