Post by: Paddy on May 14, 2012, 12:42:56 PM
Good luck with that. I, for one, won't be paying!
Why is it practically everyone I knows (a)hates FB but (b)uses it anyway - though reluctantly? This includes teenagers - not just us middle-aged parental types.
Perhaps it's because everyone else is on it, and it does keep you sort of in touch with people you might not otherwise be in contact with. In my younger son's case, he and his friends seem to conduct a lot of group planning on it, including for schoolwork. Otherwise, both boys profess to hate it.
And I sure don't know anyone who likes Timeline...
Post by: kimmer on May 14, 2012, 03:05:21 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ May 14 2012, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is it practically everyone I knows (a)hates FB but (b)uses it anyway - though reluctantly? This includes teenagers - not just us middle-aged parental types.
To borrow your words:
Perhaps it's because everyone else is on it, and it does keep you sort of in touch with people you might not otherwise be in contact with.
This is the only reason I'm there. I tried emailing those that I'm closest to, and they tell me they don't have time for email. So, if I want to keep in touch, FB it is. Timeline? Not one "friend" likes it, and we are actually starting to lose touch thanks to Timeline.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 14, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
QUOTE
Why is it practically everyone I knows (a)hates FB but (b)uses it anyway - though reluctantly?
I don't know anyone who uses it reluctantly, they either use it and have 1)no concerns/cares or 2)have no idea of what they are giving away/providing. Apparently, it is still "cool" or whatever the recent term for that "old-fashioned" word is. 
Just visited(he sure has a big office for these "visits!") my kidney stone doctor this morning and he was grumbling about more regulations about how to take blood pressure readings, blood draws, etc. "Haven't noticed anyone being healthier because of the new rules and regs. Big Brother is here!" I agreed but added, nobody seems to care what we put on our Facebook page! He admitted that he doesn't use FB anymore. I (hopefully) deleted my account early last year. I'm not sure we can ever know that data is actually deleted...
I can marginally make a case for texting, even though I don't allow any to come to my phone. But I don't understand what it is about FB that can't be done with email. Except that many of my peers seem to be baffled at anything beyond adding/forwarding those. They don't seem to have any concept of editing out anything, even an extra blank line!
And heaven forbid their use of BCC, much less deleting the carbon copied names. 
Thankfully, one of my attorney friends has a denial of responsibility attached to all his messages, even the ones with nothing but a YouTube link. I used to kid him about telling the wrong recipient about their responsibilities to delete/destroy/never read/forget what they accidentally read/etc. because the sender screwed up!OK, I just read the linked article. Is the following actually true?
QUOTE
Facebook's privacy-rule change this week allows it to use your face to advertise products away from Facebook.
And there's been no backlash?! 
Are people actually this stupid?!The author is absolutely correct about his assessment about Wall Street (to include anyone who buys the soon-to-be-issued-stock). The expected price is based on the millions of eyeballs that FB claims are available to see ads, the only way they have of making money, which is the only reason they exist, of course. But if FB stops increasing those eyeballs or can't prove they are seeing more ads, their cash cow will slowly start to dry up. OTOH, it could even crash and end up in the Penny Stock list! To avoid becoming a Ponzi Scheme, FB will have to create new product that will be worth paying for, either by the users or the advertisers.
For only $99.99 a year, I'll happily send you a copy of my prognostications for the coming 60 days! This offer is time-limited and cannot be found in stores! Be sure to enter "SCAM" when you fill out the order form! Hurry! Do it now!
Post by: kimmer on May 14, 2012, 04:09:14 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 14 2012, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OK, I just read the linked article. Is the following actually true? Are people actually this stupid?!
QUOTE
Facebook's privacy-rule change this week allows it to use your face to advertise products away from Facebook.
And there's been no backlash?! Are people actually this stupid?!1. The change took place, quietly, this past Friday (5/11) and most folks were busy doing weekend/Mom things, so most users aren't aware of the changes.
2. Yes, it does say they can use your image to advertise whenever/where evertheir greedy, money-grubbing heartsthey so desire to make money.
3. I never saw an announcement or link to the change, so forget what FB says about being "more transparent".
4. You really don't need/want me to answer your last question, do you?
PS: I can't make a case for texting, mainly because I can't translate it. HAHAHA
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 14, 2012, 05:06:43 PM
Post by: Paddy on May 14, 2012, 06:29:51 PM
Post by: kimmer on May 14, 2012, 07:40:06 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 14 2012, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think by "transparent," FB means they won't intentionally hide thier Privacy terms. Of course, that's not quite the same as making it easy to notice/read any changes or even know there has been one. I think most sites that "use" thier users, just post that you should look at the Privacy page daily or more often...
