Post by: Raven on May 12, 2015, 10:06:23 AM
Backing up is giving me aggravations:
I set up my 2nd EHD with 3 partitions.
Tried using Time Machine at first to back up. It failed.
So, I thought I would erase drive and change size of partitions. Failed.
Tried to eject icons from desktop - "cannot eject because program is in use".
I Force Ejected. That worked.
Rebooted.
Used Disk Utility to repair EHD2.
Said everything was OK.
Started backing up with TM again last evening. Taking a looong time!
This morning - "Back up not performed. Error occurred. Use Disk Utility to repair back up disk". Aaargh!!!
Tried to Repair Disk again... "could not mount disk".
Tried to Erase Disk... "Volume Erase failed. Could not unmount disk"
Tried to Eject all - "wasn't ejected because one or more programs are using it"
ReBooted in SAFE MODE from advice received from a previous post.
Now am trying to use Time Machine again. Taking another loooong time! Will see if this back up works... in a few hours!
24" iMac. OSX 10.6.8.
with EHD #1 using Carbon Copy Cloner.
Post by: jchuzi on May 12, 2015, 10:24:58 AM
Another possibility is that Seagate is suffering from quality control issues (they have in the past). Take a gander at What is the Best Hard Drive?
Which brand of enclosure are you using for the EHD? That's a possible source of trouble as well. You could also plug it into a different USB port and see if that helps.
Post by: Raven on May 12, 2015, 11:35:33 AM
I don't have any anti virus software.
The Seagate Backup Plus USB 3.0 drive came in its own enclosure.
If I unplug the USB while TM is working and try another port, will it pick up where it left off or start all over?
Gawd, it's taking a loooong time. Did I say that already? ;-)
Post by: jchuzi on May 12, 2015, 11:53:48 AM
QUOTE(Raven @ May 12 2015, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
jchuzi,
If I unplug the USB while TM is working and try another port, will it pick up where it left off or start all over?
Gawd, it's taking a loooong time. Did I say that already? ;-)
Don't unplug it while it's working; you could damage data or, possibly, the drive. Instead, stop the backup and unmount the drive before switching ports.If I unplug the USB while TM is working and try another port, will it pick up where it left off or start all over?
Gawd, it's taking a loooong time. Did I say that already? ;-)
And yes, you said that already.
Patience is a virtue, or so I'm told.Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 12, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
Segate drives are not the most reliable. Especially not at<BackBlaze>. I think a search here will confirm that. Most of us recommend Hitachi (now HSGT) with 3 or more year warranties. We also recommend installing the HD in your own enclosure. While Seagate probably did install their own brand, other non-drive makers usually don't tell you what's in the box.
Post by: Raven on May 12, 2015, 03:36:52 PM
I left TM running, but, after several hours of backing up the second time, I get this message... again...
"the backup was not performed because an error occurred while copying files."
I'm tired of error messages! So much for me trying to upgrade to 10.10. :-(
Now the TM window is grayed out, and I can't even turn it ON/OFF or Select Disk.
Is this NEW Seagate drive toast or am I doing something wrong?
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 12, 2015, 03:48:16 PM
QUOTE
Is this NEW Seagate drive toast
It could be, these things usually either die of old age or un-boxing! You might try a different cable and/or a different port on the computer. I suspect you might get more info looking at the crash logs in Console (it's in your Utilities folder). Don't bother with TM until you determine the status of that drive.Do you have any other testing/maintenance software?
Although it should not be the cause, you might want to check your Energy Prefs and make sure the computer nor drives are set to sleep.
Post by: Raven on May 12, 2015, 03:53:56 PM
Just read the link to Backblaze. Interesting, but too complicated for me to understand... shucking? drive farming? etc. I just want to back up and upgrade my OS!!
How can I tell if my Seagate drive is toast? I purchased it at a Best Buy store 500 miles away. Now do I have to mail it back and order another drive?
*#$!%*/#+%!!!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 12, 2015, 04:01:00 PM
QUOTE
Just read the link to Backblaze. Interesting, but too complicated for me to understand
Not complicated at all; Seagate has some terrible problems, at least in 2014, we can only hope they've corrected them by now.QUOTE
do I have to mail it back and order another drive?
