Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 29, 2010, 02:13:04 PM
There are two switches in this particular place, one for the fan and one for the fan lights. Since the fan lights switch wasn't causing any problem, I deduced that it must be the only other switch that was falling apart. You may notice my logical skills are improving with age!
So, I go buy a new 15 amp single-pole switch and start removing the old one.Now, if you've ever watched an electrician wiring a house (or even replacing a switch, you'll remember that they absolutely detest using the normal screw terminals found on most switches and receptacles. Instead, they like to strip a half inch of insulation and stick the bare wire into little holes that have one-way friction/springs inside. That's much quicker than un-screwing the terminal and then tightening them. And 99% of the time, it works just fine. However, in this case, as soon as the "bad" switch was disconnected to the mounting box, the common wire going to the other switch popped right out of its hole! Part of the problem, OWO*. Naturally. I put the now freed wire on the screw terminal of its switch, no more lose wiring!
But not before noting that the reason the wire came free was that the plastic around that hole had cracked and the spring-friction holder no longer did its job. But the screw terminal still looked secure.Next, I replaced the "bad" switch which displayed absolutely no external signs of failure.
I flipped the circuit breaker back on and turned on the fan. Now, I turned the fan OFF...still with a "POP!" 
Could it be the other switch? I swapped the old "bad" one for the one that had a known but very minor problem. I re-powered the circuit and went through the ON/OFF routine. Yep, it still produced the "POP!"
The fan is as old as the switches, could it's never used speed selector/ON/OFF switch be the problem? It only costs a few dollars to find out (along with some fidgeting with the three globes and light bulbs...). And, the answer is?! Nope! Still getting the "POP." Plus, even though I removed the wires from the old switch and inserted it in the corresponding hole of the new one, we now have only a two-speed fan, instead of three speeds...oh well, it's not arcing (or even smoking! And we turn the thing ON/OFF with the wall switch, anyway).Mind you, the light switch and the power circuit for the fan and the computer stuff are on two completely searate circuits. This made things even more confusing for me, anyway...unless there was possibly a grounding problem. I even powered the speaker off the UPS hat powered the Mac. Still no change.
Finally, I started rerouting the small jungle of wires behind the iMac (That's really the reason they make the monitor so wide, you know). Guess what!!! The induced noise was from two or more wires being too close to one another. Probably the cable from the iMac to the input of the speaker system. It is quite likely to be unshielded and was acting as an antenna, along with the other wiring back there. Cheapest fix I've ever done, clean up the wiring runs!
Oh yeah, about three weeks ago, I moved the transformer brick up on the desk and nearer most of those wires...
* Old Wise One
Post by: gunug on September 30, 2010, 01:20:22 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 30, 2010, 01:33:57 PM
Post by: Reiddm on September 30, 2010, 01:50:42 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Sep 29 2010, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now, if you've ever watched an electrician wiring a house (or even replacing a switch, you'll remember that they absolutely detest using the normal screw terminals found on most switches and receptacles. Instead, they like to strip a half inch of insulation and stick the bare wire into little holes that have one-way friction/springs inside. That's much quicker than un-screwing the terminal and then tightening them. And 99% of the time, it works just fine. However, in this case, as soon as the "bad" switch was disconnected to the mounting box, the common wire going to the other switch popped right out of its hole! Part of the problem, OWO*.
* Old Wise One
* Old Wise One
Any good electrician will not use the hole, they will ONLY use screws, you put enough load on a switch that is not securely attached to the wire can develop enough heat to cause a loose connection, lighting and fans do not cause much load, but any electrician I've worked for and with will NOT use the hole! I've done a few fixes on new houses that when the switch or plug were pushed in the box stress on the wire to device might fracture the hole area and cause a loose connection!
My first laptop (a pismo) was bartered due to a switch not installed properly, once the wires were attached using the screws all problems were fixed! The back of the switch at the hole was broken!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on September 30, 2010, 02:52:46 PM
And I don't cloak myself with that description either! During the described 'modifications' I realized that I had not turned off the breaker while installing the new switch on the fan. Fortunately, the wall switch was off and I never touched any bare wires.I would think a "good" electrician would also stuff no more wire into a box than is really needed. I've found some boxes that had so much extra wire that I was amazed there weren't cracks in the wires from such sharp bends!
It appeared that the electrician wanted to sit on the floor while connecting the switches and stand up when installing the receptacles! 
Could be because I wanted the receptacles mounted on the six-inch high baseboards? Slightly more work than sawing through sheetrock... Oh yeah, while in Jr. High, I helped my dad build a garage and work shop combo. One day after school I decided to connect the circuits to the 'mains' for him. Even at that tender age, I knew that radios weren't supposed to smoke...but disconnecting the 240 volts wasn't fast enough to prevent frying the tubes in that thing... Fortunately, my dad let me stay with the family for a few more years...
Post by: kimmer on September 30, 2010, 05:26:38 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Sep 30 2010, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the key word there is "good!" And I don't cloak myself with that description either! During the described 'modifications' I realized that I had not turned off the breaker while installing the new switch on the fan. Fortunately, the wall switch was off and I never touched any bare wires.
And I don't cloak myself with that description either! During the described 'modifications' I realized that I had not turned off the breaker while installing the new switch on the fan. Fortunately, the wall switch was off and I never touched any bare wires.
<---this was almost you
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 01, 2010, 10:09:04 AM
QUOTE
<---this was almost you Actually, as long as one doesn't grab a wire in one's fist, an occasional touch of a bare wire is enough to remind one to go turn off the breaker or remove the fuse (Amazingly, those things are still around!). But this is not the preferred method of "jogging/jolting" the memory... 
And it's usually not wise to be standing in water while working on the wires... 
Post by: chriskleeman on October 02, 2010, 09:05:57 AM
QUOTE(kimmer @ Sep 30 2010, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<---this was almost youYes Jim, please tell us you did isolate the circuit breaker before you opened that stuff up and shut the circuit off!!!
Chris K
Post by: Highmac on October 02, 2010, 10:38:29 AM
When we moved to the next house he decided to completely rewire it! That was an interesting few months with floorboards lifted and plaster removed....
Post by: Xairbusdriver on October 02, 2010, 12:10:18 PM
QUOTE
please tell us you did isolate the circuit breaker before you opened that stuff up and shut the circuit off!!!
I used a highly technical and proprietary method not available to anyone else at TS.- 1. I had my wife stationed at the wall switch, with the light switch ON
2. Stationed my older granddaughter at the door to the garage and well within hearing distance of my wife
3. I took up a strategic location at the circuit breaker panels
4. Read my previously created list of breakers and what they controlled
5. Turned the probable breaker OFF
6. Waited for the sounds of agreement or silence
Post by: gunug on October 03, 2010, 01:05:58 AM