Post by: dplank on July 11, 2013, 01:30:26 PM
I have a late 2008 Macbook Pro whose drive I suspect is on it's last legs. I am wondering if the old hard drive can be replaced with a new SSD. I know the optical drive can be relaced a la OWC data doubler, but the hard drive is what I'm concerned with.
Thanks
Post by: gunug on July 11, 2013, 01:39:11 PM
Later I was poking around the iFixit website and found this page which talks about putting SSD's into late 2011 15" Macbook Pro:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+Mac...lacement/7513/1
Post by: RNKIII on July 11, 2013, 02:27:48 PM
Bob K. rnkiii
Post by: Xairbusdriver on July 11, 2013, 03:02:59 PM
Post by: dplank on July 11, 2013, 07:01:26 PM
To Xairbusdriver: That's a good question, but wouldn't a no-moving-parts drive be much more reliable than the standard hard drivea and thus prolong the life of a Macbook Pro?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on July 11, 2013, 07:27:42 PM
If the mother board ( or the display or the CPU or... whatever) dies, it won't be because of the type of drive you have. I'm just playing 'devil's advocate.' SSDs are still quite expensive and I'm just suggesting you might put those funds toward a new (or newer) laptop. I just love to watch people second guess themselves!! I like company!! 
Post by: rgray on July 11, 2013, 09:02:06 PM
The hot ticket around these parts seems to be to replace the hard drive with a smallish and hence cheaper SSD big enough for the OS and main apps, etc and replace the optical drive with a honking big 7200rpm drive for all data, media files etc.... This is a recipe that works on almost any configuration of laptop (even on PCs).
You'll have to be the judge of whether your MacBook Pro is in good enough shape to be worthy of the investment although the particular model you quote seems to be pretty robust.
Post by: gunug on July 11, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
Post by: rgray on July 12, 2013, 07:29:54 AM
QUOTE(gunug @ Jul 11 2013, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SSD's have a lifespan just like all other electronic devices.
Indeed. The parameter is called "mean cycles before failure".
But I think the point is that a hard disk is not only an electronic device, more importantly it is a mechanical device not all that different from an old fashioned phonograph or stereo turntable. All things considered being equal, the electronic device will have a longer life than the mechanical - where the motor, the arms that carry the read/write heads are all subject to wear and failure independent of and in addition to the electronic components - in particular, in the case of laptop computers, gravitational shocks.
Post by: dplank on July 12, 2013, 10:43:10 AM
Another thought on this same topic. Which is more likely to fail: mother board or hard drive?
Post by: rgray on July 12, 2013, 11:34:32 AM
QUOTE(dplank @ Jul 12 2013, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks, everyone for your thoughts. I guess I'll have to rethink the SSD thing.
Another thought on this same topic. Which is more likely to fail: mother board or hard drive?
Another thought on this same topic. Which is more likely to fail: mother board or hard drive?
The hard drive. No question about it.
Post by: gunug on July 12, 2013, 11:56:11 AM
Post by: Xairbusdriver on July 12, 2013, 04:33:07 PM
Here are a few links for your enjoyment:
<SSD Myths and Legends, Storage Research.com>
<SSD vs HDD - life span, Tom's Hardware.com> Many additional links in this forum
<How Much I Write to Disk Per Day, interesting and comforting info and a link to the next site/source>
<Samsung SSD 840 (250GB) Review>
Post by: dplank on July 12, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
You've just made my decision even more complicated, although I may just go with a new hard drive.
Post by: rgray on July 12, 2013, 09:04:56 PM
QUOTE(dplank @ Jul 12 2013, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks again guys.
You've just made my decision even more complicated, although I may just go with a new hard drive.
You've just made my decision even more complicated, although I may just go with a new hard drive.
I know SSDs can give speed and I have helped with install and setup as I have a small Mac consultancy, but it is not clear to me the most efficient method of use. I tend to think as dplank that I would go with a big fast hard drive and keep the optical which I use quite a lot - my local library loans DVDs.....
I am interested in the Seagate hybrid drives which can now be had in 1T size.
Post by: tacit on July 15, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
QUOTE(dplank @ Jul 11 2013, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dear Sirs or Ms,
I have a late 2008 Macbook Pro whose drive I suspect is on it's last legs. I am wondering if the old hard drive can be replaced with a new SSD. I know the optical drive can be relaced a la OWC data doubler, but the hard drive is what I'm concerned with.
Thanks
I have a late 2008 Macbook Pro whose drive I suspect is on it's last legs. I am wondering if the old hard drive can be replaced with a new SSD. I know the optical drive can be relaced a la OWC data doubler, but the hard drive is what I'm concerned with.
Thanks
Can you do it? Yes.
Should you do it?
