Post by: Lindsay on July 18, 2003, 09:42:17 AM
1. InstallerVISE will not run under any circumstances.
2. When I run Disk Utility from a boot CD, it crashes when it encounters the error named "Keys out of order."
Starting up in single-user (Unix) mode and running fsck -y delivers this message:
Keys out of order
(4, 12737)
**Rebuilding catalog B-tree
I have run fsck -y four times and gotten identical results each time. I rebuilt permissions twice and reset PRAM 4 times. This was on the advice of MBS in Gaithersburg, MD, which sold it to me. The extended Hardware Test revealed no problems.
Apart from the 2 operations above, the iMac behaves normally.
What IS this?
Lindsay
Post by: kelly on July 18, 2003, 10:31:09 AM
Disk First Aid: What to Do When It Finds an Error
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13628
You are in danger of losing all your data. I have in the past for this.
Do you have it backed up or a way to back it up?
For sure run Disk Utility from the Installer CD.
It may take Disk Warrior though. If even that will work.
I recommend the latest OS X Version.
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/diskwarr...rrior3info.html
Post by: Lindsay on July 18, 2003, 12:26:25 PM
Yep. The data are backed up.
>For sure run Disk Utility from the Installer CD.
Running Disk Utility from the Installer CD results in a crash when DU encounters "keys out of order."
My TechTool boot CD will not run at all in OS 10 mode, but I don't think this is related to the problem. I think it is just a bad disk.
Disk Warrior sounds like a worthwhile purchase, but it will take several days to arrive.
So, there's nothing for it, but to reformat the hard disk? Looks like it. [sigh]
Lindsay
Post by: ljocampo on July 18, 2003, 11:57:48 PM
Since you said that this is your only problem, I'd call Alsoft now for a rush copy of Disk Warrior 3. I'd be willing to bet my booties that DW3 can fix this problem and save you the re-format. I had similar strange problems and DW3 worked them.
Post by: Gary S on July 19, 2003, 09:18:51 AM
i have the same idea. DW is really good with Directories!
Post by: kps on July 19, 2003, 10:34:01 AM
Post by: ljocampo on July 19, 2003, 03:23:08 PM
Post by: Lindsay on July 21, 2003, 09:24:11 AM
Somewhat frustrated, I asked the technician at MacBusiness Systems who has been helping me via email what disk repair utility he recommends. He said he mostly uses Drive 10, although he liked Disk Warrior too. Drive 10 was available at once, so I got it. It will most likely arrive Tuesday.
Micromat has a promotion on now, where if you get Drive 10 you will get the newest version of TechTool free, when it ships next month.
In the meantime, the iMac keeps going.
Lindsay
Post by: ljocampo on July 21, 2003, 03:41:19 PM
I hope drive 10 can fix your problem, but I seriously doubt it can. I have Drive 10 and it has never fixed a file problem for me yet. However, since I'm wrong at least 50% of the time, it's a coin flip
Im crossing my fingers for you to succeed. Let us know!
Post by: Lindsay on July 21, 2003, 04:36:19 PM
I'm wrong at least 50% of the time, too. I'll let you know.
BTW, how do you create an OS 10 boot disk? Disk Warrior 3 can be downloaded from the Alsoft site, but you gotta have that boot disk . . .
Lindsay
Post by: pendragon on July 21, 2003, 05:11:03 PM
Harv
Post by: ljocampo on July 21, 2003, 05:18:57 PM
It easy to make. First, go to downloads.com or another place like it, and get the program called bootCD, then the bootCD will talk you through the process of creating an OSX bootable disk. The program will ask you what utilities you want on the boot disk. In your case DW3 and any others you think will help you in an emergency. BootCD works fine, I've used it, but it is very very slow when booting the computer, so many people think it's frozen or crashed. It's not, just slow booting so patience is important. The boot disk loads normally by hold the "C" key. Once booted you can run DW3 and rebuild your directories. I suspect you'll have corruption, if so, DW3 will ask you if you want to fix it, so don't leave the computer, until then. Good luck!
Post by: Lindsay on July 22, 2003, 09:17:14 AM
If only. I moved to Pennsylvania in May. I now am about 12 miles south of Pittsburgh.
Lindsay
Post by: pendragon on July 22, 2003, 09:21:40 AM
Sorry I was not of help.
Harv
Post by: Lindsay on July 22, 2003, 09:53:50 AM
Not hardly. You still live in a great place for Mac users. Do you know about the new Apple store that started up in the OBA bank building on 355? I know about it because OBA was and is my bank (there was no need to change).
In the entire Pittsburgh area, there is only one Mac store -- on the other side of town. Its name is MacOutfitters.
>Sorry I was not of help.