It would be better to have some facts and to call Seagate with them. I don't know whether Worst Buy will do anything unless you are face-to-face, and that's a long way to drive to find out. You should be able to call them, also. Either way, they'll want to know what, when, where, and why. They should also pay form shipping it back, even if they just plan on replacing it with a duplicate.
Post by: jchuzi on May 12, 2015, 06:45:10 PM
QUOTE(Raven @ May 12 2015, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How can I tell if my Seagate drive is toast?
One way, albeit not terribly reliable, is to check SMART status. Launch Disk Utility, select the drive in the DU window, and look at the bottom of the DU window. Of course, it's possible that the chipset in the enclosure doesn't support SMART. SMART is also known to give positive results when the drive is terminally ill. Still, it's an indication. If the drive fails SMART, it is definitely toast.Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 12, 2015, 07:14:43 PM
There are, of course, a few software utilities that can do a much better job than DU. Worst But might even have one they can use on a reformatted Seagate drive. I'm sure both Seagate and Worst Buy would both run a detailed and thorough diagnostic program before agreeing that the drive is "toast".
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any answers to the trouble-shooting that can easily be done at home; alternate cables, ports for two.
Cables are always a weak link; just try swinging on one! 
Post by: jchuzi on May 12, 2015, 07:23:49 PM
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 12 2015, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've seen some Terminal commands that can (sometimes?) access SMART status. Never seen it via DU, assuming both the drive and the enclosure support it, on the connection method used, regardless of the Moon's cycle.
As I said in my previous post, SMART status appears at the bottom of the DU window when you select a drive. DU doesn't have a button for starting SMART, per se, it just does it (as a courtesy?). Unfortunately, SMART isn't as smart as it should be. As an aside, I have only bought Hitachi (now HGST) drives and none of them has ever given a hint of trouble. (I'm probably tempting fate by writing this.)
Post by: Paddy on May 12, 2015, 07:33:23 PM
I'd shut the drive down, turn off Time Machine, and then reconnect the drive and turn it back on (you may have to reboot in there too, like you did before). Run Disk Utility - verify disk. See if it reports any errors or problems. Then reformat it with Disk Utility. Assuming that's successful, then try some really basic things: copy a few documents to the drive. Does that work? Can you open them and manipulate them?
If it seems to be behaving normally, then try a TimeMachine backup of a very limited sort - exclude most things, and just pick a folder/item that isn't too big (a few GB max) to see if it manages even that. If it doesn't, well, there is either a problem with the drive or a problem with a file. You could also try cloning software to see if that works, but again, don't clone the entire drive (CCC will let you pick and choose).
Actually, now that I've re-read your other thread about the upgrade, I realize that you may in fact have a problematic FILE; there may be nothing at all wrong with the Seagate drive.
You said:
QUOTE
1. I have 2 External Hard Drives - one with Carbon Copy Cloner (380 gb used out of 500 gb).
The other for Time Machine which stopped working a while back.
The other for Time Machine which stopped working a while back.
If TM stopped working on your old drive and it wasn't because of lack of space, then I'm willing to bet that there is an issue somewhere with a corrupted file. See Pondini's #C3 for info.
See: http://pondini.org/TM/Troubleshooting.html for a really extensive guide to troubleshooting Time Machine.
Also, which drive is this? STDT3000100? It doesn't get stellar reviews - lots of early failures. 3.8/5 from Amazon, 3 eggs at NewEgg.
Post by: jchuzi on May 12, 2015, 07:35:44 PM
QUOTE(Paddy @ May 12 2015, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BTW - SMART may not work with the external drive - in my experience, it often doesn't.
It works for my two external HGST drives in an OWC Mercury enclosure. TechTool Pro and Checkmate also see them for running SMART.Post by: Raven on May 13, 2015, 11:51:28 AM
Now my iMac is frozen with a gray screen!!
Working off my MacBook Pro.
As suggested herein, I used a different USB Port to connect to my Seagate EHD.
(Model Backup Plus. STDT3000100)
Went into Console/Crash logs. Unfortunately I have no idea what it all means.
SMART status in DU says "not supported". Yet, says the same for my other EHD that is using Carbon Copy Cloner.
Which is what Paddy indicated.
Then I Restarted and screen came up with rows of B/W Text. Never seen that before!
Message was to "Hold Power button down to shut off…"
Which I did and my desktop came up, but my cursor arrow was frozen.
