Print Page - Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?

Welcome to Techsurvivors => Tech => Topic started by: Raven on May 05, 2015, 08:21:27 PM

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 05, 2015, 08:21:27 PM

Similar question as posted by Jack W.
I've been waiting too long to upgrade.
It's a bit slow now in my design business, so now's a good time to do this.

Can I go from 10.6.8 to 10.9ish in ONE step?
OR should I download to OSX10.10?
Frankly, I prefer to stay one OS behind. There always seem to be issues (fonts, apps, peripherals, etc) when I go to the most current OS.
Where do I get OSX10.9 or OSX10.10?

I'm using iMac 24". 8 gb RAM. 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo.
OSX10.6.8
Epson Perfection 2400 scanner
Lexmark E260dn laser printer
HP OfficejetPro K550

My main apps are:
Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign CS6.
Freehand MX (I know it won't work anymore)
Pages 2.0.2
Keynote 3.0.2
Font Agent Pro 4.140
MS Word 2008

KISS!

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 05, 2015, 09:39:34 PM

The only OS available from the Apple mothership is OS X 10.10. Now that upgrades are free, they only stay with current versions for downloading... unlike some who like to "stay on OS behind"

Although it would appear that some are not quite following that advice, either!

Review that thread of Jack's and I think you'll find that Mavericks is not available from any reputable source. I do know of one source, but I can't vouch for his reputation...

A couple of your apps make me wonder if you've kept up with some major changes in them. Apple has re-engineered the iWorks suite so that it will work on the iOS. That means a major step backwards in capabilities for all three apps; you just can't expect those tiny, slow, non-desktop-capable CPU's to be able to do what the old versions do.

The worst part of this change is that the new versions will attempt to open any .pages., .keynote, and. numbers file you have IF YOU SIMPLY DOUBLE-CLICK THE FILE! That has been a standard way of opening files (even in Windows) for decades, and it can be a very hard habit to break. What will break you of the habit is when you open a file that way, make an edit (assuming you can even do that in the new app) and then save the file.

What you have just done will always and forever prevent you from using the old apps on that file. Period.

You'll hopefully only do this once. And you'll discover the error of your ways immediately, not a few months later after you've "updated" lots of files!

BTW, Pages (old version) is actually at 4.3, Keynote is at 5.3. You can probably still find updates to those versions on-line, probably not at Apple, however.

The good news is that these old versions still work!

It can just be a hassle to learn new habits and the occasional, but continuously nagging update notices to the new versions.

Others can help you with your other SW questions.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Paddy on May 05, 2015, 11:28:31 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 5 2015, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd just go straight to Yosemite. I've got it running on both my Macs (a 2008 Mac Pro, and a 2013 MacBook Pro Retina) with no issues. 8GB of RAM should be ok - and you cannot add more to that iMac, unfortunately.

Here's a good discussion - someone who did what you're contemplating. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6817896

Adobe CS6 is fine in Yosemite (and I did NOT have to reinstall it - contrary to what one of the posters says in that thread. MS Office 2008 works fine in Yosemite. You'll need to upgrade Pages etc. - as Jim says, Pages 5 and its kin are crippleware. But you can get iWork '09 for a mere $23.99 from Amazon - so that's not a biggie. http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB942Z-A-iWork-09/dp/B0014X2UAK You will, of course, have to put up with the nagging to update to the new crippled versions - you'll get nagged at least once a day with the updates notifier, unless you turn it off completely (which I don't consider a good thing, since you won't get notifications on OS updates, security updates etc. either, if you do that.)

No idea whether the older version of FontAgentPro will work - the version number isn't listed at http://roaringapps.com (where you can check OS compatibility on most software). The upgrade to the current version is $49.95 and can be downloaded from http://www.insidersoftware.com/FA_pro4_upgrade.php - who, btw, say they do NOT support earlier versions of the software with Yosemite. Not supported and doesn't work are two different things - can't find any info, but didn't spend much time looking. You'll have to Google it.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 06, 2015, 07:24:57 AM

I went from 10.6.8 to 10.10 (migrating, not updating) and had no problem. The only issue with MS Office 2008 (and I don't know if this happens in 10.9) is that I keep being pestered, when I open any Office app, by a message asking if I want to allow or deny incoming connections. It takes less than a second to click Allow and then it doesn't bother me again unless I relaunch the app. At first, I would often get the spinning beachball when clicking Allow but I solved that by uninstalling MS Messenger, which I never use anyway.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 06, 2015, 09:47:48 AM

jchuzi,
Not sure exactly what you mean by migrating versus updating. Can you explain exactly what you did, please?

