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Welcome to Techsurvivors => Tech => Topic started by: Bill-R on March 25, 2010, 01:52:49 PM

Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 25, 2010, 01:52:49 PM: Hi There -

First of all - long time no see! I have been away for a while because of some life issues and just kinda fell out of touch with my normal routine. But I am trying to get back to some sort of normal life again. I always loved to come here to read up and see what everybody was doing and to lend a helping hand if I could.

Now on to my problem!

I have a PowerBook 1.25 with 1.5 gigs of RAM. The video chip went out on the Logic board and I was able to get a different board and installed it last night. It was intimidating at first but actually it was pretty simple. Everything went great and I also installed a new Hard Drive (250 gig). Once all the new goodies were installed I put in the Tiger install disc and then installed the OS and all went as expected. I rebooted and then welcome sequence ran through and I started answering the new computer questions and then the screen flickered and turned gray with a dark gray box came up that said I needed to restart, this was restated in about 4 other languages in the same box. I restarted three times and it kept coming up to this same screen. SO I put the Tiger disk back in and it runs fine off of the that disc. I am not sure what I did or what the problem might be. Has anybody here had this problem?

Thanks for any help.

Bill
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Paddy on March 25, 2010, 02:34:46 PM: Hi Bill - welcome back to TS!

What you are seeing is a kernel panic - which can be caused by hardware issues. Since you've switched out the logic board, that would be my first suspect. Did you replace the logic board with EXACTLY the same one? Where did you buy it?

Did you switch out any RAM? Have you made sure that the RAM is seated properly? (I'm assuming you had to remove it and reinstall it when replacing the logic board - it could be something as simple as badly seated RAM)

Or...there may be something wrong with the hard drive. Try repairing it using Disk Utility (on your install disk - go to Utilities) and let us know what it says. Don't bother with "Verify" BTW - just hit Repair. If there's nothing to repair it will just do the verification anyway.

If the HD checks out ok, you could try reinstalling the OS.

Unfortunately, since you can't seem to get it to start up, it's impossible to see the logs to see if you can isolate the cause. Have you tried starting up in Safe Mode? (Worth a try, though if it's a hardware issue, that may not help)

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1455

Kernel panic info: http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/kernelpanics.html - there are a number of other hardware related possibilities, including a loose/improperly installed Airport card if you have one...
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 25, 2010, 02:45:29 PM: Hi Paddy

It is good to be back. I have been thinking about it for a while but you know how it goes - once you get a problem it helps to get me motivated to come back and see whats up.

Yes - I did some searching and found that it is a Kernal Panic. I do believe it is the correct logic board. I got it from a Mac repair guy in Seattle that I have used for other sources and have had friends send their stuff to him and buy other Mac gear from him. He is very good at what he does and I trust him. However it is a used board and there could be a problem. I did not put in new RAM and the Hard Drive is new and not used. I did run Disk Utility on it and it came back normal. I decided to reformat it and plan to try a new install of Tiger later today. I do know that the PRAM battery is dead and my buddy did not have any in stock so I did not replace that. I was wondering if there might be a problem with data in PRAM not matching up with what it remembers the old LBoard to be. (ie serial number and such)

I will let you know how the second OS install goes.

Thanks!

Bill
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 25, 2010, 03:20:19 PM: While never a first choice, you should be able to get a pram battery from a local Radio Shack or any place dealing in the widest assortment of batteries. And I highly suspect that replacing that battery will solve the problem. OTOH, I'm not sure why it would start up at all with the Installer disk with a dead/missing pram battery! It's certainly cheaper and faster than sending the logic board back.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: chriskleeman on March 25, 2010, 03:35:47 PM: Hey Bill, welcome back!

IAW with the old throttle-jockey about the PRAM battery, but you will probably want to take it one step further and reset the PRAM as well once the battery is installed. Option-Command-P-R keys (all four) at startup, until you get three chimes, then release the keys and the computer will reset and should boot up. That should make the new logic board recognize the RAM properly. And Paddy has also (of course!) illuminated some things you may need to do as well.

I'm sure someone will be along to spank me thoroughly if that's not good advice!

Best,

Chris
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 25, 2010, 04:01:05 PM: Yep I agree with the thought of not having a good PRAM battery not being a good thing. However the problem is a bit more difficult than meets the eye. In this particular series of PowerBooks the PRAm battery sits inside a "daughter board" which lives on top of the optical drive. ( I think it is just glued there) The actual battery is a coin battery and is no longer made and even when it was I am told that it was not sold separate from the daughter board. SO you can can get them now but they are, at last check, $99 and they are at least 4 to 5 years old. So it is highly possible that you could buy a dead one anyway. There is a way to get 3 batteries that are similar in size and when stacked up equals the proper power rating needed but I forget what the model number are for the three batteries needed are. I plan to research this and try this fix once I get it figured out.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Texas Mac Man on March 25, 2010, 08:50:32 PM: Don't know if you are familiar with the IFixIt site. They have illustrated repair instructions. I believe this is the one for your PB.
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Device/PowerBo...12%22_1-1.5_GHz

Kernel panics are usually caused by a hardware problem; frequently RAM, a USB device or a Firewire device. Do you have any external devices connected? How many RAM modules are installed? You could try removing one & see if you still get a KP. If you do, swap modules & see if you get a KP.