Hard to follow when they constantly change where the privacy page can be found.
Post by: sandyman on May 15, 2012, 06:09:21 AM
There is no such thing as a Free Lunch on the Internet. Companies such as Facebook need to monetize their Userbase or charge for the service. You have to decide, is the service provided worth giving up your privacy and handing over a load of your personal information to the service provider and to third parties. I refuse to believe the codswallop they spout about anonymous data, we can all remember the AOL fiasco when supposedly anonymous data was leaked to the web. Personally the only "Free" service I use is Gmail and that is only because I have been too lazy/busy/preoccupied to sort out an alternative.
Regarding text messages. I use them a lot for much the same reasons as Paddy. I get a huge allowance on my monthly contract. 300 minutes of calls, 3000 texts and 1GB of date for £10 a month which equates to roughly $16.
Sandy
PS this will be my last post for a while. I have the small matter of a stay in hospital to keep me occupied
There's no need to go into details but I'm sure Frances will keep you up to date if required
Post by: Jack W on May 15, 2012, 07:13:08 AM
QUOTE(sandyman @ May 15 2012, 07:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Regarding text messages. I use them a lot for much the same reasons as Paddy. I get a huge allowance on my monthly contract. 300 minutes of calls, 3000 texts and 1GB of date for £10 a month which equates to roughly $16.
Sandy
PS this will be my last post for a while. I have the small matter of a stay in hospital to keep me occupied There's no need to go into details but I'm sure Frances will keep you up to date if required
Sandy
PS this will be my last post for a while. I have the small matter of a stay in hospital to keep me occupied
There's no need to go into details but I'm sure Frances will keep you up to date if requiredSandy,
Best of luck to you, and wishes for a rapid recovery.
Jack
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 15, 2012, 08:37:25 AM
I might be more tempted to use texting if I only had to pay for messages I send... As for using it instead of a call, I can turn off my ringer AND the vibrator when I don't want to be bothered... it's called personal choice! You can even record a message that I can listen to later! What a concept! 
I may be forwarding rumors, but I thought Google had complete and total access to any and every Gmail message. As Sandyman says, There ain't no free lunch. We pay for these free services by providing as much info as the provider can use... for ever. The "free-service-paid-for-by-advertisers" provides more and more incentives for the service to collect more and more data as well as 'subscribers.' Of course, all that info is scrubbed of identifying data and collected/organized by impersonal computers maintained by people of the highest moral character. Surely. Mostly... "Trust us.. one more time." 
As for FB's proposed $!00,000,000,000 "market value," I would simply remind investors that Yahoo was once valued at that same price. 
A stock price does not select the value of a company, it merely reflects the millions of opinions of individuals and managers that are willing to buy it. This opinions are made by fickle human brains who are known to be affected by greed and personal gain rather than facts or reality. FB/Yahoo/many Internet companies provide absolutely no tangible product. The majority of the service is dependent on a combination of their users not knowing what the service is doing with their data and the service keeping the users from knowing how valuable that data is. Their profit comes by paying relatively fixed costs for hardware (that is constantly becoming cheaper) and having user provide the info at absolutely no cost. Most of us don't like to think that we "can be bought," but we seem OK if the price is ZERO. Reason for edit: Adding a couple of zeros to the already idiotically high 'evaluation' figure. A P/E of 100? Give me a break!
Post by: Paddy on May 15, 2012, 03:11:35 PM
That's a pretty impressive cell phone package you've got! Canada has long been ridiculously expensive compared to Europe (and to some extent, the US) - with all of our internet, TV, cell and home phone services bundled with one company AND yearly dickering with same to get best rate (requiring threatening to cancel and thereby getting through to "retention" who are the only folks capable of giving these discounted rates...it's an absurd charade) we pay $31.61 CDN/mo incl. taxes for 300 minutes weekday, unlimited evenings starting at 6 and unlimited weekends, 1000 anytime Canadian long distance, 2500 sent texts, call display and voicemail. NO data - that would be another $25 for 1GB. Incoming texts are free in Canada - I can't believe the US companies are still dinging users for incoming! Texting IS one thing that is much more reasonable in Canada - but in the US, pretty much every major carrier no longer has "roaming" - you can call anywhere in the US for the same rate. Not the case in Canada, and for those of us who are regularly away from our home territory (weekend cottages etc.) it's a royal pain. My son has a plan from his time in Thunder Bay that DOES have Canada-wide calling included in the base student rate and it's very, very unusual.
As for GMail, they don't "read" your email per se - they just use automatic scanning technology to do everything from filtering spam to...presenting you with relevant advertising.
