Post by: gunug on January 27, 2009, 11:59:02 AM
QUOTE
The transition date would move to June 12 from February 17 under the bill that was fueled by worries that viewers are not technically ready for the congressionally-mandated switch-over.
It also would allow consumers with expired coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box, to request new coupons. The government ran out of coupons earlier this month, and about 2.5 million Americans are on a waiting list for them.
Senate Commerce Chairman John Rockefeller said delaying the TV switch is the right thing to do because the United States is not yet ready to make the transition.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9012601984.html
It also would allow consumers with expired coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box, to request new coupons. The government ran out of coupons earlier this month, and about 2.5 million Americans are on a waiting list for them.
Senate Commerce Chairman John Rockefeller said delaying the TV switch is the right thing to do because the United States is not yet ready to make the transition.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9012601984.html
Post by: Xairbusdriver on January 27, 2009, 04:12:13 PM
In the meantime, confusion will continue to rain (and that's not a misprint!). 
If this is not a perfect example of how not to "govern" I don't know what is. 
Just who's "airspace" do any of these people think they are 'auctioning' and legislating?
Post by: kimmer on January 27, 2009, 05:20:23 PM
QUOTE
Senate Commerce Chairman John Rockefeller said delaying the TV switch is the right thing to do because the United States is not yet ready to make the transition.
Post by: gunug on January 27, 2009, 08:07:12 PM
Post by: sandbox on January 28, 2009, 01:59:02 AM
Post by: krissel on January 28, 2009, 02:18:45 AM
What gets me is all the billions that are available for various bailouts but they complain about a few million to pay for more coupons. It's bad enough that there will still be thousands of TVs rendered useless but to deny a measly $80 to those who can least afford a new TV or cable is disgusting. The sale of that airspace was worth billions to the government.
Post by: Al on January 28, 2009, 03:22:36 AM
I am wondering why the Hawaii airwaves went digital one month earlier than the rest.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on January 28, 2009, 08:27:24 AM
Oh well, there is still "Hope."
And, besides, some people said they wanted "Change." I just hope 25 cents is enough for them...
Post by: kimmer on January 28, 2009, 12:26:46 PM
QUOTE(Al @ Jan 28 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am wondering why the Hawaii airwaves went digital one month earlier than the rest.
I can't find the article right now, but it had to do with an endangered bird that nests near some towers that have to come down. At least that's what I think I remember.
Post by: dolphin on January 28, 2009, 03:00:39 PM
DTV fails in House
Post by: Francine Eisner on January 28, 2009, 03:14:52 PM
I'm one of the 13 million...
Francine
The Mac Gardener
QUOTE(kimmer @ Jan 28 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Al @ Jan 28 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am wondering why the Hawaii airwaves went digital one month earlier than the rest.
I can't find the article right now, but it had to do with an endangered bird that nests near some towers that have to come down. At least that's what I think I remember.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on January 28, 2009, 03:26:17 PM
Plus, it gives them bragging rights as leading the country! They may be further away from DC but they seem to have been able to beat the deadlines set there. Or, just maybe being further away from DC is another of Hawaii's benefits! 
Post by: kimmer on January 28, 2009, 11:27:59 PM
Our local cable company is small enough to have received an exemption, and so they won't be upgrading their broadcast equipment. They will receive the HDTV signals from the satellites, but will be sending out an analog signal to all us lucky customers. So far, I'm unimpressed. The stations already broadcasting in HDTV show up with chopped pictures on all 4 sides, scrawls on the bottom are not readable because they are too low, we get pixelation like crazy, the sound is crummy ... and on and on. We have figured out how to watch the local weather by changing our screen view, but then we have to change it back again for the next segment.
Our current cable bill is $23 per month - and we get an amazing selection - even if we can't seem to watch it any more
; and we don't watch enough TV to justify the cost of satellite or dish -- so I guess we'll just deal with it all.
Post by: Al on January 29, 2009, 02:04:54 AM
QUOTE(kimmer @ Jan 28 2009, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Al @ Jan 28 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am wondering why the Hawaii airwaves went digital one month earlier than the rest.
I can't find the article right now, but it had to do with an endangered bird that nests near some towers that have to come down. At least that's what I think I remember.