Paddy,
Read the apple discussion link you provided. It sounds more complicated than I want. Which makes me wary. I'll digest that info some more and maybe upgrade this weekend. Thanks!

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 06, 2015, 10:19:42 AM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 6 2015, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

jchuzi,

Not sure exactly what you mean by migrating versus updating. Can you explain exactly what you did, please?

Updating would have meant converting my existing version of 10.6 into 10.10 by downloading it and running the installer over my existing installation.*

That was not an option for me because my Mac Pro could not handle any OS higher than 10.7. So, I bought a Retina 5K iMac and transferred all data to it from the Mac Pro. Read Move your content to a new Mac for details. BTW, I ended up using a Firewire 800-Thunderbolt adapter to connect the two Macs after booting the Mac Pro into Target Disk Mode.

*Actually, this refers to upgrading, not updating. Updating means that you change an existing OS into a higher version of the same OS, as in going from 10.6.7 to 10.6.8. Upgrading, on the other hand, means that you change the OS into a completely new OS, as in going from 10.6.x to 10.10.x.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Paddy on May 06, 2015, 01:02:16 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 6 2015, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

jchuzi,Not sure exactly what you mean by migrating versus updating. Can you explain exactly what you did, please?Paddy,Read the apple discussion link you provided. It sounds more complicated than I want. Which makes me wary. I'll digest that info some more and maybe upgrade this weekend. Thanks!

Raven, there is nothing particularly complicated about it - you download it and install it. The issues the OP in that thread had were nothing to do with the actual OS, but instead things he had installed, like Trusteer, which I gather has something to do with British banking.The important thing is to have a complete backup CLONE, which you can use to revert to 10.6.8 if you have any major issues, and of course, which will protect your data in the very remote chance anything goes terribly wrong. I recommend both a clone (Carbon Copy Cloner, or my weapon of choice, SuperDuper!) AND a TimeMachine backup. You can run them on the same drive in different partitions, though of course, if something happens to the backup drive, you've lost BOTH your backups, so that's not the best approach. Drives are cheap...data, time and effort isn't.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 06, 2015, 02:45:37 PM

Paddy's advice is right on. I always do exactly what she said regarding a SD clone and TM. I have never had an issue with a major system update, but I have had problems with others. To be specific, I updated Epson printer drivers from Apple and my printer refused to print. I might have spent hours troubleshooting, but it was easier to clone back from my SD backup, which only took about 10 minutes.This sort of thing has happened a couple of times and I've always been grateful for being obsessive about backups.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2015, 07:32:23 PM

A FEW MORE QUESTIONS:

Don't mean to be too anal about this, but I need to prevent any complications to able to continue to run my design business after I upgrade from 10.6.8 to 10.10...

1. I have 2 External Hard Drives - one with Carbon Copy Cloner (380 gb used out of 500 gb).
The other for Time Machine which stopped working a while back. So, I purchased a new Seagate 3 TB EHD. Probably a bit too large for my needs.
Does it matter which EHD I use for TM or CCC?

2. Because 100s of my graphic files were created in Freehand MX, which won't work in 10.10, is there any way I can keep a OSX10.6.8 on one of the EHD, in case I have to open or work in a FH file? Adobe Illustrator CS6 does now open vector based FH files, but it's not such a user friendly application.

3. If I upgrade to iWork 9, can I load it on 2 devices - iMac and MacBook Pro?

4. How can I check if my scanner and printers will work with 10.10 before I upgrade?

Thanks all!

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 10, 2015, 07:44:29 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 10 2015, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's take this one question at a time.

1. Generally, you want lots more space for Time Machine than your main drive has available. Personally, I would maintain a capacity at least twice the main drive for a TM backup. So, go with the new Seagate 3 TB drive.

2. You should be able to boot from your CCC clone and use Freehand MX when you need to. Macs can boot from USB, Firewire and Thunderbolt. If you want to back this up as well, you can create three partitions on the new Seagate to accommodate a TM backup on one partition and a clone of the clone on another, and a clone of 10.10.

3. I can't answer this question about iWork 9.

4. Check the websites of the scanner and printer manufacturers to see if they will work with 10.10. In the meantime, look at this Apple discussion thread about scanners and OS X: Printer and scanner software available for download

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 10, 2015, 09:14:39 PM

QUOTE

3. If I upgrade to iWork 9, can I load it on 2 devices - iMac and MacBook Pro?

First, I'd suggest you stop referring to iWorks '09 as an "upgrade". It will probably even confuse Apple!

It is actually and technically a degraded version of iWork 4 so it can also run on iDevices. There are fewer features, not more or improved ones.

