Post by: Buck on May 12, 2009, 06:05:34 PM
The OSX disk shows on desk top. Mac help says to double click on install. But this only reboots the puter.
Oh snap! Back to square one. How does one Un-Pimps this Mac?
Machine Name: eMac
Machine Model:PowerMac4,4
CPU Type:PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Number Of CPUs:1
CPU Speed:800 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU):256 KB
Memory:512 MB
Bus Speed:100 MHz
Boot ROM Version:4.4.2f1
Post by: kbeartx on May 13, 2009, 03:04:53 AM
QUOTE(Buck @ May 12 2009, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...How to clean install from an external drive. The OSX disk shows on desk top. Mac help says to double click on install. But this only reboots the puter. Oh snap! Back to square one. How does one Un-Pimps this Mac?
Maybe it's just me, but can you clarify what you mean?
Is the OS you want to 'Clean Install' [in OS-X this procedure is called 'Archive and Install'] currently on an external hard drive, or do you have an Installer Disk Image on an external hard drive, or do you have an external optical drive from which you are running the installer DVD?
Which version of the OS are you running? Jaguar [10.2], Panther [10.3], Tiger [10.4], or Leopard [10.5]?
And what is the problem you hope to solve by this procedure?
You say you double-click on install and the Mac reboots. IIRC, this should restart the Mac into the installer program, which should prompt you for certain info and automatically run.
Perhaps you are trying to use an OS disk that can't run on your Mac?
What do you mean by "un-pimps this Mac"? Are you trying to downgrade the OS to an earlier version?
Do any error msgs or dialogs come up after the Mac reboots?
More info, please, so we can assist you.
Kb
Post by: tacit on May 13, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
QUOTE(Buck @ May 12 2009, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok. How to clean install from an external drive.
The OSX disk shows on desk top. Mac help says to double click on install. But this only reboots the puter.
Oh snap! Back to square one. How does one Un-Pimps this Mac?
The OSX disk shows on desk top. Mac help says to double click on install. But this only reboots the puter.
Oh snap! Back to square one. How does one Un-Pimps this Mac?
Yes, that is correct. That is what is supposed to happen.
You click install, the computer reboots. It is supposed to reboot from the Mac OS X Installer CD, not from the hard drive. Is that not what is happening?
Is the CD-ROM drive in the computer the original Apple CD, or is it a replacement drive? Some non-Apple CD-ROM drives will not boot the computer. You can not install OS X if you have a CD-ROM drive that will not boot the computer.
What color is the label on the OS X CD? Is it gray? If so, that means it came with some other computer. You can't install Mac OS X on one computer from a CD that came with a different computer.
Post by: Buck on May 15, 2009, 01:40:27 PM
You click install, the computer reboots. It is supposed to reboot from the Mac OS X Installer CD, not from the hard drive. Is that not what is happening?
No! It always restarts to the normal run status. It refuses to boot from the CD. It reboots from the HD.
Forget the Un pimp thing. My lame attempt at some humor.
Post by: kimmer on May 15, 2009, 02:08:33 PM
Post by: kbeartx on May 15, 2009, 02:12:27 PM
QUOTE(Buck @ May 15 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... It always restarts to the normal run status. It refuses to boot from the CD. It reboots from the HD.
Does the comp display any error msgs during the restart after you click Install?
My current guesses are:
the CD itself is damaged
the CD can't run on this particular Mac*
the CD drive is malfunctioning
the CD drive is an external, and does not possess the ability to boot an installer CD
You also have not answered the question of WHY you want to perform a 'Clean install'. Are you experiencing a recurring problem? Only a guess at this point, but it's possible that you are spinning your wheels needlessly on something that might have an easier [or at least a different] solution.
Kb
* in recent years, Apple has moved from CDs to DVDs for their Installer disks. If this is the case here, and the Mac is not quipped with a DVD-capable drive, then this project isn't gonna work-out too well w/o changes
Post by: krissel on May 16, 2009, 04:37:46 AM
If holding the C key doesn't work to force it to boot to the disc, you can hold down the Option key on boot to get the Boot Manager which should show your hard drive and the disc. You select the disc and hit the right arrow icon. Or you could do into the Startup Disk pref and select the disc while it is mounted on the desktop.
Post by: Buck on May 16, 2009, 11:16:51 AM
QUOTE(kbeartx @ May 15 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You have not clarified your use of the term, "external drive". Please do so. It might be the problem*.
Does the comp display any error msgs during the restart after you click Install?
My current guesses are:
I have a Mercury Pro 5.25 Combo CD-RW / DVD-RW External drive. Because My built in Optical Drive went South some time back. Camino & Safari Browsers keep crashing of late. I figured a clean install might fix this problem. What say you?
the CD itself is damaged
the CD can't run on this particular Mac*
the CD drive is malfunctioning
the CD drive is an external, and does not possess the ability to boot an installer CD
You also have not answered the question of WHY you want to perform a 'Clean install'. Are you experiencing a recurring problem? Only a guess at this point, but it's possible that you are spinning your wheels needlessly on something that might have an easier [or at least a different] solution.
