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Welcome to Techsurvivors => Tech => Topic started by: Paddy on March 14, 2010, 12:05:52 PM

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Paddy on March 14, 2010, 12:05:52 PM

Great article:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/03/11/f...-web-standards/

QUOTE

What Ozer should do instead is present the plain truth that Flash is a terrible platform for creating web content because it violates everything the web was designed to do: openly share content using openly documented specifications that any vendor can implement in competitive ways that advance the state of the art in hyperlinked, multimedia communications. Flash smothers the web with closed binaries that require Adobe’s interest to play back.

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: kimmer on March 14, 2010, 01:32:43 PM

I truly hate flash. I'm so tired of onlineshopping sites where everything - the buttons, the images, the pricing info - is all balled up in a flash presentation.

I bumped into a flash prob the other day. One of my cousins has a very talented son and I went to see his web site. EVERYTHING is flash. Since I have flash turned off, I right clicked to enable it for his site. Up pops this note FUNCTION DISABLED! How rude. I understand that he doesn’t want folks to steal his stuff, but there are better ways. Can't tell mom or son, though. I dropped a nice note -- and it was very nice -- and told them that I was having problems navigating due to my flash blocker - and they told me off. So I guess I'll not see his art work. Guess I won't consider buying any either.

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Paddy on March 14, 2010, 04:07:22 PM

They told you off?? Sounds like relatives you can live without!

Are you using ClickToFlash in Safari or Flashblock in FF?

I don't have Flashblock installed in FF right now - it's not my primary browser.

(If you PM me the site URL, I'd be interested to see how it behaves in Safari)

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: kimmer on March 14, 2010, 10:02:10 PM

Yeah, I can easily do without them. Thank heavens they live over 2,000 miles away.

I was using Flashblock in FF.

I'll pm you the site and you can look.

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 14, 2010, 10:42:17 PM

I notice that a lot of people don't see my massive helpings of tact, humor and helpfulness in many of my highly respected and well reasoned critiques of their work. It is especially noticeable when discussing the work of their offspring.

I'm sure they just missed your subtle but sweet humor.

Kind of reminds me of a phrase in a song...can't remember the name...I'll look it up tomorrow. Anyway the thought is about "all those relatives we've been avoiding all those years!"

Got any of those?!!!

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: krissel on March 15, 2010, 01:16:46 AM

More about why Flash won't really work on iPhone, iPod and iPad... the multi-touch UI that Apple enforces.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/02/20/a...cant-use-flash/

An older article:

QUOTE

lavalight Says:

Tue, Jun 17, 08 at 10:03 PM
People are missing the point of the article, I think. The point is not “technical challenges” that can eventually be overcome, the point is Apple is taking steps to establish multi-touch as the true and rightful successor to the mouse-and-desktop interface.

For that to occur, Apple is strategically preventing anything that had the potential to break the multi-touch experience. You CANNOT rely on Adobe or any other developer to avoid the scenario of having double-tap launch on app for some apps while it zooms in other apps. Double tap ALWAYS needs to be zoom and Flash on iphone would by default break this because Flash developers are going to develop from a WIMP frame of mind.

By enforcing the use of Apple-only APIs, Apple ensures multi-touch is not only pristine, but practical. Flash has absolutely no value in establishing the multi-touch paradigm – in fact, it’s highly detrimental. For this reason ALONE, Flash will never be on iPhone.

Adobe and pro-Flash pundits are like amateur chess players trying to convince the world they can win a chess match if they only capturing the other guy’s Queen with their Bishop NOW. Apple is Kasparov thinking 10 moves ahead and systematically taking apart the other side, piece by piece, unperturbed by all the commotion of spectators.

Which is to say, Apple is not trapped by the dogma of established thinking.

http://counternotions.com/2008/06/17/flash-iphone/

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Highmac on March 15, 2010, 04:18:52 AM

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 15 2010, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of reminds me of a phrase in a song... about "all those relatives we've been avoiding all those years!"

Got any of those?!!!

I do remember a Cold War joke: A visitor to Czechoslovakia asked one of the residents whether he regarded the Russians as family or friends. "Family, of course..... After all, you can choose your friends....."

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: kimmer on March 15, 2010, 11:27:17 AM

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 14 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyway the thought is about "all those relatives we've been avoiding all those years!"

Got any of those?!!!

Apparently I have 5 of them.

