Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 10, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
Dear Readers-Can anyone advise what could have caused my brand new MacBook Air to go into a total freeze up after I installed 4 new software updates? As it is Saturday and I live in a small Midwest town, the Apple Store techs were not available and I had to check the new computer in for repair when the techs return Monday. Any ideas or information on this matter is greatly appreciated.Sincerely-Marilyn in Ohio (feel free to email me at [removed by kimmer for security]).
I also am new to this group so I apologize if I did not post this in the proper place.
Post by: kimmer on March 10, 2012, 06:58:37 PM
This is the correct forum for tech support, and hopefully someone will be along soon with either an answer or more questions to help track down the problem. I don't have a MacBook Air, so I'm no help.
It always helps to give us as much info as you can:
- OS you are running?
- What software updates (if you can remember) did you just install?
- Have you recently added/upgraded anything else?
Also, I edited your post to remove your email address as this is an open forum and your email address could possibly be seen by thousands of folks either through here or search engines, and that's not always a good thing. Plus it's helpful for folks to post their answers here as it might jog someone else with more help, and might be useful to someone else down the road.
Again, welcome. Hope we can give you an answer shortly.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 10, 2012, 09:20:17 PM
You might want to try some simple trouble-shooting procedures. First, be sure the Air is connected to the AC adaptor.
1. Try starting up in "Safe Mode"Here are the steps from an Apple publication:
To start up into Safe Mode (to Safe Boot), do this:
1. Be sure your Mac is shut down.
2. Press the power button.
3. Immediately after you hear the startup tone, hold the Shift key. The Shift key should be held as soon as possible after the startup tone, but not before the tone.
4. Release the Shift key when you see the gray Apple icon and the progress indicator (looks like a spinning gear).
During startup in Mac OS X v10.4 through Mac OS X v10.6.8, you will see "Safe Boot" on the login window, which appears even if you normally log in automatically.
2. Try reseting PRAMSteps from an Apple publication:
Resetting PRAM and NVRAM
1. Shut down the computer.
2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command, Option, P, and R. You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4.
3. Turn on the computer.
4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys. You must press this key combination before the gray screen appears.
5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the startup sound for the second time.
6. Release the keys.
Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The clock settings may be reset to a default date on some models.
Please report any results from the above steps. Also, please let us know exactly what you see and/or hear when you attempt to start up the Air.
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 11, 2012, 04:52:31 PM
[/left]
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 10 2012, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First, Welcome Aboard, Shrinkmfs [Marilyn]!You might want to try some simple trouble-shooting procedures. First, be sure the Air is connected to the AC adaptor.
1. Try starting up in "Safe Mode"Please report any results from the above steps. Also, please let us know exactly what you see and/or hear when you attempt to start up the Air.Here are the steps from an Apple publication:To start up into Safe Mode (to Safe Boot), do this:1. Be sure your Mac is shut down.2. Press the power button.3. Immediately after you hear the startup tone, hold the Shift key. The Shift key should be held as soon as possible after the startup tone, but not before the tone.4. Release the Shift key when you see the gray Apple icon and the progress indicator (looks like a spinning gear).During startup in Mac OS X v10.4 through Mac OS X v10.6.8, you will see "Safe Boot" on the login window, which appears even if you normally log in automatically.2. Try reseting PRAMSteps from an Apple publication:Resetting PRAM and NVRAM1. Shut down the computer.2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command, Option, P, and R. You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4.3. Turn on the computer.4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys. You must press this key combination before the gray screen appears.5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the startup sound for the second time.6. Release the keys.Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The clock settings may be reset to a default date on some models.
[/indent]QUOTE(Shrinkmfs @ Mar 11 2012, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 10 2012, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>First, Welcome Aboard, Shrinkmfs [Marilyn]!You might want to try some simple trouble-shooting procedures. First, be sure the Air is connected to the AC adaptor.[indent]1. Try starting up in "Safe Mode"Please report any results from the above steps. Also, please let us know exactly what you see and/or hear when you attempt to start up the Air.Here are the steps from an Apple publication:To start up into Safe Mode (to Safe Boot), do this:1. Be sure your Mac is shut down.2. Press the power button.3. Immediately after you hear the startup tone, hold the Shift key. The Shift key should be held as soon as possible after the startup tone, but not before the tone.4. Release the Shift key when you see the gray Apple icon and the progress indicator (looks like a spinning gear).During startup in Mac OS X v10.4 through Mac OS X v10.6.8, you will see "Safe Boot" on the login window, which appears even if you normally log in automatically.2. Try reseting PRAMSteps from an Apple publication:Resetting PRAM and NVRAM1. Shut down the computer.2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command, Option, P, and R. You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4.3. Turn on the computer.4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys. You must press this key combination before the gray screen appears.5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the startup sound for the second time.6. Release the keys.Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The clock settings may be reset to a default date on some models.
