Post by: sokukodo on July 10, 2010, 08:53:26 PM
Post by: Highmac on July 11, 2010, 02:30:10 AM
QUOTE
Rucksack: a large bag, usually having two straps and a supporting frame, carried on the back and often used by climbers, campers, etc. US and Canadian name backpack. [from German, literally: back sack]
So it seems they're just being multilingual
Post by: krissel on July 11, 2010, 02:37:32 AM
Rucksacks are backpacks but maybe not all backpacks could be called rucksacks.
Got that?
Post by: Highmac on July 11, 2010, 03:10:20 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Jul 11 2010, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rucksacks are backpacks but maybe not all backpacks could be called rucksacks.
Got that?
Got that?
Really, it's far too early on a Sunday morning....
Post by: krissel on July 11, 2010, 03:41:58 AM
Post by: dboh on July 11, 2010, 06:15:52 AM
Post by: sokukodo on July 11, 2010, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on July 11, 2010, 02:37:52 PM
BTW, kriss, what is a "contemporary...color?"
QUOTE
more contemporary in looks, material, color
I was under the impression that all colors have been around since the beginning of time, if not longer. Are you saying that there are more recent, contemporary colors that were not know dozens/hundreds/thousands/millions or years ago? 
BTW, sokukodo, successful as L.L. Bean is, they do not, yet, have control of the 'American' language... "rotfl:
Post by: sokukodo on July 11, 2010, 06:00:14 PM
Post by: gunug on July 11, 2010, 08:55:24 PM
QUOTE
I think you're correct, Xbd!
I have always had a belief, disputing what L.L. Bean might think, a rucksack has no frame but a backpack "might" and probably does have a frame. What is a kit-bag? I know about all the other slang used in this song XABD!
QUOTE
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile,
While you’ve a lucifer to light your fag,
Smile, boys, that’s the style.
What’s the use of worrying?
It never was worth while, so
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack_Up_Your_...our_Old_Kit-Bag
And smile, smile, smile,
While you’ve a lucifer to light your fag,
Smile, boys, that’s the style.
What’s the use of worrying?
It never was worth while, so
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack_Up_Your_...our_Old_Kit-Bag
I love the Dutch version of the song; not because I can read the lyrics but it "sounded" fantastic when I heard it at the Liberty Memorial (Kansas City WWI Museum):
Pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je lak, fluit man en 't is uit!
Waarom zou je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit
This is copied from the Wikipedia website; I'd like the other lyrics but I'll search for them as well!
Post by: gunug on July 11, 2010, 09:39:52 PM
Package already you look in your togs pocket and whistle, whistle, whistle!
To all difficulties have you lake, whistles man and ' t is from!
Why you would lament, it does not help you,
Therefore: package already you look in your togs pocket and whistle, whistle, whistle
This is Babelfish Dutch to English for:
Pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je lak, fluit man en 't is uit!
Waarom zou je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit
I wonder what would happen if I translated English to Dutch again on the same page (with apologies to Dutch speakers):
Aan allen hebben de moeilijkheden u meer, fluitjesmens en ' t is van!
Waarom u zou betreuren, helpt het u niet, Daarom:
pakket reeds u in uw plunjezak kijkt en het
Oddly enough "nevermind" in Dutch is "nevermind" in English!
If you translate the entire webpage and cut out what the above says you get this in DoubleDutch:
Nevermind: Ik moet weg al mijn problemen in een rugzak inpakken omdat zij voor mijn kitbag te groot zijn! whistling.gif
Het pakket reeds u kijkt in uw plunjezak en het fluitje, fluit, fluit!
Aan allen hebben de moeilijkheden u meer, zijn de fluitjesmens en 't van!
Waarom u zou betreuren, helpt het u niet,
Daarom: pakket reeds u in uw plunjezak kijkt en het fluitje, fluit, fluit
Dit is Babelfish het Nederlands aan het Engels voor:
Al van Pak je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je LAK, fluit is de mens Engels 't uit!
Zou van Waarom je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit
Ik ben wat benieuwd zou gebeuren als ik het Engels opnieuw aan het Nederlands op de zelfde pagina (met verontschuldigingen aan Nederlandse sprekers) vertaalde:
Het rietu van Het pakket kijkt in uw plunjezak en het fluitje, fluit, fluit!
Aan Allen hebben DE moeilijkheden u meer, fluitjesmens is Engels 't bestelwagen!
Uzou van Waarom betreuren, helpt het u niet, Daarom:
pakket rietu in uw plunjezak kijkt en het
Vreemd genoeg genoeg „nevermind“ in het Nederlands is „nevermind“ in het Engels! And to add to that comment Babelfish seems to work better now than in earlier days. Maybe Yahoo has been a good influence!
Post by: krissel on July 11, 2010, 09:49:44 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jul 11 2010, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...What a minefield so many seem unaware of entering!
BTW, kriss, what is a "contemporary...color?"
BTW, kriss, what is a "contemporary...color?"
QUOTE
more contemporary in looks, material, color
I was under the impression that all colors have been around since the beginning of time, if not longer. Are you saying that there are more recent, contemporary colors that were not know dozens/hundreds/thousands/millions or years ago? Actually, yes.
I doubt seriously that our prehistoric ancestors used orange, magenta, purple, chartreuse, turquoise, etc. in the coloration of their carry bags. Me thinks they were more of the animal fur colors as you see on this page of "rucksacks".
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/506221?nav=fn-ln
On the other hand, these pages of backpack styles, materials and colors are contemporary IMO.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/506217?nav=fn-ln
Remember, the title of this thread is "A Question of Semantics?"