Used power button to shut off and reboot.
It chimed and all I got was a gray screen.
Used power button again with same result - a Big Gray Screen.
I've wasted a whole friggen day and I've got work to do. Thank God for you folks, cause I have no idea what to do now. :-(
HELP!
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 13, 2015, 12:13:38 PM
Post by: Raven on May 13, 2015, 01:16:11 PM
Yes, I did… Held Power button til it shut off.
Pushed same button to turn on. Held down SHIFT key after the chime. No Apple logo.
Just a gray screen again!
I've also disconnected my Seagate EHD.
WAIT! Apple logo just showed up. It's taking a while to boot up.
Hmmm. What does that mean?
Will check out my EHD some more!
Post by: Raven on May 13, 2015, 01:46:04 PM
It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again, EXCEPT EHD#1.
I seem to getting further away with more problems than what I started with.
- Haven't started upgrading to 10.10
- Don't know yet if my new Seagate EHD works with TM.
- Can't find my first EHD that was working fine before all this!
Unplugged the EHD#1. Turned back on.
Message - "Disk is not readable by this computer"
Do I… "Initialize"
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 13, 2015, 02:36:33 PM
We need to understand exactly what is happening and when.
QUOTE
Held down SHIFT key after the chime. No Apple logo.
Just a gray screen again!
I've also disconnected my Seagate EHD.
"disconnected" when? Before the Safe Mode startup? During the "grey screen"?Just a gray screen again!
I've also disconnected my Seagate EHD.
QUOTE
WAIT! Apple logo just showed up.
After disconnecting the EHD? How long after the Startup process?QUOTE
It's taking a while to boot up. Hmmm. What does that mean?
Did you read the info on Apples instruction page?QUOTE
It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
Assuming it was now connected, again. Don't ask us to 'assume', please tell us specifically what you do between each step/action.QUOTE
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Safe Mode or 'normal? There is always a gray screen on start up. The duration depends on the speed of the computer, the drive and how well it's sectors are arranged.QUOTE
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That usually means there is no usable System on the drive the Mac is trying to start up with.QUOTE
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again...
However, since it finally does complete the Start up, it's likely that the drive is starting to die or that there are many bad sectors on it, especially in the main directory. It may also mean that the booting sectors are completely out of order.QUOTE
...EXCEPT EHD#1.
Again, I'm assuming it was (by now) reconnected? We (I) simply cannot trouble-shoot by "assuming" things. Computers just don't operate like that, only humans. First, check System Prefs->Startup Disk and make sure your internal, builtin drive is selected. If it is not, it will 1) waste a lot of time searching for the non-connected disk, 2) Waste time looking for a bootable System on any external disk that may be connected. Eventually, it will give up and look at the internal dick and the Startup process will finally begin.
I suggest you discontinue trying to use the external drives until you can get the internal drive working properly and consistently. If you have a stop watch, use it to keep track of what is happening when. Otherwise, an analog clock/watch can help. If nothing else, an egg timer (sand or mechanical) might help. There's one other timing method, but Sun dials are so rare now...
One (detailed) step at a time...
Post by: jchuzi on May 13, 2015, 02:41:17 PM
QUOTE(Raven @ May 13 2015, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
SAGA CONTINUES…
It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again, EXCEPT EHD#1.
I seem to getting further away with more problems than what I started with.
- Haven't started upgrading to 10.10
- Don't know yet if my new Seagate EHD works with TM.
- Can't find my first EHD that was working fine before all this!
Unplugged the EHD#1. Turned back on.
Message - "Disk is not readable by this computer"
Do I… "Initialize"
"Initialize" means the same as erasing and re-formatting. If you do that, you'll lose everything that's on the disk, assuming that the data are still intact. I would guess that the "?" at startup means that you set System Preferences > Startup Disk to one of the externals. The computer looks for it but can't start from it. After a suitable wait, it boots from the first bootable disk it finds, namely the internal. If I'm correct, reset your startup disk to the internal.It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again, EXCEPT EHD#1.
I seem to getting further away with more problems than what I started with.
- Haven't started upgrading to 10.10
- Don't know yet if my new Seagate EHD works with TM.
- Can't find my first EHD that was working fine before all this!
Unplugged the EHD#1. Turned back on.