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 11, 2012, 04:59:47 PM
Again, thanks a million!! I will post back with whatever happens and I truly appreciate your being there for people like me.(also kind thanks to the moderator for her help and kind comments as well). java script:add_smilie(%22:)%22,%22smid_13%22)
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 11, 2012, 08:44:43 PM
However, both the procedures were mainly to determine that you could start the Air. Period. Your description sounded more like it froze just after doing some updates. I'm still not sure exactly when that was; during the next startup (which often is required by some System updates) or during the updating process itself.
Hope they can find the culprit(s). Sometimes simply re-installing an update will be all that is required. The problem here is that you made multiple updates, so we don't really know which one is or may have been the problematic one. In the future, I'd suggest making only one major update at a time. Especially an update that will require a Restart. There's usually no need to do more than that. And you can use the machine for a few days (even a week!) to see if anything has been adversely affected (usually meaning some non-Apple app you may need!). I usually wait at least a week or two before using any System update. Even Apple kan maek a misteak!
And I'd rather let someone else find that out than me! 
Post by: kimmer on March 12, 2012, 05:54:06 PM
Dear kind Techsurvivors onboard here-
Thank you all again for your kind help and interest. Today was an upsetting day. The Apple Store -that is a tiny one here in the Midwest-did not even bother to call me -but I did call them around 2 PM. They told me that the unit was indeed defective-and that were in the process of sending the new unit back to Apple for new parts.
I immediately told them I did not want it sent back for repair as it is a brand new unit-5 days old. I stated that I had a MacCare plan for it and that I understood (incorrectly by the way) that Apple would replace it. I picked up the unit and got paperwork indicating it was a defective unit.
I proceeded to call Apple. They informed me that since I had purchased the unit through Amazon. com that I had to send it back to Amazon. I waited for a good 20 minutes before I finally hung up. I was in the process of calling Amazon returns when the MAC phone rep called to leave me a message that I had to call Amazon to return it.
Amazon was wonderful-they immediately printed up a return label and said I would get a full refund since it was defective and I had proof.
Then to top it all off, I called Apple again to ask about the Apple Care plan I just purchased and does it transfer over when I get a new unit. The woman went into a big talk about how I would have to get Amazon to fax them the information about what happened, yada, yada. I was not happy with that response as I was ridiculous. At that point I called Amazon again, and they said also return the Apple Care plan for a full refund.
So I give Amazon 100% customer service,and not so hot today for Apple. I guess I can understand them not taking back a unit purchased elsewhere, but the fact it was only 5 days old and the big hassle and wait on the phone to get an answer-plus the care plan aggravation, I am pretty disappointed in them.
Thanks a million for everything! You all are great.
*Now I have about $1500 worth of credit with gift cards at Amazon. I won't get another MacBook Air-but I probably will get another MacBook pro as a back up computer instead. Any suggestions on this are more than appreciated.
Sincerest regards-Marilyn
Post by: daryl66 on March 13, 2012, 12:35:34 PM
QUOTE(kimmer @ Mar 12 2012, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*Now I have about $1500 worth of credit with gift cards at Amazon. I won't get another MacBook Air-but I probably will get another MacBook pro as a back up computer instead. Any suggestions on this are more than appreciated.
Sincerest regards-Marilyn
Sincerest regards-Marilyn
I guess YMMV, but since the prices are all dictated by Apple, I would always make my first choice of places to purchase being Apple itself. Either a mortar and brick store if one is handy or on line from the Apple web page. 24 hour shipping, etc. I have been doing this for years and with only one exception the support has been wonderful. (The old G5 capacitor problem. They fixed it 3 times and passed on the 4th)
The macbook pro's are great and travel very well, we have 2 of the 13" guys, both purchased from Apple as "refurbs". Same support as new and substantial discounts.
FYIW
Daryl
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 13, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
While I usually buy hardware directly from Apple, I usually buy AppleCare from LA Computer who seems to always have the lowest prices on it. I once bought it through eBay (with no problems) but I consider that source a much bigger risk when buying anything of value.
