Techsurvivors

Archives => 2003 => Topic started by: george on February 09, 2003, 12:17:00 PM

Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 09, 2003, 12:17:00 PM
On powering all I get on a grey screen is a floppy disk picture with a big question mark in the middle of it. I do hear the usual chime and the HDD spinning away but nothing more.
I have tried powering up with an OS 9 disk in the cd drive and pressing the c key to no avail. have I just attended a  funeral and was unaware of it.
Tell me no!
Help please.

George.
Not so
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 09, 2003, 12:38:00 PM
Question Mark means it can't find a valid System Folder to Boot from.  

Did you already replace the PRAM Battery on this machine?

Try resetting the PRAM.

1. Shut down the computer.
2. Locate the following keys on the keyboard: Command, Option, P, and R. You will need to hold these keys down simultaneously in step 4.
3. Press the power button to turn the computer on. You will hear the computer's startup sound.
4. Press and hold the Command-Option-P-R keys. You must press this key combination before the gray screen appears.
5. Hold the keys down until the computer restarts and you hear the startup sound for the second time.
6. Release the keys.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kbeartx on February 09, 2003, 01:17:00 PM
George -

you should be able to boot this machine with any OS seedie from 8.1 on up.

I recommend that you try using a disk utility  seedie (Norton, Disk Warrior, TechToolPro) so that if there is software damage to the HD, you will have a shot at reparing it once booted.

Follow Kelly's advice about zapping the PRAM, then try again booting to a known-good seedie with a valid OS on it.

One other possibility - not long ago I encountered a malfunctioning Kensington trackball that completely prevented a beige G3 from finding a valid system folder anywhere (on the HD or seedie).  Once it was disconnected, the Mac booted perfectly to the HD or seedie, just as it did before the start of the troubles.

 - kbeartx
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 09, 2003, 02:14:00 PM
I  have zapped the pram and the only disk that it will respond only to is a new disk ( OS 9.1)supplied with my G4 and even then a message ( time bomb )is superimposed over the welcome to Mac 9.1 OS  "sorry a system error occurred, the system map inconsistent, to temporarily turn off extentions, restart and hold down the shift key.
When I follow this instruction up comes exactly the same messages.
What next?
George
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Gary S on February 09, 2003, 02:45:00 PM
Shut down the computer. Disconnect all your peripherals except the keyboard and mouse and try to boot while holding down the Shift key to disable all your extensions.

Do you have a USB card in the Beige unit? Sometimes that gets screwy too.

Keep trying booting from various CDs that have a valid System folder on it . Sometimes one will work and others won't.
After you here the chimes keep saying, out loud...."Come on you sucker......Boot"!  
 
 [ 02-09-2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Gary S ]
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 09, 2003, 03:15:00 PM
Gary S,thanks for the advice, I'll try what you say in that I have recently installed a two port usb card which I will remove and then at  the appropriate moment utter your suggested prompting words of encouragement plus a few well chosen Anglo Saxon words of my own.
Alas it will have to wait till morning as I feel the need of a pint of ale, so it's off to the local pub.
Be of good cheer until I return.
George.
9.15 pm GMT
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Bernie on February 09, 2003, 06:18:00 PM
GaryS's advice is right on the money.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: LR827 on February 09, 2003, 07:29:00 PM
Uh-oh... I am suddenly feeling a sense of impending doom.  I am sitting at my beige G3 tower, in which I recently RE-installed OS 8.6, because OS 9 made my Apple Video Player disappear.

But I am staring down at the Macally PCI-to-USB card that awaits my installing it, so that I can then install XLR8's InterView 2.0.  As soon as I get another vacation.

Now, are you telling me that I am going to start having this kind of trouble once I install the USB card?  Please say Nooooooooooo!
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 09, 2003, 08:23:00 PM
Nooooooooooo!
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Gary S on February 10, 2003, 11:33:00 PM
Lorraine,

I've had a USB card in my Beige G3 that works fine. It's just that if you get the problems Thomas is talking about, it may be a peripheral problem, in which case it's a good idea to disconnect the USB peripherals and see if that helps.

The USB card should work fine.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: LR827 on February 10, 2003, 05:24:00 PM
FUNNEEEE, kelly!  And thanks, Gary, for your reassurance!

Now, for that vacation... Where's a 2006 calendar...?
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 10, 2003, 09:28:00 PM
I was serious Lorraine.  

You should have none or just minor problems with that card.

Do you have QuickTime Pro activated yet?
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 19, 2003, 02:15:00 PM
Things have moved on in that I installed the IDE drive from my Mac 6400200 with OS9 on it and it works. The problem then was that it could see the 2 GB SCSI HDD on the desktop but when I tried to activate it up pops the message that it could not do this in that there was no system folder.
I then managed to wipe the contents of  the SCSI HDD (which I intended)using OS9 on the IDE HDD but I am unable to install  an OS on it simply because I do not know how to!I have since replaced the the 2GB SCSI with a 9GB SCSI HDD and now it cannot see it on the desktop but in the profiler it gives the size and make but states 'no volume mounted'. The question now is what should be my next step and HOW?
George.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: LR827 on February 19, 2003, 07:47:00 PM
Sorry, kelly, I didn't see your last question until now.  No, I don't have QuickTime Pro activated.  What is that?  I have not put Interview in yet.  Still waiting until I get a vacation!
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 19, 2003, 10:38:00 PM
Lorraine. With QuickTime Pro you can create and edit movies.  

