Post by: prin on March 10, 2013, 03:43:56 PM
I'm unsure where to begin other than what I noted in my Topic Description. I have two Macs - an iMac and a MacBook Pro. The iMac details (older model - I bought used in probably early 2010). I think Tiger or Leopard (?) might've been the original OS but I upgraded to Snow Leopard (I think). [My MacBook Pro (15") is more recent - I bought in summer 2010 from Apple. It runs Snow Leopard - I have felt insecure about upgrading either computer to Mountain Lion.] But for this post, my burdensome concerns are about the iMac. Here are the details (as I know them):
iMac OS X 10.6.8
Processor 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo
Memory 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM
Under System Preferences, System - the Startup Disk has a ? on it. Why?
When I click Startup Disk - choices are
Mac OS X, 10.6.8 on the disk "Macintosh HD"
and the above-mentioned Network Startup (with that ? on it)
I selected the 1st option. I don't understand the 2nd one. I think my Airport Extreme (to connect my MacBook Pro) is considered
a Network, yes? Should I switch to Network as the Startup Disk? What will happen if I do that?
Under that is "Click to restart this computer in target disk mode (button next to that says "Target Disk Mode")
After you restart this computer in target disk mode, you can connect it to another computer using a FireWire cable
and use it as a hard disk." I have no clue what any of that means. What? Really? Why? Where? How?
With all that said (I'm truly sorry this is so long and wordy) - the problems that started a couple of days ago -
1. My husband was using Safari, was checking scores on ESPN when the spinner thingy ran and ran and ran (I told him I thought that had to do with March Madness, ESPN itself and the slower speed of the iMac). Because it kept spinning, he tried to quit Safari but couldn't so he did a "hard" shut down of the iMac (prior to that, while trying to quit Safari, Firefox popped up as active although hubby says he didn't cause that so I have since disabled FF). I believe him because when I was examining the iMac last night, I saw it doing weird things but am at a loss as to how to describe.
2. I restarted the computer - had to restart SEVERAL times (UGH). Finally, I got a white screen, no Apple logo, no nothing. Finally, between 10-20 minutes, I got the Apple logo, spinning thingy, finally loaded, got blue screen, then finally got my desktop. Examined as best System Preferences. I couldn't find what was causing all these problems. (Extensions? Am clueless.) So I decided to restart. Went through entire ordeal again - two more times. Masochistic of me.
3. Next, I noticed that when I put the iMac to sleep, when I tried to turn off mouse, computer would wake up. I checked settings on mouse - nothing seems to have changed.
Again, I regret my half-a**ed explanation of problems is so long - am sure you will have questions galore. If you make recommendations, please walk me through because I've been away from this site for a long time and don't know much anyway. Could all the problems just be caused by current outer space activity?
Am I going to need to buy a new or refurb iMac? 
Thank you. Huge sigh.
Post by: jchuzi on March 10, 2013, 05:49:01 PM
1. 2 GB RAM is way too low for running Snow Leopard (that's 10.6). If you find everything to be too slow, adding more RAM should give the computer a big shot in the arm.
2. You should select the Macintosh HD as the startup disk. Forget about the network. That only is relevant if you have another computer that can be used (over a network, naturally) to run yours.
3. Target Disk Mode is used if you want to use your computer as a virtual hard drive when connecting it to another computer. Since that doesn't seem to be relevant, you can forget about it.
4. The slowness of Safari could be due to insufficient RAM, but you can also do some housecleaning. Go to the Safari menu and click Empty Cache (and follow through, of course). That might very well clean out some detritus and it won't harm anything. You said that you saw the Mac doing "weird things". It's a tad difficult to make a diagnosis based on that description of symptoms. What, specifically, happened?
Tell Hubby that if a program (Safari, for example) is frozen, he doesn't have to do a forced shutdown. Go to the Apple menu and select Force Quit. From the new window, select the recalcitrant app and follow the prompts.
5. For the problem of the loooong startup, try starting in Safe Mode. That does all these things. Since many diagnostics are performed during the process, it may take a loooong time to fully start. Then, restart normally and see if things are better.
When you post back, be as descriptive as you can. If you just give general symptoms, it will be harder to help you.
Oh, another thing:
What is the capacity of the hard drive and how much free space does it have? You can find out by selecting the Macintosh HD icon and then going to File and clicking Get Info. If the drive is filled to the gills, you're in for trouble. You want at least 10 GB of free space at all times.
Post by: prin on March 10, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
I realized I was all over the place but you were able to navigate through successfully to answer my most pressing problems - vague as they were. I do realize that "weird" isn't specific enough and will attempt to explain in a more descriptive manner when I repost in the future.
I'm good with lists and appreciate that you gave me one to follow. It looks ideal. I will follow the steps you listed, but it looks like I'd better check the capacity of the HD first.