Post by: Jack W on March 13, 2012, 01:22:34 PM
Is all AppleCare created equal? It should be if it is truly "AppleCare".
But sometimes, it is not, but an "AppleCare" look-alike.
That happened to me several years ago when I purchased a Mac from one of those on-line stores (not Amazon).
When I had a problem, the service came out of N. Canton (about 20-30 miles away).
Altho the service was good, but that didn't prevent the trepidations before the service was performed.
BUT, if it is true AppleCare, then Apple will (or at least should) cover any problems.
I buy my Macs, either new or re-furbed, from Apple.
There is no way I would ever buy a Mac, or other Apple product from eBay.
YMMV
Jack
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 13, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
My wife has had excellent results with eBay, but she's never bought any electronics. While some of the items are rather expensive, the sellers have excellent evaluations. Sometimes she even gets more than she has ordered! Last time she ordered 9 plates because the seller didn't have 12 that she wanted. She actually got 12 even though she'd only paid for the 9! She emailed the guy but he said not to bother sending more money! I'm sure he's making a profit but he seems just as concerned about keeping customers! OTOH, he may have stolen the stuff and doesn't want to "make any waves!"
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 13, 2012, 04:59:36 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"AppleCare" is simply a box with several sheets of small print detailing the limits of the Warranty. But one of the items is a Registration number that must be given to Apple on the AppleCare Registration page. Once that is done, you will gat a verification that the item is covered. You can also visit a page that shows all items that you have registered and the end date of any warranty (the regular one or the extended one). If what you buy does not require or provide this registration number, you done bought a pig in a poke!' (to put it rural legalese)! ;)My wife has had excellent results with eBay, but she's never bought any electronics. While some of the items are rather expensive, the sellers have excellent evaluations. Sometimes she even gets more than she has ordered! Last time she ordered 9 plates because the seller didn't have 12 that she wanted. She actually got 12 even though she'd only paid for the 9! She emailed the guy but he said not to bother sending more money! I'm sure he's making a profit but he seems just as concerned about keeping customers! OTOH, he may have stolen the stuff and doesn't want to "make any waves!"
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you had registered your AppleCare, the place of purchase should be irrelevant. However, I suspect their first choice is almost always repair rather than replacement. I'm glad Amazon gave you such good service but I've never had anything but superior service from Apple, either. So, you've saved some frustrations, but you are still without the second computer, and we still don't know what the problem was/is. That info is helpful for future and even current trouble-shooting. Not that it might have been anything you could have fixed, but just knowing the steps taken in trouble-shooting and their results is very useful info. ;)While I usually buy hardware directly from Apple, I usually buy AppleCare from LA Computer who seems to always have the lowest prices on it. I once bought it through eBay (with no problems) but I consider that source a much bigger risk when buying anything of value.
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you had registered your AppleCare, the place of purchase should be irrelevant. However, I suspect their first choice is almost always repair rather than replacement. I'm glad Amazon gave you such good service but I've never had anything but superior service from Apple, either. So, you've saved some frustrations, but you are still without the second computer, and we still don't know what the problem was/is. That info is helpful for future and even current trouble-shooting. Not that it might have been anything you could have fixed, but just knowing the steps taken in trouble-shooting and their results is very useful info. ;)While I usually buy hardware directly from Apple, I usually buy AppleCare from LA Computer who seems to always have the lowest prices on it. I once bought it through eBay (with no problems) but I consider that source a much bigger risk when buying anything of value.
QUOTE(Shrinkmfs @ Mar 13 2012, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"AppleCare" is simply a box with several sheets of small print detailing the limits of the Warranty. But one of the items is a Registration number that must be given to Apple on the AppleCare Registration page. Once that is done, you will gat a verification that the item is covered. You can also visit a page that shows all items that you have registered and the end date of any warranty (the regular one or the extended one). If what you buy does not require or provide this registration number, you done bought a pig in a poke!' (to put it rural legalese)! ;)My wife has had excellent results with eBay, but she's never bought any electronics. While some of the items are rather expensive, the sellers have excellent evaluations. Sometimes she even gets more than she has ordered! Last time she ordered 9 plates because the seller didn't have 12 that she wanted. She actually got 12 even though she'd only paid for the 9! She emailed the guy but he said not to bother sending more money! I'm sure he's making a profit but he seems just as concerned about keeping customers! OTOH, he may have stolen the stuff and doesn't want to "make any waves!"