QUOTE(Highmac @ Mar 15 2010, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Paddy on March 15, 2010, 11:55:51 AM

As I responded to Kimmer, after looking at the site in question with Safari and Click to Flash (worked fine - just a heck of a lot of clicking!) there is no earthly reason that the site needed to be done in Flash in the first place. It's an essentially static site - there is one short video (which doesn't have to be Flash either) and the entire thing could be done very nicely and far more accessibly in HTML with a bit of javascript/PHP.

It annoys me no end that way too many people use Flash for completely spurious reasons. The silliest site I've seen yet is this one:

http://www.patinagroup.com/home.php

The Flash is used for TEXT - simply because they wanted to use fonts that aren't "web safe" (ie: on every Mac or PC on the planet). It's completely insane - and completely unnecessary.

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: chriskleeman on March 15, 2010, 03:11:39 PM

QUOTE(Paddy @ Mar 15 2010, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It annoys me no end that way too many people use Flash for completely spurious reasons. The silliest site I've seen yet is this one:

http://www.patinagroup.com/home.php

The Flash is used for TEXT - simply because they wanted to use fonts that aren't "web safe" (ie: on every Mac or PC on the planet). It's completely insane - and completely unnecessary.

Too bad, these two guys in charge of the Patina Group are two very big heavy-weights in the industry!

But well, you know, maybe the food has more "Flash" than substance?

Chris

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 15, 2010, 03:57:01 PM

QUOTE

The Flash is used for TEXT - simply because they wanted to use fonts that aren't "web safe" (ie: on every Mac or PC on the planet). It's completely insane - and completely unnecessary.

I've seen that, also and decided to see what and why. I assume that what you are seeing is some version if the Inman Font Replacement method.

I've also been looking for ways to use something besides the ~dozen "web-safe" fonts, mainly for headings and/or drop caps, but without resorting to Flash®. There's a lot of info on using Flash, of course. Others claim javascript is the only way. Some say both technologies are needed to be reliable, usually forgetting that many have both javascript and Flash® turned off/disabled.

I decided to test/play with the few free embedded fonts that are available and use the @font-face CSS property. If there is room on one's server for the usual three different formats needed, and most of your audience is on DSL or better, this seems quit usable. Even Exploder has been able to use this function since version 6. And newer browsers are mostly already CSS3 capable, anyway.

The biggest problems are:

The first problem is basically up to the font foundries, although there are now several small font designers that realize the potential of getting one's work seen.

The second problem has been completely and very conveniently solved by <Font Squirrel> and for free, of course!

The biggest 'trick' is getting the CSS set up correctly so that Exploder gets 'fed' first, without crashing the browser... Here's a couple of sites that explain and demonstrate how to use this method that claims to support ~97%+ browsers.

Paul Irish

Nice Web Type.com

legalities

Free Fonts for @font-face

hosted fonts

fontspring.com

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Paddy on March 15, 2010, 04:19:19 PM

Interesting - I hadn't realized how much more developed the options were for using other fonts since last looking at all this a few years ago. I may fool around a bit - on my own site first, and then, if all goes well, in clients' sites. Sure as heck beats Flash! And Font Squirrel sure is a handy thing!

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 15, 2010, 10:09:57 PM

Of course, like Flash, embedding can be abused/overused, also...usually by people using it for huge amounts of body text and/or using proprietary fonts without permission.

This may be a good indication of how well competition is for real innovation?

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 19, 2010, 07:09:50 PM

Speaking of frustrating things...you might want to take a look at the next version of <Exploder>. One of these daze, MS may actually have an up-to-date, standards compliant browser! Certainly enough people have shown them what one looks like.

In other CSS news, apparently <Opera 10.5 ~~ßeta~~> returns curved boxes to its capabilities.

CSS

HTML

http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/TestSuite/WICD_CDR_WP1/

http://www.w3.org/TR/WICD/#param-elements

Now around 50% of the (new) browsers out there can handle CSS3 (still in development, of course) pretty much completely.

<More info on IE 9>.

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: krissel on March 31, 2010, 06:39:27 AM

Influence of the iPad may accelerate changes on the web re Flash:

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/03/how...-without-flash/

Title: Fraud science used to promote Flash performance over Web standards
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 31, 2010, 08:27:28 AM

Ah, yes, the always convincing, "I'm-a-programmer-so-I-know-more-than-you,-therefore-sit down,-shut-up-and-just-accept-what-I-choose-to-'give'-you" argument. Works every time.

I wonder if that fella has a small investment in having people use Flash?

Who would have thought 100 years ago that such passion would be generated by machines operating on particles we can't even see, touch, smell? Perhaps it's that "mysterious" nature that helps create that aura of power? And we all know that power means being right, and who wants to be wrong? A "basic" human desire, I suppose...sad...