Kb
* in recent years, Apple has moved from CDs to DVDs for their Installer disks. If this is the case here, and the Mac is not quipped with a DVD-capable drive, then this project isn't gonna work-out too well w/o changes
QUOTE(Buck @ May 15 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... It always restarts to the normal run status. It refuses to boot from the CD. It reboots from the HD.
Does the comp display any error msgs during the restart after you click Install?
My current guesses are:
I have a Mercury Pro 5.25 Combo CD-RW / DVD-RW External drive. Because My built in Optical Drive went South some time back. Camino & Safari Browsers keep crashing of late. I figured a clean install might fix this problem. What say you?
the CD itself is damaged
the CD can't run on this particular Mac*
the CD drive is malfunctioning
the CD drive is an external, and does not possess the ability to boot an installer CD
You also have not answered the question of WHY you want to perform a 'Clean install'. Are you experiencing a recurring problem? Only a guess at this point, but it's possible that you are spinning your wheels needlessly on something that might have an easier [or at least a different] solution.
Kb
* in recent years, Apple has moved from CDs to DVDs for their Installer disks. If this is the case here, and the Mac is not quipped with a DVD-capable drive, then this project isn't gonna work-out too well w/o changes
Post by: Buck on May 16, 2009, 11:26:40 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ May 16 2009, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the eMac didn't have a DVD drive I doubt the disc would show on the desktop.
If holding the C key doesn't work to force it to boot to the disc, you can hold down the Option key on boot to get the Boot Manager which should show your hard drive and the disc. You select the disc and hit the right arrow icon. Or you could do into the Startup Disk pref and select the disc while it is mounted on the desktop.
If holding the C key doesn't work to force it to boot to the disc, you can hold down the Option key on boot to get the Boot Manager which should show your hard drive and the disc. You select the disc and hit the right arrow icon. Or you could do into the Startup Disk pref and select the disc while it is mounted on the desktop.
Both HD disk & OSX disk show on monitor. C key does nothing. Op, key does nothing. In stall disk showing on monitor does not show in start-up disk window. Only the OSX 10.4.11 folder & the OS9.2.2 folder & Network Startup.
Post by: dboh on May 16, 2009, 11:53:34 AM
When you press the C key and restart, you keep holding the C key down until the apple appears?
When you press the option key and restart, you also keep pressing until drives start appearing (I can't remember if the apple shows here; if it does, then press until the apple appears)?
Post by: kbeartx on May 16, 2009, 01:03:31 PM
QUOTE(Buck @ May 16 2009, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a Mercury Pro 5.25 Combo CD-RW / DVD-RW External drive. Because My built in Optical Drive went South some time back. Camino & Safari Browsers keep crashing of late. I figured a clean install might fix this problem. What say you?
Optical drives need to include a special ROM chip in order to be able to boot an OS-X Installer disc, whether the drive is an external or internal.
Given the lack of bootup you report, I conclude that this drive is not Mac-bootable, and that's the reason why you cannot proceed with your planned Archive and Install.
Since that seems to be the situation you are in, and you tell us that your browsers keep crashing, I suggest that we focus on helping you to alleviate that situation, since you are unable to reinstall the OS w/o acquiring a different optical drive or getting assistance from someone w/ another Mac, a different optical drive, or an external Firewire hard drive [does this eMac have Firewire and/or support Target disc Mode?].
First thing I suggest is a test: go to System preferences>Accounts>Add New User [if you need specific details about doing this, post again]
Once created, Log in as this New User and try running the browsers [you won't have access to your bookmarks, but you will be able to see if the browsers crash as they do now, or do not]
Report back here with the results, [whether running in the New User account eliminates the browsers crashing or not] because that will determine how to proceed.
Kb
Post by: Paddy on May 16, 2009, 01:40:15 PM
If dumping the plist on the desktop seems to solve the problem, you can then drag it to the trash. I'd do the same with Camino's preference file; it can be found in the same User->Library->Preferences folder and it's called "org.mozilla.camino.plist"
Crashing browsers is NOT a good reason to reinstall the whole OS - there is something wonky with the browsers, not the operating system.
BTW - which of the OWC drives do you have: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/optical-drives/ ?
You should find out from OWC if it SHOULD be bootable - and if so, how. If it's both USB and Firewire and you've got it connected to the eMac via USB, then it won't be bootable. Try using the Firewire cable.
Post by: kbeartx on May 16, 2009, 04:18:38 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ May 16 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The other thing to do is to empty the Safari cache, which you can do under the Safari menu while running Safari.
If the browser crashes upon startup, this procedure will not work ...
QUOTE(Paddy @ May 16 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...which of the OWC drives do you have?