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you had registered your AppleCare, the place of purchase should be irrelevant. However, I suspect their first choice is almost always repair rather than replacement. I'm glad Amazon gave you such good service but I've never had anything but superior service from Apple, either. So, you've saved some frustrations, but you are still without the second computer, and we still don't know what the problem was/is. That info is helpful for future and even current trouble-shooting. Not that it might have been anything you could have fixed, but just knowing the steps taken in trouble-shooting and their results is very useful info. ;)While I usually buy hardware directly from Apple, I usually buy AppleCare from LA Computer who seems to always have the lowest prices on it. I once bought it through eBay (with no problems) but I consider that source a much bigger risk when buying anything of value.
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2012, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you had registered your AppleCare, the place of purchase should be irrelevant. However, I suspect their first choice is almost always repair rather than replacement. I'm glad Amazon gave you such good service but I've never had anything but superior service from Apple, either. So, you've saved some frustrations, but you are still without the second computer, and we still don't know what the problem was/is. That info is helpful for future and even current trouble-shooting. Not that it might have been anything you could have fixed, but just knowing the steps taken in trouble-shooting and their results is very useful info. ;)While I usually buy hardware directly from Apple, I usually buy AppleCare from LA Computer who seems to always have the lowest prices on it. I once bought it through eBay (with no problems) but I consider that source a much bigger risk when buying anything of value.
QUOTE(Jack W @ Mar 13 2012, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My question is:Is all AppleCare created equal? It should be if it is truly "AppleCare".But sometimes, it is not, but an "AppleCare" look-alike.That happened to me several years ago when I purchased a Mac from one of those on-line stores (not Amazon).When I had a problem, the service came out of N. Canton (about 20-30 miles away).Altho the service was good, but that didn't prevent the trepidations before the service was performed.BUT, if it is true AppleCare, then Apple will (or at least should) cover any problems.I buy my Macs, either new or re-furbed, from Apple.There is no way I would ever buy a Mac, or other Apple product from eBay.YMMVJack
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 13, 2012, 05:10:49 PM
UPDATE: 3-13-2012
Dear Board Members,
Thank you all for your interest, support and comments.In reply to some of the issues raised I want to clarify and answer them here as best as I can:
1. I purchased both the MacBook Air and the Apple Care brand NEW from Amazon.com.( One of the Apple reps did tell me that Amazon is one of their
"approved vendors". )Nothing was ever purchased from Ebay or second hand here. I know better than that.
2. The Apple Care plan was indeed valid. it was not an issue of validity that the Apple Care rep was questioning me about at all. What was involved was that she said since i already had registered the defective unit with my Apple Care, and when I would get a new replacement unit, she said I could NOT again use the same Apple Care plan again . This was after explaining that the unit was defective after less than 5 days of use, through no fault of mine, and that I wanted to register the new replacement MacBook Air with that same plan when it arrived soon (at that point I was still was going to get another new MacBook Air replacement). I did not think that was reasonable at all.
3. As for what was wrong with the unit to begin with, the registered Mac dealer I took it into just stated that it needed "Major modular repair". As I am not a professional computer tech, i don't know anymore than that.
I hope this addresses some of the concerns and queries mentioned. I also was not taking any frustrations out on Apple. Actually I was pretty calm when i initially contacted them. Afterwards however, it is fortunate that I am not a drinker because I would have hit the bottle pretty heavily.
Gratitude to all-Marilyn
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 13, 2012, 06:44:00 PM
I have no intuition to argue with you about your experiences with Apple. I would, however, like to explain why I made some of my comments. And some of them were not even addressed to you but other posters on this thread. That is normal at Techsurvivors and sometimes it gets very confusing trying to follow the discussion! I'm probably one of the causes of much of that confusion!!
I think there may have been some confusion about who and how the "replacement" item was to be obtained. I thought you said Apple wanted to repair the original Air. That is usually their initial method. And that would, indeed, be covered by AppleCare. But when you decided to return the Air for a refund, graciously offered by Amazon, there was nothing for the registered AppleCare to cover. Thus it became null and void. It applies to a particular hardware item and there are specific plans fro several different items. That is, you can get AppleCare for an iMac, the Air, the MacBookPro, for example but they will all be differently priced because of the different environments they operate in and the expenses of repairs. Same goes for iPads, iPods, iPhones. While they can be transferred to new owners of the particular machine, they do not and can not be transferred to another machine, even if it is identical to the original one.
Many people, myself included, often recommend buying the Apple-refurbished products. The reasons being that they have already had 99.9% of any problems found and fixed. Electronics tend to either run forever of fail soon after purchase. Apple's refurbishing saves a bit of money, much more than any price of a new machine from any retailer (including Apple) but the other advantage is that the machines are still eligible for AppleCare!