Thanks Kimmer, I heard something similar as well after I posted. At least I am not affected at my home. But, I do use a radio at work that picks up TV sound as well, now I am getting a recorded message about the switch over, so, TV sound is a useless feature, lol!
Update: Here is the bird that has us being early on this....
Hawaiian Petrel
Post by: RHPConsult on January 29, 2009, 10:35:40 AM
Post by: sandbox on January 29, 2009, 03:05:27 PM
Maybe spending endless hours creating something, or improving something, or thinking, reading, socializing with neighbors, friends, or teaching children something about life without wire and waves will be a benefit and a reality check.
Yesterday i spoke to a guy who said that:
The leisure class can have all the ads, spam and pop-ups they want, they can afford it, for now. The working class will no longer support their lifestyle, and soon, very soon they'll be giving up the Tv's and Computers for breadlines and soup kitchens, trying to figure out how to live on the street......
I get the general sense out there that folks are just fed up, they will not live in a caste society any longer. They're not falling for dreams or false promises. They will not spend a dime on non essentials, they will not purchase anything that is not domestic, where possible, and they will reduce expenses in every category. Until the people, companies, and representatives are held accountable they will not trust anyone, which makes the TV useless.
Ok, this may be a small segment of the population, but it's growing and everyday that the TV brings more bad news, corporate greed and swindles the worse it's going to get. I heard on CNN yesterday that the leisure class is getting nervous and they're afraid to walk down the street with bags that advertise the up-scale stores they shop in. They want their purchases in plain sacks. A guy I know has parked his Benz and bought an old used ford to blend in. Resent murders at a Gated Community has sparked inquiries into increases in security on the premises. Police departments are shrinking as crime increases across the land. You would think that politicians had the brains to conclude that more time watching TV may give the riff-raff less time carjacking the population.
I have a very expensive marine TV that is about to become obsolete if i don't spend a lump of dough to adjust the waves. If it were my only TV I would fight to keep the air-wave just the way they are.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on January 29, 2009, 07:19:48 PM
). Digital provides the answer to most of these 'more channels' problem, be it TV or radio. And many radios were already using digital technology.So the new allocation scheme was hammered out as part of the whole change-over procedure. Different users will be restricted to certain frequencies but they will be in much narrower and stable bands, no more having to provide transceivers capable of extremely wide frequencies, should result in higher quality, better signals and maybe less expensive hardware. <Here is a PDF file (chart)> that Shure (a major producer of microphones, especially wireless models) created to help see where the allocations are and who will be able to use them. It is also quite easy to see who bought what freqs (bottom chart). Also obvious how little extra space is available.
Not sure what the three black bands are for, probably for the CIA? 
Some may wonder about even higher frequency usage. The problem, apparently becomes one of signal penetration. Extremely high freqs can be absorbed by animals (humans!) and obviously won't do well for any antennae mounted below building or tree tops. They also get absorbed, dispersed, blocked by weather such as rain or snow. They can still be used but usually only in some kind of carrier than air (wire, glass, etc.). Or for shorter distances in air (WiFi, BlueTooth, etc.).
"Just the facts, mam, just the facts."
Post by: Xairbusdriver on February 03, 2009, 08:47:13 AM
<The New Tech Stimulus Package, the Digital TV Delay and More> 
Post by: kcourt on February 03, 2009, 10:55:44 AM
Anyone who depends on the government for anything is crazy! As for the conversion, this proposed extension will just give the procrastinators more time to decide if and when.....
Kathy
Post by: chriskleeman on February 03, 2009, 04:46:27 PM
Probably one of the 13 million expired, and they won't replace it... expired or not.
Chris K
Post by: krissel on February 04, 2009, 12:45:33 AM
It may be easy for those of us who are tech savvy to brush off something as "simple" as buying and setting up the converter boxes. But my 86 and 90 year old parents needed me to get the coupons, purchase the boxes and install them. What about those who don't have someone to do that for them? There really should have been some sort of senior citizen group that could have stepped forward and offered assistance.
And the coupon program was a disaster. Having a 90 day expiration date for the coupons was ridiculous. What is the purpose of that? Back in the spring I spent hours visiting online sites to find out which boxes were the best. Seems as though many of the early models were garbage and those who got their boxes early were dismayed to find out they lacked important features that showed up in later models. Also the tuners available in late Spring/Summer were improved. So the people who were the early adopters did not get the best products.