Do you have an Apple Hardware Test disc? Running the Apple Hardware Test in Loop Mode is an excellent troubleshooting step for finding intermittent hardware problems. It is especially useful when troubleshooting intermittent kernel panics. If Loop Mode is supported by the version of the Apple Hardware Test you are using, you run the Extended Test in Loop Mode by pressing Control-L before starting the test. Looping On should appear in the right window. Then click the Extended Test button.The test will run continuously until a problem is found. If a problem is found, the test will cease to loop, indicating the problem it found. If the test fails, be sure to write down the exact message associated with the failure.In some cases, RAM problems did not show up until nearly 40 loops, so give it a good run.

May be a solution on one of these links.

What's a "kernel panic"? (Mac OS X)

Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

Mac OS X Kernel Panic FAQ

Resolving Kernel Panics

Avoiding and eliminating Kernel panics

12-Step Program to Isolate Freezes and/or Kernel Panics
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 28, 2010, 03:47:29 AM: Thanks Macman this s good stuff. I have had to work the last few days and have no had a chance to do much work on this. However I did discover that it seems to have somehing
to do with the airport card. If I take it out everything boots fine. If I pi
put it in I get the kernal panic. I am planning to open the case
top to see if my ribbon cables are all seated properly or if they are damaged. I have a second card and it has the same result when I install it. I will report back with my findings.

Oh yeah one question. I do not have the original install disk set for this
PowerBook, I got it used and it did not come with them. I do have he hadware test disc that came with an older iBook but somebody told me that these discs are computer specific and only work in the machines they came with. Is that true?
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: krissel on March 28, 2010, 04:17:32 AM: Hi Bill, seems there is an ongoing problem with some airport cards and the Powerbooks. It may just be an improperly set card or cable but it may be more.

Do you have an Airport Extreme base? Some people had kernel panics if the Mac was set to wirelessly connect to the base.
Seems to be a conflict with Tiger. Upgrading to Leopard solved some peoples problem.
Others replaced their cards.

Here are some links to check out:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.j...45&tstart=0

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?sto...030828183927421

http://discussions.info.apple.com/thread.j...7&tstart=45

http://archive.macfixitforums.com/ubbthrea...p/topics/448585

And yes, each Apple Hardware Test is specific to the type and model of Mac with which it was distributed.

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/aht.html

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/aht.html
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 28, 2010, 08:53:19 PM: Thanks for the information Krissel. I think this is my problem. I am running 10.4.11. I opened the case on the powerbook (15" not 12") today to verify that all the cables are connected and they are. It seems that there is a problem when the airport card is installed take the card out and no problems. According to all the information you sent me the solution is to update to Leopard. I do not have leopard so I am out of luck. I had Leopard on it before the replacement of the Logic board and new hard drive and I wanted to stay with Tiger this time because it runs a bit faster and I am becoming more impatient in my old age. I guess I am just out of luck and may have to upgrade to Leopard. I can still use my computer but how useful is a laptop that you can't connect to the internet without a cable.

GRRR!
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: MamaMoose on March 28, 2010, 09:37:58 PM: Bill,

Welcome back. I agree with others in that there is a high probability your problem is with the dead PRAM battery. I believe the system can't boot without the battery. It doesn't make any sense that there is no replacement for the original battery. Check with Google as there are many new batteries that are avialable to replace old discontinued batteries. If you have the spec for the battery, The new battery should have the same voltage, current draw, and size. As long as current draw is larger than the spec you should be OK. Somewhere the battery specs are available for the battery that went into your Mac. Also, check with the Apple Forums - someone there may have an answer for you.

MamaMoose
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 29, 2010, 05:26:38 AM: Well Mamamoose's post caused me to rethink the whole dead pram battery thing. Here is what I know from past research on this battery. As long as the main battery is charged or the AC adapter is plugged in the pram battery does not matter. That being said I have no idea if it is true or not. So I got to thinking that the folks at TS know what they are talking about that is why I am asking the questions I am asking. If it is true that my pram battery is dead then why does the system boot when the airport card is NOT installed and then not boot when the card is installed? So dug out my meter and opened the case top once again, pulled out the little USB card that hoods the PRAM battery and put the probes to it. Well to my surprise it showed the battery at 4.6 v. Not to shabby for a 3.6 v battery that I thought to be dead. I am a little puzzled by this because in the past if I let my main battery go to zero and not have my adapter plugged in then I have to work like mad to get the thing to boot and when it does all the date and time is wrong just as if
the Pram is dead. Now that is a mystery. Although in
my searching I have seen mixed opinions on other forums regarding weather or not the pram battery gets reacharged or not - so maybe it does.