To satisfy my curiosity, I checked out the specs on several of the drives listed on the link to OWC, and NONE of the ones I looked at [I didn't look at all of them, but four or five] mentioned anything about being able to boot a Mac OS disc, while most of them DID include several PC burning apps, so until I get data to the contrary, I must assume that the drives are not designed with Macs in mind...
Kb
Post by: Buck on May 16, 2009, 11:02:25 PM
certain sites only.
Relaunch and things are fine till it comes up again.
Oh and I more than a few times have deleted the plist in prefs. Doesn't seem to help at all of course. That would make things to $#@! easy.
Post by: kbeartx on May 17, 2009, 04:22:15 PM
Point One: you say you're experiencing probs w/ both Safari and Camino. How about Firefox? It's been my main browser for quite a few years, and I know other TS-ers are happy w/ it as well...it could be a simple, straightforward solution to what otherwise might be a complicated troubleshooting process [to figure out why Safari and Camino are misbehaving].
Point Two: your machine might be memory-starved; 512Mb is really too little to effectively run OS-X, much less modern apps as well. I recommend that you at least double it, up to a full GB [1024Mb], and go for more if the Mac and your budget will support more.
Point Three: how are you fixed for free hard disk space? If you've got less than 10% of the total as unused space, this can cause all sorts of probs on a Mac. If this turns out to be the case, it's time to delete anything not needed and/or get a larger hard disk.
Kb
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 18, 2009, 02:42:41 PM
QUOTE("buck")
Running OSX 10.4.11./ Tiger. Install disk is V.10.4 Tiger, CD is Black w/ grey X.
still doesn't answer the question tacit raised. Is this the CD/DVD that came with the eMac? Since it is "grey," it is definitely not a retail install disk. It is a disk that came with some Mac. If that is not the eMac, it will probably never work/install anything on it. And whether or not your DVD/CD drive is working is a moot point, in this instance.
Post by: krissel on May 19, 2009, 04:13:34 AM
Which brings up the question of whether this is a DVD or is it only one of the many CDs that make up the Tiger install.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 19, 2009, 05:57:33 PM
QUOTE
The "CD is black". The X is grey so it is a retail disc.
Post by: Buck on May 23, 2009, 09:44:14 AM
Hey! It worked! I got to do the clean install.
This cleared up the reason for this post to begin with. No more excessive pinwheel spinning & browser crashing.
The system I replaced was a mess. As it was I couldn't even run APPLEJACK. It took me some 9, 10 hours to get things up and running properly.
All is well in MY world once again. Thanks to you all who jumped in to help. Kudos to you, Buck
P.S. Who is the one that said to leave the USB cable out.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 23, 2009, 03:12:10 PM
An important question to add to my list. 
Post by: Buck on May 23, 2009, 04:57:39 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 23 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe it was Paddy. Can we assume, then, that you had the drive connected via USB? An important question to add to my list.
An important question to add to my list. For lack of instructions, I had the Firewire and USB connected. Do not use the USB when booting to clean install. Firewire only.
I put a memo in the EX Drives storage container.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 23, 2009, 08:43:49 PM
Post by: kbeartx on May 24, 2009, 01:45:16 PM
QUOTE(Buck @ May 23 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...For lack of instructions, I had the Firewire and USB connected.
Do not use the USB when booting to clean install. Firewire only...
Do not use the USB when booting to clean install. Firewire only...
To clarify this point for any future readers of this thread, non-Intel Macs* cannot boot from external USB devices.
If the external drive contains a bootable system and connects via FIREWIRE, it CAN boot the Mac [either Intel or non-Intel] .
AFAIK, this is due to the 'boot load order' of the system's USB Drivers; as the Operating System begins to load its components during the boot process, the USB Drivers have not yet been loaded by the time the hardware 'looks' for the system software needed to complete the booting.
Kb
* starting in 2006, Apple began shipping Macs designed around Intel processors, and over the following year or so, converted its entire model lineup to Intel.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 24, 2009, 03:13:58 PM
It boots just fine, but it also would boot much faster than an Optical drive. If you don't have other USB devices connected to that drive, I see no reason to connect that to it at all. Even FireWire 400 will consistently be as fast or even faster than USB 2. 
Post by: Mayo on May 24, 2009, 03:58:15 PM
QUOTE
Macs cannot boot to external USB devices.
This is simply not true when talking about an Intel Mac.
And as Buck discovered, it is not a good idea to connect to an external drive using the USB 2.0 and Firewire interfaces simultaneously. Some folks try it thinking they will gain faster data transfer speeds but it doesn't work and it can cause more serious problems than Buck experienced...
Post by: kbeartx on May 25, 2009, 03:34:20 PM
QUOTE(Mayo @ May 24 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Macs cannot boot to external USB devices.
This is simply not true when talking about an Intel Mac.
Yes, I forgot about this. Thanks for pointing out my omission. I'm gonna amend my 'summary' post above.
Kb