Then there are the shortages of the best models. There are reports of stores being out of the better boxes and steering purchasers to the digital TV aisle to make a more profitable sale.
Also there are probably a lot of people who previously subscribed to cable or satellite who are now in a financial bind and will need to cancel their service. Many of them have older TVs and only now are coming to the realization that they need the converters.
No one asked for their perfectly good TVs to be made unusable. Think of the millions of CRTs that will end up in landfills (or hopefully recycled) because of the transition. We often complain of early and deliberate obsolescence of computers and other hardware so why isn't this considered in the same vein? Our throw away society apparently hasn't yet learned its lesson.
Post by: kimmer on February 04, 2009, 02:17:33 AM
QUOTE(Al @ Jan 29 2009, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Update: Here is the bird that has us being early on this....
Hawaiian Petrel
Hawaiian Petrel
Ohhh ... just noticed this. Cute bird.
QUOTE(krissel @ Feb 3 2009, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No one asked for their perfectly good TVs to be made unusable.
Yup. Same thing with the switch from analog to digital with cell phones. Suddenly a perfectly good phone no longer worked. We had to shell out money for a new one with our renewal.
QUOTE
Our throw away society apparently hasn't yet learned its lesson.
Strange that many of the "green" folks are quiet on this whole issue.
The whole thing is incredibly frustrating and annoying for everyone.
Post by: gunug on February 04, 2009, 08:35:09 AM
could be a bed potato instead of a couch potato!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on February 04, 2009, 09:16:23 AM
As for those who have lost the ability to buy cable/dish services, I applaud their decision to make appropriate cuts. But I also cannot support sponsoring support for entertainment. News is available from many other less expensive sources. Entertainment is available in many other, mostly much more effective and educational forms (talk radio excepted). It is even possible that some forms of 'entertainment' might return that actually benefits the encouragement of family life.
As for the installation procedures, I have not much sympathy. Instructions: 1. Up plug wire from TV. 2. Plug that wire into the new box. 3. Connect the included wire to the other outlet on the box. 4. Connect the other end of that wire into the plug that had the wire on the back of the TV. Trouble-shooting step: If it don't work, swap the connections on the back of the box. End. If this is too complicated or technical, perhaps this service would/could be provided by a local grade school project to get young people to interact with their elders! Doh! And I am not trying to be sarcastic.
As for the quality of the original boxes, see paragraph one.
As for supply problems, see paragraph one.
As for the reasons for the change, see paragraph one and he reasons given for the change that has been in the planning stages for dozens of years and not just for the benefit of broadcasters.
As for the confusion that will, without doubt, be caused by the delay, see paragraph one.
And, no, we haven't requested any vouchers for us but we do have a couple for Judy's 91 year old parents. Haven't even shopped for the boxes, however, except to ask a clerk at the local Wal-Mart if they had any, which they didn't. Still have 6 weeks to find some but we only have about 12 Wal-Marts to choose from. Perhaps one of the 8-10 Targets, K-Marts, Best Buys, etc. will have some. Granted, this kind of sourcing is not available every where, many places it is much better, we're just a back-water, minor, below average income pay, metropolitan area. Those in many more rural areas of the mountains or great wildernesses of the Great Plains may have more trouble accessing physical outlets, of course. OTOH, they may also have much less need since they may not even have a TV signal to receive...except from a dish, which negates any need for the box, anyway.
Bottom line, this is just a TV! What is all the fuss about?
Are American that dependent on the 'boob tube?!' If so, we are in much worse shape than I feared.
Post by: gunug on February 04, 2009, 09:02:34 PM
QUOTE
After much wrangling, the DTV Delay Act has worked its way through the House of Representatives and will certainly be signed by President Obama, changing the cutoff date for analog broadcasts from February 17 to June 12. Don't expect this to bring a sudden end to digital TV confusion, since stations can switch prior to that date, and according to the FCC up to 61% will be able to. Since simply powering analog equipment costs thousands of dollars a month, OTA TV watchers will want to check their local broadcaster's plans as more than a few will be going ahead with the original date for better or worse. Got an unused, expired coupon? No need to head to Retrevo just yet, since you'll now be able to reapply to the again-funded coupon program. Of course, the FCC still has to figure out how to implement the new law, with only a few days to prepare, tomorrow's open meeting on the subject should be very interesting.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/its-off...ved-to-june-12/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/its-off...ved-to-june-12/
I suspect the "very interesting" meeting will not be distinguishable from a full scale riot with all the telecom lawyers and media savants!