Replacing your hard drive with an SSD will make your computer faster. A LOT faster. Bootup will be faster, virtual memory will be faster, loading and saving files will be way faster. The processor itself won't be faster, so if you do a lot of processor intensive jobs like 3D video rendering, that won't be faster, but for everyday "normal" tasks the computer fill feel a whole lot faster.
Are SSDs more reliable than hard drives? Depends on what you mean by "more reliable."
They are physically tougher. If you drop your computer, you're likely to damage a mechanical hard drive; you won't hurt an SSD. The SSD is immune to bumps and jostles that can make a regular hard drive have problems.
However, SSDs have a limited life span. The flash memory can only be written to a certain number of times and then it wears out. SSD makers use all kinds of tricks to make sure the memory cells wear out evenly, but that's the fact of SSDs: you can write data a certain number of times and then they quit working.
Post by: Paddy on July 17, 2013, 08:01:44 AM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jul 12 2013, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with the plan rgray described. The extreme speed difference of SSDs makes the start up process (for the OS and/or an app) well worth the extra cost for many people. This method works because the SSD is mainly used for nothing but reading; it is accessed to install the OS/app as opposed to writing data to it. SSDs have two basic types and you may not even know which you are getting when you buy; try to find out Single Layer Cell (SLC) types are longer lasting than Multi-Layer Cell (MLC) types. Worse, as new devices come out with higher and higher GB sizes, their lifetimes are actually getting shorter; to increase the GBs, the usual method is to make smaller cells, smaller cells means more problems in maintaining the state of the bits, voltage leakage, etc. Mind you, your SSD will no doubt outlast your laptop! And it will probably outlast the new HD you're thinking about installing in place of the optical drive. But SSDs should be used for reading as opposed to writing to make them last as long as possible.
Here are a few links for your enjoyment:
<SSD Myths and Legends, Storage Research.com>
<SSD vs HDD - life span, Tom's Hardware.com> Many additional links in this forum
<How Much I Write to Disk Per Day, interesting and comforting info and a link to the next site/source>
<Samsung SSD 840 (250GB) Review>
Here are a few links for your enjoyment:
<SSD Myths and Legends, Storage Research.com>
<SSD vs HDD - life span, Tom's Hardware.com> Many additional links in this forum
<How Much I Write to Disk Per Day, interesting and comforting info and a link to the next site/source>
<Samsung SSD 840 (250GB) Review>
Well, I hope that Apple engineers have read and addressed the issues discussed in this paper;
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/confere...t13-final80.pdf
If not, they may find themselves doing a few warranty replacements for the new Mac Pros, unless they're also going to tell every purchaser to buy a good UPS too! Either that or all their flash drives are from manufacturer "A2" - enquiring minds would like to know just which manufacturer/SSD that was!!!!
(BTW, I find it most peculiar that it wasn't pointed out in the paper that the two drives in the study with no corruption or damage HAD POWER LOSS PROTECTION capacitors and gee, maybe every SSD should have that? Judging by the price per GB, those weren't even enterprise class drives, though they were the most recently manufactured, indicating that perhaps SSD manufacturers have become aware of the problem of power loss and addressed it. Again, enquiring minds would like to know...)
Post by: Paddy on July 17, 2013, 08:40:23 AM
http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/seagat...oss-protection/
http://thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-...ex-2013-update/
http://www.micron.com/products/solid-state...nt-ssd/m500-ssd
Not an issue with a laptop though - just an interesting digression.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on July 17, 2013, 10:01:09 AM
QUOTE
Not an issue with a laptop though
That might be due to the fact that many laptops have a battery... For the lazy among us... OK, me, could you summarize the info in those links? Small, non-technical words, no more than 25 for each link, please? 
While I don't mind inserting dozens of links in my posts, I very much dislike it in others! 
It's one of the few cases where people should not do as I do! SSDs seem to have the same 'aura' about them that CDs/DVDs had years ago. "This new technology is perfect! It will last forever! It is the wave of the future! Life will not be the same after today!" At least they got the 'life-being-different-every-day' part right, but that has nothing to do with CDs/DVDs/SSDs...
Oh well, I guess the big difference in my today is that I need to go read some info on at least four sites! 
later...
I liked the first SSCDReview article, the second one was too short. The PR page from Micron is somewhat lacking in facts, probably written by the sales department...
I am sending you a bill for the Emergency Room visit made due to hitting my head when I fell asleep reading that last 'white paper!' The only thing they did cover was why people use the same font and size on illustration citations as in the body text. Three blank lines does not a good separator make...
I re-re-re-read the text under an illustration and the following body text at least 10 times before I realized it was not an editing/printing error! I think that's when my dizziness started. Even our local paper points back to the previous location!I'm just glad I didn't have my glasses on or I'd probably be needing a new pair! Don't believe anyone who says keyboards are not dangerous!