AppleCare is an extended warranty, not a replacement guarantee. On the other hand, I must say that Apple has often made a replacement available, with or without AppleCare being involved. Often these replacements are offered well after the AppleCare warranty would have covered the item. In that case, obviously, there would be no continued coverage. I have no experience with what happens when an item is replaced, by Apple, during the period covered by AppleCare.
I still think Apple did a bad job of helping you with your problem. But I have had lesser problems badly handled by them, at least once. But that problem was a matter of getting the problem explained (from my end) to some one who could offer the solution (at their end). Eventually, in my case, I went from the "Live chat" system to the email system to a phone call with a real person. I appreciate your ability to avoid becoming angry, I have that particular problem, myself!
Finally, I'm just glad you got back to "square one" and can now move on to more enjoyable pursuits. One of which I hope will be visits to TS! No matter what our experience level, everyone can be a help at some point!
Post by: krissel on March 13, 2012, 11:24:39 PM
If you didn't have to use your credit with Amazon I'd concur with the suggestion to buy a refurb from Apple.
However Amazon does have good prices, free shipping and (ahem), no tax.
I purchased my MBP as well as one each for my Dad and my sister from Amazon and had no problems. In fact I had expedited shipping on one that they turned around and refunded the postage for some reason...I didn't complain.
Since you were initially interested in an Air, you probably would be quite satisfied with one of the 13" MacBookPros. They actually will give you more for your money than the Air would.
I also purchased my Applecare from LA Computers since their prices were better than Apple and there is no difference between the two 'plans'.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.
Typed on my iPad so forgive any mistakes...
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 14, 2012, 05:23:09 AM
QUOTE(krissel @ Mar 14 2012, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Marilyn,
If you didn't have to use your credit with Amazon I'd concur with the suggestion to buy a refurb from Apple.
However Amazon does have good prices, free shipping and (ahem), no tax.
I purchased my MBP as well as one each for my Dad and my sister from Amazon and had no problems. In fact I had expedited shipping on one that they turned around and refunded the postage for some reason...I didn't complain.
Since you were initially interested in an Air, you probably would be quite satisfied with one of the 13" MacBookPros. They actually will give you more for your money than the Air would.
I also purchased my Applecare from LA Computers since their prices were better than Apple and there is no difference between the two 'plans'.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.
Typed on my iPad so forgive any mistakes...
If you didn't have to use your credit with Amazon I'd concur with the suggestion to buy a refurb from Apple.
However Amazon does have good prices, free shipping and (ahem), no tax.
I purchased my MBP as well as one each for my Dad and my sister from Amazon and had no problems. In fact I had expedited shipping on one that they turned around and refunded the postage for some reason...I didn't complain.
Since you were initially interested in an Air, you probably would be quite satisfied with one of the 13" MacBookPros. They actually will give you more for your money than the Air would.
I also purchased my Applecare from LA Computers since their prices were better than Apple and there is no difference between the two 'plans'.
If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.
Typed on my iPad so forgive any mistakes...
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 14, 2012, 05:30:11 AM
I thank you for the excellent advice about purchasing a refurb. Mac as the 2010 MacBook Pro I have is super.Also it still would have the older system which has been super for me. I never even considered the refurb option, as I am so fearful of getting any used electronics. Now I will rethink that as I try to be open minded.
Also thank you for all the Apple Care info. I also did not know all of that either.
Again, major league gratitude for all of your prompt replies, interest and help. I greatly appreciate it and i am now a loyal reader and member of your excellent board.
(...and I make mistakes like mad on my Ipad too!!!)
Post by: chriskleeman on March 14, 2012, 08:26:44 AM
I too concur with Krissel about buying refurbished units from Apple. I have had great luck (so far, fingers crossed!) with all the refurbished hardware, including two MacBook Pros, and since they come with a new warranty and the option of adding AppleCare, it is indeed a thrifty way to go.
And, I lucked out on my last purchase a few months ago, as I have the last series of MacBook Pro that will run both Snow Leopard and Lion, with a fairly new version of the of the Quad-core i7 processor.
Sorry to hear about your lousy customer service with Apple however!
All the best,
Chris K
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 14, 2012, 11:12:25 AM
Post by: jchuzi on March 14, 2012, 11:14:42 AM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 14, 2012, 01:42:12 PM
An aside: I was given a new iMac with more than I would have asked for, including the Magic Mouse. But you can't look a 'gift horse' in the mouth! Especially if it's one of your children!!