Message - "Disk is not readable by this computer"
Do I… "Initialize"
The long time to start in Safe Mode is normal. The computer does a number of diagnostics, including verifying the disk the same way that Disk Utility does. I'm fairly certain that the external drive is dead.
Post by: Raven on May 13, 2015, 03:20:09 PM
I disconnected Seagate EHD#2 before Safe Mode start up.
Apple logo showed up 4-5 minutes after Safe Mode startup.
If the "drive is starting to die" (scary thought!), all the more reason to get my EHDs working, n'est pas?
Start up disk is my main hard drive. Not any of the 2 external drives. It seems to be working fine at the moment.
EHD#1 is/was connected all the time. The enclosure's blue light is on. But no icon on desktop. I think(?) this started after the first Safe Mode startup. This EHD has my Super Duper cloning of 10.6.8 on it (I erroneously stated before it was Carbon Copy Cloner).
I am not reconnecting the Seagate EHD#2 until I solve the EHD#1 problem. Suggestions?
Post by: jchuzi on May 13, 2015, 07:03:14 PM
If the internal drive is OK, I suggest cutting your losses and replacing both externals, and not with Seagate! Other World Computing is a good company to deal with. I would buy separate enclosures and hard drives rather than an all-in-one. First of all, that tends to be cheaper but, more importantly, you can select the hard drive that you want. And, the hard drive manufacturer may well issue a longer warranty than the all-in-one. It is more likely that the hard drive will fail than the enclosure.
I see, from MacTracker, that your computer should have a Firewire 800 port. If you buy an enclosure with FW 800 capability, you'll get reasonable transfer speeds. I believe that it will be faster than USB 2. If you can get enclosures that have USB 3 in addition, you'll be better able to take advantage of USB 3 speeds if you should ever get a new computer.
When I had my Mac Pro, I had the luxury of installing drives internally (and I had four of them). My iMac 5K Retina does not give me that option. So, I bought an enclosure from OWC that has USB 3 and Thunderbolt connections. I use the Thunderbolt because it's faster. (Thunderbolt is not an option with your present computer but USB 3 is backwards compatible with USB 2).
OWC didn't have the specific hard drives that I wanted so I went to Amazon and bought two 2 TB Hitachi Deskstars. My experience with this brand has been flawless. Yes, I could have gotten drives with faster read/write speeds but I decided that reliability trumped speed. Installing the drives in the enclosure was a breeze. The instructions were very clear. Once installed, all I had to do was connect the enclosure to a Thunderbolt port and plug it in.
To sum up, PUNT. Ditch Seagate and get something better.
To save you some time, here are some OWC choices for enclosures. I assume that you want 3.5", 7200 RPM drives. These should handle them. If you are considering one of them but you're not sure, phone OWC. Their sales reps are very knowledgeable.
Post by: Xairbusdriver on May 13, 2015, 10:15:07 PM
If you can unlock a door with a key, you can "install" a drive in an enclosure. 
Post by: Raven on May 14, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
Was able to get EHD #1 working again. All good there.
Seagate EHD #2... Unplugged it and back on.
Shut off Energy Saver.
Started Time Machine backup. After half hour(ish), it gave same message as before - "error occurred while copying files to back up disk".
Used Disk Utility to Verify Disk#2.
Message for all 3 partitions - "Needs repair"
Tried to Repair Disk. "Stopped repairing. Could not unmount"
(Same crappy messages as before)
Tried to eject.
Only way to eject is to Shut off and disconnect USB cable.
I'm calling Best Buy tomorrow to return drive. Will get another one.
Post by: Paddy on May 14, 2015, 01:01:19 AM
Raven, check the drives at Newegg.ca and Amazon.ca - usually better choices price-wise etc. than Best Buy anyway. I'm hoping that BestBuy will give you your money back and not insist that you go through Seagate, which will only get you another Seagate drive (and a refurb, at that). Fingers crossed.
As for drive choices - here's one:
TOSHIBA PH3300U-1I72 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Retail Kit is one option.
Actually - there aren't a lot of well reviewed 3TB drives out there. I generally avoid them - 2TB seems to offer more choices, though I'm not seeing a lot to choose from there either.
External enclosures from Vantec, Macally and of course, OWC are all worth considering. Get something with USB 3.0 at least: even if you don't have USB 3.0 now, you may well in the future. FW800 is fast, but it's going to cost you quite a bit more.