Adding RAM - I'm embarrassed to admit, but I didn't realize I could add RAM to an iMac.
Hubby/Safari/Apple Menu - evidently, he couldn't see or get to the Apple menu, but I wasn't in the same room so I'm not sure. 'Seems there was a bit of (understandable) stress in his experience.
Safari cache - I had already done that as I do it regularly. Thank you for the advice though.
I will post once again once I've determined HD capacity, and if it's fine, then I'll start in Safe Mode to see if the problems settle down.
Again, thanks so much for intuiting what I was trying to say. I'll be back.
Regards,
M
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 10, 2013, 10:54:16 PM
Force Quit Menu
The "new window" will look similar to this:
Of course, the "recalcitrant" app's name will be
in red text and will have some text to the right
of its name saying something like:
"XYZ is not responding."
Additional questions:
- How many apps do you normally have running? Especially when you saw the spinning pizza thingy?
Do you have any backups? Do you have any external hard drives?
Are you using Time Machine?
Do you have any maintenance applications?
Post by: jchuzi on March 11, 2013, 05:57:07 AM
1. Press Command-Option-esc simultaneously. That gets you to the Force Quit window that Jim provided.
2. Hold the mouse down on the recalcitrant app's Dock icon while simultaneously pressing Option. In a moment, you'll see a popup window that has Force Quit as an option. (If you don't press Option, it says Quit rather than Force Quit. Simply press Option to change that to Force Quit.)
Ordinarily, the Apple menu is available from any and all applications.
Post by: tacit on March 12, 2013, 06:56:24 PM
"Network Startup" means "ignore the hard drive on this computer. Don't start from it. Instead, start scanning the network for an Apple file server. When you find one, ask it what to do to start up."
The spinning beachball means that the computer has run out of RAM and is now trying to move stuff to the hard drive to free up RAM. Your computer doesn't have nearly enough RAM, as XABD said; you need to add more. (It's cheap.)
Post by: jchuzi on March 12, 2013, 07:36:26 PM
QUOTE(tacit @ Mar 12 2013, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It sounds like your computer took a long time to start up because the "?" was selected as the startup disk. This might mean it couldn't tell what to start from, or it might mean that somehow the network startup got chosen.
I haven't read anything about this with Snow Leopard, but in the past, selecting a network as the startup disk produced a globe symbol. If no network was detected, the computer eventually started from the internal hard drive.BTW, just to nitpick, I was the one that suggested adding more RAM.
Post by: prin on March 13, 2013, 11:21:29 AM
Now to answer your questions - you asked –
1. Additional questions:
- How many apps do you normally have running? Especially when you saw the spinning pizza thingy? Husband rarely runs other apps. As far as I know, he had nothing else open, odd that it might be.
2. Do you have any backups? Do you have any external hard drives? Nope, been shopping for one since I filled up my LaCie external HD. (Don't yell - I KNOW I need backup - fast.)
3. Are you using Time Machine? No.
4. Do you have any maintenance applications? No. Names please?
Remaining space on HD: 123 GB.
Thanks again,
M
Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 13, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
QUOTE
Under System Preferences, System - the Startup Disk has a ? on it.
Can you possibly show us a screen capture of that window? If you need help capturing that image, look at the instructions by opening the System Preferences and selecting "Keyboard." Hopefully, your panel will look similar enough to the image below to see what keys to use. You can also just type something like "shortcuts" in the search area of the System Prefs window and it should highlight the Keyboard panel for you.
During a Start Up, I think a "?" normally means is that the Mac is having trouble finding the 'Operating System' code on your disk(s). It must be eventually finding the code, but it is probably taking quite a bit of time. It may actually be another indication of a shortage of RAM.
It may just mean the disk needs some repair work, like moving fragmented file pieces into 'sequential' places on the drive.
Post by: prin on March 13, 2013, 11:31:20 AM
For many reasons, I haven't yet done your #5 below - but I certainly will. When you say "may take a loooong time to fully start" - should I prepare for hours? And, I wanted to answer your Q about capacity and remaining memory: 200GB (it's never really that much - but more like 194GB) with 123 GB free. Do you all offer ideas (I realize you probably don't recommend) about where to buy RAM or the best RAM brand? I've looked at two sites so far - http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memor.../Intel_Core_Duo and http://www.macmemory.com/collections/imac-...els-4-1-4-2-5-2
And, should I be prepared to add it (which means I must learn how - I'm willing) or take it somewhere to be added?
Many thanks again!
M
5. For the problem of the loooong startup, try starting in Safe Mode. That does all these things. Since many diagnostics are performed during the process, it may take a loooong time to fully start. Then, restart normally and see if things are better.