So I was forced to use Lion. But I have not had any problems with the OS, itself. But there are differences: scrolling is reversed, strangely, it seems more natural to me now! 
Some apps needed to be upgraded: Since I didn't get Lion until several months after it was released, I have had no trouble getting replacement apps that work with it. There are differences in the Saving of new or changed files: More and more apps are adopting Apple's Auto Saving function, now I see the "Don't you want to save your changes" dialog more often because I expect them to be saved automagically! Launch Bar is more robust: I never use it, so what? Spaces usage has changed: I never used that before, So what! More apps can be used full-screen: Never understood why I'd want to do that, so I still don't (except for PS Elements, but that's how it's always worked. 
) There must be some other things I've already forgotten about. But I can't remember anything that I used to do that I can't. Oh yeah, there is one BIGGY! The Finder icons are now shades of grey, no more color! But there actually is a freeware app that can change those back! As a matter of fact, there are dozens of freeware stuff that converts many of the new Lion behaviors back to Snow Leopard ways.One thing I just helped an elderly friend with that is so much easier in Lion: You can now resize any window by clicking any side! No more aiming at the tiny lower-right-hand corner target (which he had hidden because he dragged the window so far down!
My biggest problem now is remembering how to scroll on my wife's MBP when I use it.
There are many worse things than be forced to use Lion, namely, be forced to use Windows!
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 14, 2012, 04:17:25 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 14 2012, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Refurbished Apple items can be bought only via the on-line Apple Store. And it may not be possible to even get a computer without Lion on it by this date. Probably depends on when the refurbishing was completed. And these machines don't sit around too long. I think you can determine the details by clicking on any offering.An aside: I was given a new iMac with more than I would have asked for, including the Magic Mouse. But you can't look a 'gift horse' in the mouth! Especially if it's one of your children!! So I was forced to use Lion. But I have not had any problems with the OS, itself. But there are differences: scrolling is reversed, strangely, it seems more natural to me now! Some apps needed to be upgraded: Since I didn't get Lion until several months after it was released, I have had no trouble getting replacement apps that work with it. There are differences in the Saving of new or changed files: More and more apps are adopting Apple's Auto Saving function, now I see the "Don't you want to save your changes" dialog more often because I expect them to be saved automagically! Launch Bar is more robust: I never use it, so what? Spaces usage has changed: I never used that before, So what! More apps can be used full-screen: Never understood why I'd want to do that, so I still don't (except for PS Elements, but that's how it's always worked. ) There must be some other things I've already forgotten about. But I can't remember anything that I used to do that I can't. Oh yeah, there is one BIGGY! The Finder icons are now shades of grey, no more color! But there actually is a freeware app that can change those back! As a matter of fact, there are dozens of freeware stuff that converts many of the new Lion behaviors back to Snow Leopard ways.One thing I just helped an elderly friend with that is so much easier in Lion: You can now resize any window by clicking any side! No more aiming at the tiny lower-right-hand corner target (which he had hidden because he dragged the window so far down! :laughhard:My biggest problem now is remembering how to scroll on my wife's MBP when I use it.There are many worse things than be forced to use Lion, namely, be forced to use Windows!
Dear Poster Child-Massive thanks for all of this great information. I am now seriously reconsidering my fleeting feelings of never purchasing a MAC again. I will definitely look into the refurbished units, and also I feel alot better about the Lion system too after reading your post. Major league gratitude-Sincerely-Marilynhttp://www.techsurvivors.net/forums/style_images/pingy/folder_editor_images/rte-emo-button.png
So I was forced to use Lion. But I have not had any problems with the OS, itself. But there are differences: scrolling is reversed, strangely, it seems more natural to me now! Some apps needed to be upgraded: Since I didn't get Lion until several months after it was released, I have had no trouble getting replacement apps that work with it. There are differences in the Saving of new or changed files: More and more apps are adopting Apple's Auto Saving function, now I see the "Don't you want to save your changes" dialog more often because I expect them to be saved automagically! Launch Bar is more robust: I never use it, so what? Spaces usage has changed: I never used that before, So what! More apps can be used full-screen: Never understood why I'd want to do that, so I still don't (except for PS Elements, but that's how it's always worked. ) There must be some other things I've already forgotten about. But I can't remember anything that I used to do that I can't. Oh yeah, there is one BIGGY! The Finder icons are now shades of grey, no more color! But there actually is a freeware app that can change those back! As a matter of fact, there are dozens of freeware stuff that converts many of the new Lion behaviors back to Snow Leopard ways.One thing I just helped an elderly friend with that is so much easier in Lion: You can now resize any window by clicking any side! No more aiming at the tiny lower-right-hand corner target (which he had hidden because he dragged the window so far down! :laughhard:My biggest problem now is remembering how to scroll on my wife's MBP when I use it.There are many worse things than be forced to use Lion, namely, be forced to use Windows! Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 14, 2012, 06:31:26 PM
Post by: chriskleeman on March 14, 2012, 08:22:39 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 14 2012, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
) So I was forced to use Lion. But I have not had any problems with the OS, itself. But there are differences: scrolling is reversed, strangely, it seems more natural to me now! My biggest problem now is remembering how to scroll on my wife's MBP when I use it.There are many worse things than be forced to use Lion, namely, be forced to use Windows!