Post by: dolphin on February 04, 2009, 09:20:04 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Feb 4 2009, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, I have sympathies with those who want a delay.
It may be easy for those of us who are tech savvy to brush off something as "simple" as buying and setting up the converter boxes. But my 86 and 90 year old parents needed me to get the coupons, purchase the boxes and install them. What about those who don't have someone to do that for them? There really should have been some sort of senior citizen group that could have stepped forward and offered assistance.
And the coupon program was a disaster. Having a 90 day expiration date for the coupons was ridiculous. What is the purpose of that? Back in the spring I spent hours visiting online sites to find out which boxes were the best. Seems as though many of the early models were garbage and those who got their boxes early were dismayed to find out they lacked important features that showed up in later models. Also the tuners available in late Spring/Summer were improved. So the people who were the early adopters did not get the best products.
Then there are the shortages of the best models. There are reports of stores being out of the better boxes and steering purchasers to the digital TV aisle to make a more profitable sale.
Also there are probably a lot of people who previously subscribed to cable or satellite who are now in a financial bind and will need to cancel their service. Many of them have older TVs and only now are coming to the realization that they need the converters.
No one asked for their perfectly good TVs to be made unusable. Think of the millions of CRTs that will end up in landfills (or hopefully recycled) because of the transition. We often complain of early and deliberate obsolescence of computers and other hardware so why isn't this considered in the same vein? Our throw away society apparently hasn't yet learned its lesson.
It may be easy for those of us who are tech savvy to brush off something as "simple" as buying and setting up the converter boxes. But my 86 and 90 year old parents needed me to get the coupons, purchase the boxes and install them. What about those who don't have someone to do that for them? There really should have been some sort of senior citizen group that could have stepped forward and offered assistance.
And the coupon program was a disaster. Having a 90 day expiration date for the coupons was ridiculous. What is the purpose of that? Back in the spring I spent hours visiting online sites to find out which boxes were the best. Seems as though many of the early models were garbage and those who got their boxes early were dismayed to find out they lacked important features that showed up in later models. Also the tuners available in late Spring/Summer were improved. So the people who were the early adopters did not get the best products.
Then there are the shortages of the best models. There are reports of stores being out of the better boxes and steering purchasers to the digital TV aisle to make a more profitable sale.
Also there are probably a lot of people who previously subscribed to cable or satellite who are now in a financial bind and will need to cancel their service. Many of them have older TVs and only now are coming to the realization that they need the converters.
No one asked for their perfectly good TVs to be made unusable. Think of the millions of CRTs that will end up in landfills (or hopefully recycled) because of the transition. We often complain of early and deliberate obsolescence of computers and other hardware so why isn't this considered in the same vein? Our throw away society apparently hasn't yet learned its lesson.
Kris,
I agree with you on the elderly who don't know how to hook it up. There was a news story a couple of weeks ago about a young man (17) in Columbus, OH who was doing it for free. His mother was taking the calls and setting up the appointments. I thought at the time....what a nice thing to do. They interviewed a couple of the people who had theirs done by him and they were so happy.
There are some kind hearted teens who want to help those in need.
I say Bravo to this young man.
PS: I thought the expiring coupons was a joke also. Stupid if you ask me!:thumbdown:
Post by: gunug on February 04, 2009, 09:32:31 PM
Post by: Texas Mac Man on February 04, 2009, 09:42:50 PM
Congress delayed the switchover by about 4 months but did not allocate any $ for more coupons. The $ are in the "stimulus" bill. Who knows when this bill might be passed? So persons that need the $40 coupons still can't get them. Congress, in it's infinite wisdom, works in mysterious ways.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on February 04, 2009, 10:04:56 PM
Post by: krissel on February 05, 2009, 12:59:18 AM
QUOTE
At this point, we will not have—we cannot have—a seamless DTV transition.