It is free on any new Mac you buy. I don't think it is included on new OS installers, however. I believe the new versions are $20 each, unless you already have the old versions. However, pricing schemes change every year and I don't know if yours still are recognized as "current owner versions".

More to the point, I don't know of any secret files that would keep you from installing the new versions (bought or free) on as many Apple machines as you want. I believe the iDevice apps are $10 each.

WARNING! Opinion ahead! The absolute ONLY reason I would use the '09 version would be so I could use the iDevice versions also and interchangeably. The question of actually designing anything with them on an iDevice, is completely different, of course. I doubt many would do much creative work on an iPad mini, and certainly not on an iPhone. However, I can see a benefit of being able to demo your work on an iDevice (iPad) while not having to drag around a laptop. Unless/until you want to do that, I would simply avoid version 9 and its iOS siblings. But that's my opinion, and we all know what that's worth!

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2015, 09:34:03 PM

Xairbusdriver, I won't deal with the iWork issue for the moment.

Right now, I'm trying to connect my new Seagate 3Tb External Hard Drive to make a Time Machine back up. There is supposed to be a DMG icon on my desktop. But there is none. I've rebooted and nothing. Aargh! That's why I hate doing this stuff. :-(
A light was flashing on the unit when first plugged in and now it is a steady light.

The Seagate is a USB 3.0 unit connected to my 24" iMac which have USB 2 ports. Is that the problem?

It's plugged into a USB hub. Is that the problem as the other USB ports on the iMac are being used?
My other EHD is connected via Firewire.

So, how can I get the Seagate to work?

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 10, 2015, 09:43:12 PM

Ignore previous post. Unplugged, replugged and rebooted. Seagate finally showed up on the desktop. Backing everything up first. Back here later! :-)

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 10, 2015, 09:57:28 PM

I am assuming that either that is a self-powered USB hub or that there is nothing else connected to it. I am hoping for the former. USB 3 is backwards compatible with 2, but it also means you will get only USB 2 speeds.

Did you partition the drive at all? Although many don't like to do that, it does make more efficient use of all that space. One option would be a 400GB partition for 10.6 and FreeHand (even a smaller partition wold be fine, I think). That would still leave you with 1.5TB of TM backup space. What size is he internal drive you'll be backing up?

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 12:03:36 AM

Thanks, Xairbusdriver.
Just so I get this straight...

I will partition the Seagate EHD into 2 or 3.
Don't understand why you suggest a Clone of my new 10.10?
Isn't that what the two partitions for TM and CCC will do as back-up and archival purposes?
My other EHD is already a CCC device.

And the 3rd partition is for a clone of my current 10.6.8 working files with its OS? So, I can work on my Freehand files, if needed, as they only work in 10.6.8.
Is there any way to find and just save FH files in this partition? There are 1000s scattered in countless folders.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 11, 2015, 04:57:23 AM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 11 2015, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will partition the Seagate EHD into 2 or 3.
Don't understand why you suggest a Clone of my new 10.10?
Isn't that what the two partitions for TM and CCC will do as back-up and archival purposes?
My other EHD is already a CCC device.

And the 3rd partition is for a clone of my current 10.6.8 working files with its OS? So, I can work on my Freehand files, if needed, as they only work in 10.6.8.
Is there any way to find and just save FH files in this partition? There are 1000s scattered in countless folders.

As to suggesting that you clone 10.10, I'm paranoid enough to want two backups for everything, meaning one TM and one clone. Each has its advantages: You can boot from a clone and run your computer from it but it only has the files that you last cloned. You can't boot from TM but you can access older versions of files.

As to finding FH files on the 10.6 partition, you can set Spotlight to index it.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 10:02:29 AM

jchuzi,
I'm getting confused here, so let me get this clarified. Here's what I am setting up based on suggestions from TS people, as I upgrade from 10.6.8 to 10.10...

My existing EHD #1, 500 gb. It has 380 gb used so far with Carbon Copy Cloner which will soon clone 10.10 files.

New EHD #2, 3 Tb. Partitioned into...

Partition #1 - 1.5 gb for Time Machine
Partition #2 - 0.5 gb for cloning my current OSX10.6.8 so I can open my Freehand MX files in the future.

Xairbusdriver suggested a Partition #3 for cloning 10.10. Why? Doesn't my EHD#1 do that already?
So, do I need 2 or 3 partitions on my EHD #2?

Hope my explanation makes sense. Thanks!

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 11, 2015, 10:39:40 AM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 11 2015, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me assume that I'm in your place and planning my next moves.