My biggest problem now is remembering how to scroll on my wife's MBP when I use it.There are many worse things than be forced to use Lion, namely, be forced to use Windows! XABD, that "reversed" scrolling can be reset in System Preferences>Trackpad>Scroll Directon: Natural. Just un-check the box and you're back in business. First thing I did when I got into Lion!
CK
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 15, 2012, 11:06:28 AM
But you bring up a good point, even Apple provides a way to change some of the differences in Lion.
I think the hardest way to use Lion is to use it one one computer while working on another one without it. That way, you'l be noticing some of the differences every time you switch machines. It would be like driving two different cars, one with automatic and another with a 'straight shift.' You'll have to use your brain more...some say that's not a bad idea, of course. 
Post by: daryl66 on March 15, 2012, 11:59:06 AM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 14 2012, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thing I just helped an elderly friend with that is so much easier in Lion: You can now resize any window by clicking any side! No more aiming at the tiny lower-right-hand corner target (which he had hidden because he dragged the window so far down!
I am wondering if you get any govt subsidies for helping the elderly??? If so you can count one more success and apply. I did not realize that you could resize by the via the side(s). Thanks
We have been using Lion on 2 machines for almost as long as it has been available and agree totally. Use what fits for you, ignore the rest.
Daryl
Post by: Paddy on March 15, 2012, 01:00:30 PM
I've bought a number of refurbs from Apple and been very happy with them. I would certainly consider doing so again.
Both my husband and I will be in the market for new laptops soonish, so I'm watching the news/rumours with interest. The MacBook Pros are overdue for an update, so if you're not in a mad rush, I'd definitely advise waiting. If, on the other hand, you'd prefer one of the older models that definitely has an optical drive, then you should consider buying now. I'm not entirely happy about the potential lack of optical drive, as not all my software is downloadable. However, Migration Assistant will take care of most of that, and certainly most of my software these days is purchased online. And with USB stick capacities growing and prices dropping, they become a much more viable method of moving data around when a sneaker-net option is required. I don't know when I last burned a DVD or CD, in fact...two years ago, perhaps?
As an aside - the 11" MBA is an amazing little beast - I had seen them in passing in the store, but a friend who was doing a presentation for a group I run had one the other day and I got to pick it up and really look at it. It's really not much bigger than an iPad, and wonderfully portable.
Post by: Shrinkmfs on March 26, 2012, 06:44:02 PM
I hope this hielps someone -as it is a download I recently found that was also free. It is called OnyX for Mac-and it cleans up a MAC . After running it the "stall ball "problem I had been having on my MacBook Pro(2010) has ended and it was running faster than ever. Maybe everyone here already knows about it, but just in case, I hope it can help someone else too.
Thanks for being there! (Hope I posted this in the right place)
Post by: dboh on March 26, 2012, 08:57:55 PM
QUOTE(jchuzi @ Mar 14 2012, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do it while you can. Rumor: Apple to launch 15-inch MacBook Air in April, 'effectively killing the Pro'
What is up with Apple lately? They're getting rid of ProBooks after getting rid of the superdrive in the Mini. What kind of strategy is this?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 27, 2012, 11:49:12 AM
QUOTE
What is up with Apple lately? They're getting rid of ProBooks after getting rid of the superdrive in the Mini. What kind of strategy is this?
Didn't you get the word? Apple is getting out of the computer business. They started leaving a few years ago when they dropped "Computer" from their name. Surely you are aware that we are now in the Post-PC era! 