QUOTE
Our shortfalls were (1) so grievously underestimating the effort it would take to make the switch-
over smoothly and (2) failing to build the kind of truly coordinated and synergistic private-public
sector partnership that would have allowed us to combine our resources and deploy them toward
a consumer-friendly outcome.
over smoothly and (2) failing to build the kind of truly coordinated and synergistic private-public
sector partnership that would have allowed us to combine our resources and deploy them toward
a consumer-friendly outcome.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/atta...OC-288191A1.pdf
There are other issues that concern closed captioning. About 23 million Americans have hearing problems and rely on CC. The analog CC is different from the digital and there is concern that stations have not been checked for compliance with the ruling that requires both versions to be emitted.
Setting up the converters to show the proper CC is not automatic.
QUOTE
Viewers who are used to having the caption decoding done in their analog TVs are mystified when they get a new DTV receiver and a digital set-top box. While the consumer electronics industry, the cable industry and the FCC have done much to educate the viewers on the transition from analog to digital, this particular problem has fallen by the wayside.
http://www.cedmagazine.com/Article-Capital...nts-030108.aspx
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/dtvcaptions.html
http://www.captionmax.com/en/about-caption...osed-captioning
And it isn't always just a matter of hooking up a coax cable to the converter and TV. Some older TVs don't have coax and use a flat or twin lead wire. Those TVs need additional adapters to carry the signal from antenna to converter to TV.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/setup...rbox-balun.html
Apparently the delay may not be mandatory for all stations and some may go ahead and flip the switch anyway. That might actually be better for some people who then won't lose everything all at once.
Concerning any additional cost to the stations to continue analog...my bet is they will be able to deduct those expenses as a tax write off.
Post by: sandbox on February 05, 2009, 04:46:12 AM
I don't see that slowing anyone down.
On another note:
That signal booster i told you about was borrowed 5 years ago I was told, not reminded, I might add.
Apparently it found it's way back to North Conway N.H. when I wasn't looking.
Post by: chriskleeman on February 05, 2009, 07:37:24 AM
Luckily for us, only one TV in the house is affected, which is in my studio. Only gets used for DVD's and VCR's for the most part. Dish Network in the living room.
Guess it doesn't matter that I can't find my coupon, I had no idea when I ordered it that there was a 90 day expiration limit.
I can't imagine how many senior citizens are going to wonder what the heck is going on when they go dark or can't get cc on February 17th.
Nice job, FCC...
Chris K
Post by: Paddy on February 05, 2009, 08:57:01 AM
I'm sure there will be lots of complaining come Feb. 17 - what a silly, avoidable mess.
Post by: RHPConsult on February 05, 2009, 09:22:15 AM
Please be patient.
Press 1 for English"
Post by: krissel on February 06, 2009, 01:20:35 AM
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090205/ap_...l_tv_transition
Post by: Highmac on February 06, 2009, 04:22:26 AM
In brief, they started phasing it in about 10 years ago, with digital channels broadcast from the same masts as the analogue channels (of which there were only five main ones). New digital-only channels encouraged most of us to get "Freeview" boxes so we could watch them as well (with the five analogue channels also broadcast on digital). Result in this house is that we never watch anything on analogue any more, so really won't miss it. We have a Freeview PVR with twin tuners, so the old VCR is just a very large digital clock
Anybody wanting to follow the nitty-gritty of our changeover can check out the official site of Ofcom "the independent regulator and competition authority for the UK communications industries" and Freeview site, the user's guide site. According to that, "digital switchover" on our transmitter will be in 2011. In this case "switchover" means switching off the analogue signals - we've been using the digital signals for at least eight years.
To check out the users' gripes and comments (nothing is perfect!), check out the Digital Spy forum, which covers everything from basic programming to the financial and technical side of the changeover. Includes this interesting thread (started by an American) about YOUR changeover
Post by: Xairbusdriver on February 06, 2009, 03:16:31 PM
QUOTE
we Brits might actually have done a better job of the changeover than your lot
Probably. But you must remember, we are changing from analog to digital NOT "analogue" to digital. It's that "UE" part that may be tripping us up. Sounds too much like "EU!" 
Post by: krissel on February 06, 2009, 11:23:09 PM
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
A ton of information:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/information_directory.html