Well, I was the one who moved.
At least there is TechSurvivors. The advice I have been getting here about this disk error is better than the advice I got anywhere else . Apple thought it was a hardware problem; even authorized a warranty repair. MacOutfitters told me, over the phone, that the only solution was to reformat the hard disk. MBS in Gaithersburg gave me some good trouble-shooting advice, though the guy who helped me advocated for Drive 10 over Disk Warrior.
Lindsay
Post by: Gary S on July 22, 2003, 10:02:12 AM
Do you have another drive you could connect and you can boot from?
The reason I ask is that you could run DW fron another drive and fix the one with the bad Directory. You could download DW and run it from the other drive
Post by: Lindsay on July 22, 2003, 03:26:11 PM
I found BootCD, downloaded it, downloaded Disk Warrior, and burned the startup CD per BootCD's instructions.
After 15 minutes, I had nothing but a blue screen and the pointer, and all was quiet. At that point, I lost faith.
Lindsay
Post by: ljocampo on July 22, 2003, 03:33:43 PM
[Do you have another drive you could connect and you can boot from?]
This advise from GaryS is ideal, and better than a bootCD. An bootable external disk or another partition internally can solve your boot problem. Also if you have a Mac laptop or can borrow a friends laptop, you can hook them up in target disk mode, to get the same affect.
Post by: ljocampo on July 22, 2003, 03:38:13 PM
I know faith is hard to come by, but I do remember that it took about that long in blue screen. You might have jumped the gun by a few seconds. Give it more time, you've got nothing to lose. Just go for coffee.
Post by: Lindsay on July 23, 2003, 11:33:32 AM
I have a G3 Powerbook, but realized last night I didn't have a firewire cable. Will get one and try target mode, using the version of DW that works with OS 9 -- as the Powerbook is not up to running OS 10.
I gave BootCD 45 minutes to boot up. The iMac went to sleep. When I woke it up, I saw a . . . blue screen. I concluded that life is not long enough to boot up using that method.
And you all were right about Drive 10. It took more than 2 hours to scan the hard disk before it told me it could not make any repairs. Wasted money and wasted time. I calculate since I tried to fix this problem I have lost the equivalent of 3 working days.
This troubleshooting of mine is snake-bit.
Lindsay
Post by: Lindsay on July 31, 2003, 09:25:31 PM
Disk Warrior crashed within a minute or two when it tried to repair the hard disk. It couldn't even graph the disk.
I can only wonder what kind of disk error is severe enough to crash Disk Warrior and Disk Utilty, but not disable the iMac except for one operation: it cannot run InstallerVise.
Lindsay
Post by: ljocampo on July 31, 2003, 10:31:08 PM
I'm sorry things didn't work out the way we hoped. Sounds like the disk directory is beyond repair, except for a reformat. If you need to recover data from it first, I'd try Prologic's Data Rescue X ($80 US). I used it for a disk that wouldn't even mount on the desktop, and it recovered my vital data nicely. I thought I'd never get the data back, but this program managed to do it.
Post by: Lindsay on August 01, 2003, 09:27:31 AM
You've been helpful in that I have learned a lot about troubleshooting the iMac. I have owned this computer for only 10 months, and didn't pay as much attention as I should have to how it is different from previous Macs.
I am a technical editor (medicine & pharmacy). Files are backed up, in duplicate, on CDs and Zip disks. I work in a home office, and will wait until the immediate project is done until I reformat.
When I orginally called Apple about this problem, 2 weeks ago, Apple thought it was hardware rather than a software problem.
A technician at MBS, where I bought the computer last year. suggested I do a clean reinstallation of the system software. There's no point in doing that, is there?
Lindsay
(I hope that someday I will be able to -give- advice on the TS rather than just take it.)
Post by: kelly on August 01, 2003, 10:11:07 AM
The Directory is messed up.
You're on a Fault Line that could go any minute.
Remodeling the House built on it won't help.
Don't know why those particular items won't work.
Just one of those things.
You've been lucky it's working as well as it is.
All computers and OSs need Drive Utilities for maintenence and repair.
Even OS X, though it seems to need it less than most.
Repairing Permissions now and then seems to help a lot.
http://www.macattorney.com/tutorial.html
Post by: ljocampo on August 01, 2003, 03:43:10 PM
Lindsay: The advise here is always give and take. If we have an experience to offer, we love sharing it on TS. You have given us plenty satifaction, I, and others I'm sure, have enjoyed your lovely prose, and heart felt enjoyment of using TS. Thanks, and keep those post coming.
Post by: Lindsay on August 02, 2003, 09:27:28 AM
Lovely prose?! How kind you are. And yes, I plan to keep hanging around the TS. I like this place.
Lindsay