Post by: prin on March 13, 2013, 11:45:51 AM
QUOTE(tacit @ Mar 12 2013, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It sounds like your computer took a long time to start up because the "?" was selected as the startup disk. This might mean it couldn't tell what to start from, or it might mean that somehow the network startup got chosen."Network Startup" means "ignore the hard drive on this computer. Don't start from it. Instead, start scanning the network for an Apple file server. When you find one, ask it what to do to start up."The spinning beachball means that the computer has run out of RAM and is now trying to move stuff to the hard drive to free up RAM. Your computer doesn't have nearly enough RAM, as XABD said; you need to add more. (It's cheap.)
Hi xairbusdriver,I can't get to it today but I will send as soon as I can. I deeply appreciate how everyone is so clear when explaining steps I should take! Regards,MQUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 13 2013, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Correct, Jon made the suggestion to increase RAM.
QUOTE
Under System Preferences, System - the Startup Disk has a ? on it.
Can you possibly show us a screen capture of that window? If you need help capturing that image, look at the instructions by opening the System Preferences and selecting "Keyboard." Hopefully, your panel will look similar enough to the image below to see what keys to use. You can also just type something like "shortcuts" in the search area of the System Prefs window and it should highlight the Keyboard panel for you.Post by: Xairbusdriver on March 13, 2013, 12:19:29 PM
Not sure about what numbers you're using to answer the "amount of memory" questions. One sounds like the space on your hard drive: 400GB with ~338GB available. I'm not sure what the other figures you posted are. Is that an external drive?
QUOTE
200GB (it's never really that much - but more like 194GB) with 123 GB free
BTW, I think you may be using the "+Quote" button before clicking the "Reply" button to answer questions in a post. There's usually no real need to do that, it just makes the page longer by including all the post you were 'quoting.' Just use the "Reply" button or even the "Fast Reply" window at the bottom of the thread. If you want some of the 'styling' buttons, you can always click the "More Options" button at the bottom of the Fast Reply section to go to the huge, regular Post Editing screen. You can always copy some of the questions and paste them into your answering post. Then tack on a
CODE
[quote]
on the front and a CODE
[/quote]
at the end. There are more instructions on posting in the list of topics on the Forum Index page.[beginning of stupid joke]
I'd appreciate your taking a few dozen hours out of your day for a couple of weeks to learn all the details of using the Forums. I assume you didn't notice the mention of a test (usually a month after you register) in the Terms and Conditions page.
[/end of joke, but not stupidity]
Post by: jchuzi on March 13, 2013, 05:14:30 PM
An "expected" startup up time in Safe Mode is 10 minutes or so. If there are a lot of problems, it may be longer but it's possible that those problems will be fixed, resulting in a much shorter normal startup.
Do you all offer ideas (I realize you probably don't recommend) about where to buy RAM or the best RAM brand? I've looked at two sites so far - http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memor.../Intel_Core_Duo and http://www.macmemory.com/collections/imac-...els-4-1-4-2-5-2
I'm not familiar with the second site, but the first is an excellent choice. In fact, it would be a good idea to do the transaction via telephone rather than the internet. In my experience, that company's sales staff is very knowledgeable and should be able to give you excellent advice. If you search their website, you may very well find that there is a video showing how to install RAM in your iMac. Your owner's manual ought to have instructions as well. Rest assured that it's very easy.
Other recommendations are 18004memory and Crucial. Be sure that the RAM modules have a lifetime replacement warranty. Whatever you do, don't buy RAM from Apple; it's way overpriced.
Do you have any maintenance applications? No. Names please?
Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, and Drive Genius are all very good. The first is my favorite but it is limited to rebuilding the directory (although it's probably the best of the three for that). For more info, read Do you need a third-party disk utility?. A good (and free) utility to have is OnyX.
Post by: jchuzi on March 13, 2013, 08:14:41 PM
1. Read When good Macs go bad: Steps to take when your Mac won't start up (if push comes to shove). Note that the reinstall option refers to Mountain Lion. For tips about reinstalling Snow Leopard (if it comes to that), see this Google search page. Yes, I know that Apple's recommendation is for at least 1 GB RAM, but even twice that is too little. If you are adding RAM, I recommend going to the maximum that your iMac can handle. RAM is cheap. You can't be too thin, too rich, or have too much RAM.
2. A weak or dead internal backup battery can cause weird problems. Unfortunately for you, it is not user-replaceable in iMacs. (If you had a Mac Pro, that would be a different story.) There's no way to tell unless you test the battery (and even that isn't always definitive). Save this info in case all else fails because you'll have to take the computer to a service tech to do the job.
Post by: Frances144 on March 14, 2013, 05:27:19 AM
Also I recommend Onyx. It is a free housekeeping app and is useful for just getting rid of the rubbish and doing a spot of tidying up.
Good luck.