See: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer....;answer=1304609
Frankly, your ISP scans your email too to block spam - not a heck of a lot of difference really. Just one more function added - and not one that bothers me, as I have adblocks installed in all my browsers. They can try to target stuff to me all they like, but it's not going to do any good, because I never see it. (same with Facebook)
Bottom line - any real expectation of privacy on the internet is a bit misplaced.
Post by: Johanbgoot on May 15, 2012, 03:20:10 PM
Post by: kimmer on May 15, 2012, 06:35:47 PM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 15, 2012, 07:25:02 PM
QUOTE
As for GMail, they don't "read" your email per se - they just use automatic scanning technology to do everything from filtering spam to...presenting you with relevant advertising.
See: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer....;answer=1304609
Frankly, your ISP scans your email too to block spam - not a heck of a lot of difference really. Just one more function added - and not one that bothers me, as I have adblocks installed in all my browsers. They can try to target stuff to me all they like, but it's not going to do any good, because I never see it. (same with Facebook)
Advertising, where? To me, how, if they don't know who I am? "Relevant" advertising equals advertising I ask for, not what a filter designed by another human says to send. Since I don't use Gmail, I've never been sent anything from them, but if it comes via email, I don't see what any browser has to do with it. That's one reason I keep html viewing OFF in Mail. And if it does come via a browser, they know more than my email address. See: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer....;answer=1304609
Frankly, your ISP scans your email too to block spam - not a heck of a lot of difference really. Just one more function added - and not one that bothers me, as I have adblocks installed in all my browsers. They can try to target stuff to me all they like, but it's not going to do any good, because I never see it. (same with Facebook)
Just another reason to block javascript.Lastly, scanning my email for SPAM is not the same as scanning my email to determine how they can sell my addy to some one at a higher rate. Privacy is one thing. And anyone who posts anything on the Internet while expecting it to be hidden or even deleted is only fooling himself. But I'm not talking about privacy, I'm talking about using me as a source of income without any remuneration.
I don't trust FB, et al. because of their lack of true transparency or even common courtesy. Telling me it's my responsibility to monitor their Privacy page because it's too much trouble for them to be honest about the changes they will make is nothing short of absurd. But I'm obviously among the very few who feel this way. So be it. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him read the depth gauge." 
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 17, 2012, 02:08:58 PM
Post by: sandyman on May 25, 2012, 03:45:19 AM
Back again. I was unable to keep anyone up to date as
1) Mobile phones are banned in most areas of the hospital
2) I couldn't get a signal on my 3Mobile / iPhone combination!!!!!
Very tired and a bit sore but recovering (the 5 days supply of morphine will help
). I'll keep posting since I'll have plenty of free time and let you all know when my recovery is complete. 
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 25, 2012, 10:29:15 AM
Don't try to use all that morphine at once!!! I suspect you have a push button that prevents that from happening.
Post by: sandyman on May 27, 2012, 01:50:35 AM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 25 2012, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great! Don't try to use all that morphine at once!!! I suspect you have a push button that prevents that from happening.
Don't try to use all that morphine at once!!! I suspect you have a push button that prevents that from happening. It actually comes in the form of slow release pills. I have to take one twice daily. I'm in NO hurry to use them up. I'd rather eke them out as long as possible so that I don't need to go to my GP for a "top up" I did a bit of research and it's not actually morphine per se, although some of the nurses called it that, but Oxycodone. Who cares as long as it works
Sandy
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 27, 2012, 01:41:36 PM
QUOTE
Oxycodone.
Ah yes, much easier to
Post by: Bruce_F on May 27, 2012, 06:29:14 PM
All this talk about Facebook ads and the way they track people doesn't bother me. We don't get the ads because we have AdBlock running. Do Not Track Plus claims to be blocking all Facebook tracking.
I wonder what they would do if everyone did the same? I believe advertisers would be leaving in droves if they knew their ads were not being looked at.
If Facebook were to start charging for the privilege of using their site I would stop using it.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 27, 2012, 06:57:11 PM
While you may not be bothered by what they learn about you, I'm not sure that's the best policy for all FB users. The vast majority are simply ignorant about what they (both FB and the users) are doing. Despite what you have heard, what you don't know can hurt you. Many people are discovering this too late in their experince with FB and other "social networking" sites. The fact is, we have no idea what they have collected nor who they've sold it to, much less if it ever gets deleted.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 28, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Some interesting comments, also.<Google asked to yank a million search results a month> by John P. Mello Jr., PCWorld May 25, 2012 2:56 pm
Post by: Xairbusdriver on June 04, 2012, 02:54:16 PM
Won't be of much help for those of us who have already canceled our accounts, of course.BTW, the paper had an article, most likely syndicated, explaining how the FB stock offering helped businesses see the difference between a "user" and a "customer." Something most FB users seems not to understand.