The internal hard drive has 10.6.8 installed, correct? When ready to install 10.10, I would make sure that the clone is up to date and then run the 10.10 installer on the internal drive. That will upgrade everything while keeping all your accounts, files, etc. intact. You will have an installation that looks like the old one except that it is using 10.10. (Programs that cannot run in 10.10 will still be there but they won't launch.) The external clone will remain untouched. If, heaven forbid, something goes wrong, you can always boot from the clone, erase the internal and start over.

To use your old system, you can keep the 10.6.8 clone as is and boot from it when necessary.

Once you're up and running, I would maintain a TM backup of the 10.10 installation as well as a clone. I would also clone the 10.6.8 system regularly to another partition for this reason: If the drive that has 10.6.8 fails, you may not be able to recover it.

If any of my assumptions are false, or if anything isn't clear, post back.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 10:56:14 AM

jchuzi,

Loud and clear now. Much THANKS!

Now I've increased my RAM to maximum 8 gb on my 24" iMac.
I've repaired my internal disk using Disk Utility.
I've repaired permissions using DU.
My internal hard drive is cloned, as mentioned.

Anything else to do before I install 10.10?
I'm guessing I will find what apps and peripherals don't work thereafter?

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 11, 2015, 11:46:05 AM

You seem to have covered all the bases. For a heads-up about app compatibility, visit http://roaringapps.com

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 06:45:38 PM

Wow! Just read some of the comments on Yosemite. It has double the number of ONE star rating compared to FIVE Star.
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/os-x-yosemi...915041082?mt=12

Maybe I just upgrade to 10.9 instead? For now. Where do I find that 10.9?

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: jchuzi on May 11, 2015, 06:58:40 PM

QUOTE(Raven @ May 11 2015, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See this TS thread. I suggest that you send a PM to Xairbusdriver if you want 10.9. For what it's worth, I am having no problems with 10.10 but then, I never used 10.9 so I can't compare them. I went directly from 10.6.8 to 10.10.

Whatever you do, here are some suggestions:

Buy the appropriate Missing Manual book (David Pogue, author) about that OS. You can get it from Amazon. I bought the Yosemite book well in advance of upgrading so I had a pretty good idea what to expect. The Mavericks book should still be available also.

Don't assume that all your preferences will be preserved when you upgrade. Individual apps, likely, but not system preferences. The first thing that I did was to go through all the preference panes in System Preferences to customize my system.

Check the App Store for updates. Starting with 10.9, Software Update no longer exists. You have to go to the Apple menu and launch App Store. Then, click the Updates tab.

I suspect that the slowness reported by some people is the result of having too little RAM. Since you have 8 GB, that ought to be more than enough (Apple recommends 2 GB minimum). I can't speak about Photo vs. iPhoto because I don't use either, being a longtime Photoshop user.

EDIT: One more thing. You have Office 2008, as do I. It works fine in Yosemite with one annoyance. Read annoying "accept incoming network connection" message. I no longer get a spinning beachball when clicking Allow because I uninstalled MS Messenger (which I never use anyway). I live with this issue but it's not a real problem for me. I don't know if this occurs with Mavericks.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 08:56:46 PM

Are either one of these sites an option to download 10.9 so, I can try it for a while before going to 10.10?
http://download.cnet.com/Apple-Mac-OS-X-Ma...4-76018588.html

http://en.softonic.com/s/mac-os-x-10.9-download:mac

I just tried doing a Time Machine back up to my new EHD partition (1.5 gb) and it failed. It took a looooong time! Bummer. Do I just try again?

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 11, 2015, 09:04:53 PM

Haven't solved Problem #1 above, yet!

Now, Problem #2...
I tried to erase my new Time Machine EHD to change the partition sizes. There was no data on the drive yet.
But the Erasing failed: "Disk Erase failed with the error: Could not unmount disk"

Tried erasing the whole disk, and a single partition. Same error message. What gives??

That's why I hate these upgrades. Always something goes wrong! :-(

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 11, 2015, 09:33:12 PM

That's is usually because the OS thinks something is trying to use the drive. Just quit all apps and make sure you tell TM to stop using the drive and even turn it off. Also make sure Spotlight is not indexing that drive, that would not be advisable, anyway. You can also start up in <Safe Mode,> which should stop any non-Apple apps or Startup items from running. It might prevent that drive from mounting, however. If so, just restart normally.

There may be other problems, so let us know if the above steps don't help.

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Raven on May 12, 2015, 09:54:12 AM

I'm starting a new thread on a separate topic because my External Hard Drive is not working properly.

This is a Pain in the you know where! :-(

Title: Time to upgrade to OSX10.9 or 10.10?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 12, 2015, 12:22:06 PM

Details: Brand, model, connection method, hardware details, problem details, trouble shooting attempted, frequency of problem, etc..

<"Just the facts, ma'am.">