I'm not sure what that means exactly, but there is a Post cereal plant in my home town and I plan on driving by the plant to see if they are getting increasing shipments of electronics. When HP decided to combine their PC and Printer businesses, Apple probably saw the ;hand-writing-on-the-wall' and decided they just couldn't keep competing with those PC things. So far, no one has been able to match or beat them in the "i" market and they are making more money from those things than all the 'putters. I'm hoping they will maintain the computer side as a "loss leader" business...
Post by: dboh on March 27, 2012, 07:42:20 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 27 2012, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't you get the word? Apple is getting out of the computer business.
OK, I've read enough of your posts not to know whether the above is serious.
I haven't read much on company goings-on for a few years, to be honest, so I don't know what their plans are. Hopefully they'll take their time in getting out, so I can figure out what to do about my next computer. Are people mostly liking MacBook Air now? I remember complaints about it being too thin and potentially flimsy when it first came out. My 14-year-old nephew is about to get one for school since he roughhoused his Macbook Pro into an early grave. I can't imagine this one surviving very long.
Post by: Paddy on March 27, 2012, 10:13:02 PM
QUOTE(dboh @ Mar 27 2012, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 27 2012, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Didn't you get the word? Apple is getting out of the computer business.
OK, I've read enough of your posts not to know whether the above is serious.
I haven't read much on company goings-on for a few years, to be honest, so I don't know what their plans are. Hopefully they'll take their time in getting out, so I can figure out what to do about my next computer. Are people mostly liking MacBook Air now? I remember complaints about it being too thin and potentially flimsy when it first came out. My 14-year-old nephew is about to get one for school since he roughhoused his Macbook Pro into an early grave. I can't imagine this one surviving very long.
Yes, well, as you've noticed, you do need to take Jim's postings with a bag or two of that NaCl stuff.
There are rumours that the next generation of MacBook Pros will be either beefed-up MacBook Airs (essentially expanding the MBA line to 15" and 17") or something similar. It does make sense in many ways - though I certainly hope that they (a)retain a hardwired ethernet port and (b)the room/option of having a large HDD, as SSDs still aren't up to the capacity requirements for a lot of us. I rarely ever use a DVD drive these days and can do without one on my laptop. Almost all, if not all my software is available online, though some of the specials one can get from Amazon etc. are NOT available as downloads, so an external DVD might be a necessity.
As for the rest of the lineup, the big question mark remains over the Mac Pro line, which hasn't been updated since July 2010. I, for one, will be furious if they discontinue it; I have 4 internal HDs in mine, plus add-on cards - and a NON-GLOSSY monitor of my own choosing. I really, really, hope they decide to update the Mac Pro line. There will be a nasty, nasty backlash from a lot of pro users if they don't continue to cater to that market. It may not be a huge market these days, but many, many developers use them and there are still an awful lot of them in use in the graphics and film industries. Part of the reason they haven't sold many lately is BECAUSE they haven't updated it in almost 2 years.
iMacs and Mac Minis are solid sellers and are in no danger of going bye-bye as far as I can tell, though from a marketing standpoint, it's probably time to update the look of the iMac (though I think it is still a very attractive design - but who knows - Jonny Ive may have something even better up his sleeve)
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 28, 2012, 12:00:34 PM
QUOTE
Yes, well, as you've noticed, you do need to take Jim's postings with a bag or two of that NaCl stuff.
Moi?! You might want to save the (full) bag(s) and hit me over the head with them! But I seriously do not recommend "taking" them, whatever that means! Seriously, I'm just being cynical (again) about Apple and their incessant and exaggerated desire for more and more cash! And that comes from their wildly successful iPhone/iPad hardware, not their 'full-sized' computers (including the mini). As Paddy pointed out, their might-end model hasn't been updated in years, they dropped the server model (X Serve), they did drop 'Computer' from their name several years ago and they keep saying we are in a "post-PC" era. Of course, they are not really making any 'noise' about stopping computer updates/sales/support but the bottom line is still one of the criteria for all decisions, as it is in any company. I'm just being "disapointedparanoidedlycynical" (that word is defined on the back of all bags of NaCl) about not being offer more for my loyalty to the company. And maybe a little sad about not making a riskier investment many years ago! BTW, according to <this site>, "NaCl" is pronounced "salt!"
I just hope that doesn't mean that "salt" is pronounced "NaCl!"
Post by: dboh on March 29, 2012, 07:54:39 AM
I just can't believe Apple would turn their collective back on the design industry. They're who built Apple to the point where they could introduce the devices that got them where they are today.