Post by: Raven on May 14, 2015, 08:11:46 PM
I called Best Buy to ask to return my new Seagate external drive that isn't working.
I can only return it in person at the same store where I purchased it some 500 miles away. They will not even allow me to mail it back with the original receipt. So, I was referred to Seagate.com
Their website tells you to download software to test the unit. That is only available for DOS and Windows.
When I enter the Return Merchandise page, the action stalls when it "validates my address" for 15 minutes or so... twice!
The USA website has no Country (Canada) Return Process (PDF).
If you read their Visual Inspection Criteria, they will not accept a unit if there is any mark, scratch or maybe even a fingerprint on the returned device. ;-)
The Backup Plus 3 Tb model is not even listed on their website. Built 11/2013.
(Wondering - Seagate has to sell tens of 1000s of these units worldwide. How do they do it if it has such a high failure rate?)
I've contacted Seagate. Apparently they may send me another unit! :-(
I'll close this off until I get a new drive and try my OS upgrade again.
My Super Duper cloning EHD is still working.
Don't know how a casual Mac user does this.
MUCH THANKS to all you good people here at TS!! :-)
Post by: Paddy on May 15, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
QUOTE(Raven @ May 14 2015, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
CLOSING DOWN THIS RIDICULOUS CHAPTER, because...
I called Best Buy to ask to return my new Seagate external drive that isn't working.
I can only return it in person at the same store where I purchased it some 500 miles away. They will not even allow me to mail it back with the original receipt. So, I was referred to Seagate.com
Their website tells you to download software to test the unit. That is only available for DOS and Windows.
When I enter the Return Merchandise page, the action stalls when it "validates my address" for 15 minutes or so... twice!
The USA website has no Country (Canada) Return Process (PDF).
If you read their Visual Inspection Criteria, they will not accept a unit if there is any mark, scratch or maybe even a fingerprint on the returned device. ;-)
The Backup Plus 3 Tb model is not even listed on their website. Built 11/2013.
(Wondering - Seagate has to sell tens of 1000s of these units worldwide. How do they do it if it has such a high failure rate?)
I've contacted Seagate. Apparently they may send me another unit! :-(
I'll close this off until I get a new drive and try my OS upgrade again.
My Super Duper cloning EHD is still working.
Don't know how a casual Mac user does this.
MUCH THANKS to all you good people here at TS!! :-)
I called Best Buy to ask to return my new Seagate external drive that isn't working.
I can only return it in person at the same store where I purchased it some 500 miles away. They will not even allow me to mail it back with the original receipt. So, I was referred to Seagate.com
Their website tells you to download software to test the unit. That is only available for DOS and Windows.
When I enter the Return Merchandise page, the action stalls when it "validates my address" for 15 minutes or so... twice!
The USA website has no Country (Canada) Return Process (PDF).
If you read their Visual Inspection Criteria, they will not accept a unit if there is any mark, scratch or maybe even a fingerprint on the returned device. ;-)
The Backup Plus 3 Tb model is not even listed on their website. Built 11/2013.
(Wondering - Seagate has to sell tens of 1000s of these units worldwide. How do they do it if it has such a high failure rate?)
I've contacted Seagate. Apparently they may send me another unit! :-(
I'll close this off until I get a new drive and try my OS upgrade again.
My Super Duper cloning EHD is still working.
Don't know how a casual Mac user does this.
MUCH THANKS to all you good people here at TS!! :-)
Did you go to this page, Raven? https://returns.seagate.com/returns/guest/x...tCustHome.xhtml
Since I have nothing to return, I can't test it, but you do choose your country.
I wouldn't worry about the visual inspection criteria - it's obvious physical damage they're looking for. If you click on the "list of conditions that may void your warranty" link on the page I link to above, they have lots of pictures of stuff they won't accept (for pretty obvious reasons!)
As for the failure rates, those are never as high as the reviews would lead you to believe - as a general rule, people who are happy with their purchases seem to be less likely to bother reviewing them at all - they're too busy getting on with things!
Post by: Raven on May 26, 2015, 04:54:10 PM
Believe it or not, my new Seagate unit that just failed me and has been returned for a replacement is rated highly by CNET...
http://www.cnet.com/topics/storage/best-ha...storage-drives/
Post by: jchuzi on May 26, 2015, 08:01:41 PM