So while I was inside the case I decided to install the old hard drive, the one with Leopard, and the sysem behaved the same way. It would boot fine with the airport card not installed and not boot with it
in.

I guess I may just have to buy a USB wireless adapter and forget about using an airport
card at all. Has anybody used these and if so any recommendations?
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Paddy on March 29, 2010, 10:44:49 AM: If both the Airport cards that you have cause the kernel panics, I think it's a safe bet that there is either something wrong with both Airport cards (not especially likely, but not beyond the realm of possibility) OR there is something wrong with the cabling/logic board attachment for those cards.

So, the USB adapter sounds like a good solution:

http://www.afterthemac.com/

Also - there should be some PCMCIA network adapters around too - maybe hard to find Mac-compatible ones now, but that would save your USB port for something else.

http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/produ...at=0&page=1 (bit expensive...)
http://www.welovemacs.com/appcwipr.html (also expensive)

OK...USB may be the way to go - certainly cheaper!!

Sounds like the PRAM battery is fine, BTW. Dead PRAM batteries don't cause kernel panics as far as I know.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 29, 2010, 11:47:22 AM: Thanks Paddy - that USB adapter link is one that I looked at. I am really hoping to find somebody that has an adapter like this and can tell me if they work or not at this point I can't afford to put any more money into this machine if it is not going to do what I need it to do.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Paddy on March 29, 2010, 12:36:02 PM: I doubt that there are many (if any) using the USB Wifi option, Bill - all the recent laptops have the Wifi card installed by default, and most with the older ones where it was optional had them installed originally too. Usually if the Airport card dies, another one will work - so your situation is fairly rare. And unless you actually try the USB Wifi connector on your Powerbook, you won't know if it works or not since the actual reason for the Airport cards not working hasn't been established.

I wouldn't worry about ordering from AftertheMac:

QUOTE
AftertheMac.com provides a 6 months no questions asked 100% money back on any return if you are unsatisfied in any way.

We also provide a minimum 1 year replacement warranty on all of our products.

Pretty low risk if you ask me.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 29, 2010, 05:56:21 PM: Just a WAG but it's been a while since I've 'messed' with an Airport Card...it's usually pretty hard to insert most cards/chips incorrectly and you only have two choices with a card...and you sound more than adequately capable of inserting the card the right way...but...but...since both cards seem to cause the same problem...you might want to check that the inside of the socket does not have any bent/broken/corroded contacts and, just on the of chance, make sure you are inserting the cards correctly and fully.

"Repeatedly doing the same thing, while expecting different results, makes a man unhealthy and unwealthy...fast."
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: krissel on March 30, 2010, 06:40:12 AM: Oh, where is my brain? I just remembered trying to install an Airport card in my sister's iBook G4 and having the same problem as you. Booted fine without the card, no boot at all with it in. So I gave up and she now uses a USB adapter which works just fine.

BTW, I sent the card to George who gave it a try in a laptop with no luck so it was probably NG.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 30, 2010, 10:09:09 PM: QUOTE
Oh, where is my brain?
Sorry, you must have posted in the wrong forum. TS is for technical info only. Personal problems are better discussed in our private forum called "<Where am I Now and How Did I Get Here?!>"
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on March 30, 2010, 10:30:38 PM: Thanks Krissel that is good info.

I just ordered the n150 USB wireless adapter from afterthemac.com and I think it will be great. The customer servce is top notch and I can't wait till it gets here. I will keep you all informed when it comes in.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: Bill-R on April 04, 2010, 03:25:50 AM: Well - I am the proud owner of an afterthemac.com USB wireless adapter. I purchase the n150 with the base and I am very happy with it. The range on it is incredible and it is much much faster than my airport card ever was. The software control panel for it is not as nice as the airport and there no status icon in the menu bar so there are a few things that are different enough that I kinda don't really care for. However the overall experience is better than with the airport so I will just have to get used to it.

The service at afterthemac.com is very good - some of the best I have worked with if a long time.

- It sure is nice to get this PowerBook back running again.

BTW how hot is too hot for the CPU??? I installed this logic board myself and I am a little worried that I may not have put enough arctic silver between the CPU and the heat sink. Right now my istat widget says it is 112 degrees.
Title: You need to Restart your computer
Post by: krissel on April 04, 2010, 04:11:36 AM: If that is Fahrenheit, that is OK. It can go up to 150ºF safely, a bit higher for short periods. Much depends on how many and which processes are running of course.