Also a wide choice of compression codecs.

I know you were supposed to have gotten it with the Interview deal.

Worth checking out. You'll need it activated for the Interview stuff.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/qt/faq.html#2

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/qt/faq.html

You probably have the license for QT 4. Maybe 5. Worth looking at.

George. Try using Drive Setup to Initialize that hard drive.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: krissel on February 19, 2003, 10:43:00 PM
george , open Apple's Drive Setup and see if the new drive is recognized. If so, you're in business. You can initalize the drive and partition it if you wish. Then just go through the usual installation of an OS by starting up from the CD with the OS on it. You can install while started from another system on a different drive or even copy a good folder, but from CD is recommended.

EDIT: Hmmm. I guess I was typing while kelly posted.  
 
 [ 02-19-2003, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: krissel ]
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 19, 2003, 10:50:00 PM
Yes krissel. But you were more detailed.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: RHPConsult on February 20, 2003, 12:09:00 AM
More reassurance for Lorraine:

I've had a USB card installedd in my beige for, probably, two years . .. . running 8.6, very smoothly.

8.6 works so well that I've been quite reluctant to try 9x.

Our Pismo and G4 tower run 10.2.4 and 9.2.2 swimmingly, but I haven't wanted to press my luck with the beige.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 20, 2003, 11:42:00 PM
Krissel,bearing in mind that I am using an IDE HDD (OS9)from a 6400200 on a Biege G3 9 (no volume mounted)the message that pops up when trying to activate Drive setup is, the application program "Drive Setup" could not be opened because it cannot be run on this computer.It looks as though I am in a cul de sac.
Whither now?
George.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 20, 2003, 12:05:00 PM
George. Try Booting from the OS 9 CD. Assuming you have one.  

Hold down the C Key to Boot. Then run Drive Setup from there.

You could also try a Clean Install of OS 9 into the 6400 Drive.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 20, 2003, 02:41:00 PM
Kelly,
i have booted into OS9 and when drive setup gives me the options of which drive to initialize the one I want to inialize the scsi, is highlighted as not supported, and the dreaded message is "cannot inialize a disk in an unsupported drive" The inialize box is  greyed out.
Give me hope or is it strenght? nope it is patience.
George
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Gary S on February 20, 2003, 03:15:00 PM
How about trying Mt. Everthing?

 Mt. Everything
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 20, 2003, 09:25:00 PM
George. I'm pretty confused about your setup.  

You have both IDE and SCSI Drives in that Beige machine?

Do you have an IDE Controller?

A SCSI Card, or what?

This one?

http://new.lowendmac.com/ppc/g3b.shtml

http://new.lowendmac.com/ppc/index.shtml
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: RogerF on February 21, 2003, 04:04:00 AM
RHP said;
"8.6 works so well that I've been quite reluctant to try 9x"

After I killed my old drive trying to correct an IE glitch, I installed and partitioned a 60g. Still have 8.6 on the other side but have found 9.1 with A-Dock a superior product.

By the way; thought you went 10X awhile ago??? and did you ever get that pop-up blocker working?
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Al on February 21, 2003, 05:23:00 AM
Interesting George.

Who is the manufacturer and what's the model of that 9GB SCSI drive?  Some SCSI drives are not supported by Drive Setup and may need third party software to initialize it.  I'll bet if you put the 2 GB (assuming it is a Quantum drive) it will be seen and initializable by drive setup and that you had some sort of directory corruption happen on that drive.

Does the IDE drive show up as initializable?

Did you recenly add new memory to your beige G3?  If so, try removing it and bring the beige back to it's original memory state before you added the RAM.

Kelly, beige G3's have built-in support (controllers) for both IDE and SCSI hardware.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 21, 2003, 09:28:00 AM
Ok Al. I thought it was either one or the other.  

George. Unlike most modern IDE Drives older SCSI may not be supported.

You can buy Third Party Formatting Utilities, but for the $80 or so

you could buy a pretty big IDE Drive.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Al on February 21, 2003, 10:31:00 AM
Yeah Kelly, just like your ol' 6500 has both controllers too.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: kelly on February 21, 2003, 10:54:00 AM
Not to be too Pedantic, like a certain Texas resident, but it's a 6400 Al.  

Yeah. I though those were the only ones like that.
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 21, 2003, 04:42:00 PM
Al, I'll get back to you tomorrow it's nearly closing time at the  pub ...... the scsi 9gb is a WD.....must go!
George
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: Al on February 24, 2003, 03:52:00 AM
Kelly, do you still have that 6400 around, what are you dong with it now that you own a super-computer?    

Pub, George?  You own a Pub?
Title: Beige G3 Death knell? noooooooooo Please noooo
Post by: george on February 24, 2003, 01:35:00 PM
Al, I do not own a pub sometimes I wish I did in that it would take me away from  bashing away at this keyboard.
I am still trying to get my head round the helpful information given by TS'ers.
I'll get there
George