Post by: gunug on July 11, 2010, 11:19:52 PM
Post by: Highmac on July 12, 2010, 01:09:32 AM
QUOTE(dboh @ Jul 11 2010, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
David Nicholls (who seems to be either British or Scottish)...
Since we're on semantics.... Saying someone is "either British or Scottish" is a bit like saying someone is "either American or Californian"
The Britain bit of the UK (full title The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So all Scots, Welsh and English are British – whether or not some of them like that fact So the Scots are unlikely to object if you call them British. Just don't, whatever you do, call them English!
Here endeth today's lesson
Post by: krissel on July 12, 2010, 03:22:59 AM
Like my rucksacks/backpacks ditty (there's another term for it)....
All Scots are British but not all Brits are Scottish.
Post by: kimmer on July 12, 2010, 03:44:14 AM
QUOTE(Highmac @ Jul 11 2010, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Since we're on semantics.... Saying someone is "either British or Scottish" is a bit like saying someone is "either American or Californian" The Britain bit of the UK (full title The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So all Scots, Welsh and English are British – whether or not some of them like that fact
So the Scots are unlikely to object if you call them British. Just don't, whatever you do, call them English!
Here endeth today's lesson
The Britain bit of the UK (full title The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So all Scots, Welsh and English are British – whether or not some of them like that fact So the Scots are unlikely to object if you call them British. Just don't, whatever you do, call them English!
Here endeth today's lesson
A few weeks ago we were having coffee at a local diner, and there were only 2 other tables with customers. A 'mannerless-local-guy' occupied one table, and a family of 4 was seated at the another table. We all struck up a conversation, and as they were tourists they asked about places to visit. They spoke with the loveliest Scottish brogue (is this the correct way to say this?) -- and I could have listened to them talk all day. In the midst of sharing tidbits about places to visit, the 'mannerless-local-guy' said, "Say, are you Brits?" To which the lady rather icily replied, "No. We're Scottish. We live in ..." (and they named their town which I've now forgotten).
The 'mannerless-local-guy' then said, "Well, I thought all you folks were Brits."
Boy-oh-boy, I could have made ice cubes in that room about then.
The Scottish gent was very gracious and shared a brief history lesson with the 'mannerless-local-guy'.
'Twas an interesting exchange.
Post by: gunug on July 12, 2010, 04:20:02 AM
Post by: Highmac on July 12, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
QUOTE(kimmer @ Jul 12 2010, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the midst of sharing tidbits about places to visit, the 'mannerless-local-guy' said, "Say, are you Brits?" To which the lady rather icily replied, "No. We're Scottish. We live in ..." (and they named their town which I've now forgotten).
The 'mannerless-local-guy' then said, "Well, I thought all you folks were Brits."
Boy-oh-boy, I could have made ice cubes in that room about then.
The 'mannerless-local-guy' then said, "Well, I thought all you folks were Brits."
Boy-oh-boy, I could have made ice cubes in that room about then.
In New York we found ourselves sitting next to a couple from New Jersey and said hello. "Say, are you guys English? We're so pleased to meet you!" Frankly, it would have been churlish to respond to such a warm welcome with "Well, actually I'm Scottish", and we just went along with it, until the conversation turned in a way that made it easy to mention in passing that while Caroline is English I'm a Scot by birth. And that actually added to a very pleasant meeting.
Brit is not bad - we use it ourselves over here. We even have The Brit Awards for pop music.
Post by: kimmer on July 12, 2010, 02:14:07 PM
I don't think these folks were faking their accent, and none of us were speaking with a fake brogue. Neil, great story.
This family was very gracious and Sneakers and I had a great chat with them. Personally the 'mannerless-local-guy' was annoying in more ways than one. I wanted to shout, "We're really not all 'ugly Americans'!"
Post by: gunug on July 12, 2010, 02:57:20 PM
Post by: dboh on July 12, 2010, 06:30:14 PM
QUOTE(Highmac @ Jul 12 2010, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So the Scots are unlikely to object if you call them British. Just don't, whatever you do, call them English!
Here endeth today's lesson
Here endeth today's lesson
Sorry, it's the ex-history major in me, misusing the word "Brit," and I apologize for having conflated Brit with English Having known a few Scotsmen over the years (and programmers at that), I know very well that they don't consider themselves to be English. But because I found that the author was using both Scottish and British expressions (therefore not being sure where he was from), I couldn't be sure what he was referring to as a "rucksack."
Post by: kimmer on July 12, 2010, 11:37:39 PM
QUOTE(gunug @ Jul 12 2010, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kimmer, I wasn't accusing you of anything; this is about human nature and I don't think I'm alone in slipping into another accent.
Thanks for 'splaining, gunug. Sorry I misunderstood. As to slipping into other accents ... years ago I spent 2 days in South Carolina visiting friends and went home to Chicago with an accent that drove my grandma nuts. She finally yelled at me to knock it off. I wasn't even aware I was speakin' Southern as she put it. Now if I spend an hour on the phone with family from Chicago, my twang is back. If I hang around the Canadian relatives, I'm very quickly sounding like them; and yes, I could easily have started imitating that Scottish family. So, no, you're not alone.
Post by: sokukodo on July 13, 2010, 04:51:53 PM
"...years ago I spent 2 days in South Carolina visiting friends and went home to Chicago with an accent that drove my grandma nuts." ... As a South Carolinian, I must say that it's y'all that have the accent!
Post by: sokukodo on July 14, 2010, 09:37:36 AM
Post by: gunug on July 16, 2010, 11:28:07 PM
Rucksack if you Google it: http://www.google.com/search?q=Rucksack&am...lient=firefox-a
Kit Bag: http://www.google.com/images?q=kit%20bag&a...l=en&tab=wi
Backpack for good measure: http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=e...ack&spell=1