Techsurvivors
Welcome to Techsurvivors => Tech => Topic started by: Raven on July 01, 2021, 01:05:22 PM
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My Apple Mail has disappeared on my MBP! When I open the app it shows up for a quick second and then disappears. Message is “Apple Mail has quit unexpectedly”.
At first, I called my service provider who tried several things, and then said it was an Apple issue. I called Apple Care twice. Spent hours trying different things - rebooting, new mail account, deleted preferences. They even helped me to reload the same operating system. No dice.
They said my 2012 MPB was obsolete and wanted me to upgrade OS, but I won't because I use Adobe CS 6 apps and they don’t work in later OS. I will not buy into Creative Cloud and pay monthly fees. :mad:
On the second Apple call, we did learn that my email works in my other TEST account. So, I could log in to the TEST account and do my normal email stuff and return to my main account. All previous emails were there and it worked fine. BUT… a week later those emails in my TEST account also disappeared. Same as before, when I open the Mail app, it is visible for a split second and then says “Mail quit unexpectedly”. Very difficult not be able to use email on my laptop, although email on my very old 24” iMac and iPhone 11 work perfectly.
One Apple Care support person had to go to her supervisor several times. I found there is a detailed Apple report when I get the Quit message, but Apple Care never asked to see that.
Any ideas how to get it back even though Apple Care couldn’t solve the problem?
15” Mac Book Pro 2012
OS High Sierra. 10.13.6
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I can't begin to troubleshoot but I can suggest that, if possible, you make an appointment with Apple at the Genius Bar and bring the MBP with you.
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1. Have you run Apple Diagnostics and Apple Hardware Test (https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/diagnose-problems-with-your-mac-mh35727/10.13/mac/10.13) apps?
2. Do you have any "Crash" entries in Console.app?
3. Have you considered moving the Mail com.apple.mail.plist and/or its cache file?
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Jchuzi, My closest Genius Bar is 500 miles away! I'll be there in 3 weeks and will take the MBP along. Thanks!
Xairbusdriver, I'll try #1 first.
No idea how to do #2 or #3. :-(
Thanks.
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Xairbusdriver, I tried the Apple Hardware Test, but it's not working for me!
When I RESTART and hold down the D key, when do I let it go?..
When I release after the Chime, the OS starts in the normal manner.
When I try again and keep holding down the D key, it opens a field that says "Choose Network" where I get my WiFi service. Then I enter my password, and the screen goes black with "Error Cannot Load EFI/Drivers/Test Support.efi".
I then have to hold power button to shut down completely and power up again.
I think I'm supposed to see a Apple Hardware Test Chooser Screen for language? What to do?
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Please note the specific OS under the "Select version:" text at the top of the linked page. I assumed you are working with High Sierra, but "assuming" is dangerous. :whistling: Just make sure you have the correct OS form the computer you are working on selected. :yes:
Then please print the instructions on the page. I sometimes have trouble remembering the third step in a series, much less the last! :blush-anim-cl: :wallbash:
I cannot run the tests to see what happens as I don't have a computer running macOS 10, 11 or 13. All I can suggest is to print the instructions and follow them.
As for holding down the D key (or the option D, as appropriate), you can release it as soon as you see a screen showing further steps/instructions. Or until your finger(s) hurt. Too long is not a problem, too short can be. :wallbash:
We can cover items #2 and #3 after running the tests. :)
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Yes, I noted in my first post that my MBP has OS10.13.6.
I did print the Apple Hardware Test page to follow it.
I have selected High Sierra.
When I click RESTART and hold down the D key, it goes to a grey screen with "Starting Internet Recovery" and then "Choose Network".
IF if click on my WiFi option and enter my password, the screen goes black with the error message as I posted above.
If I do not do anything, I have to shut off to get out and then reboot.
It gives me no testing option. :tears:
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I think we may have to move on to other things, but what are the "Network" choices offered? :Thinking:
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When I restart with D key, it says "Starting Internet Recovery".
Then it says "Choose Network".
It shows my WiFi email account number and others in the neighbourhood(?). Then it asks for my password which takes me to a black screen with that error message...
"Error Cannot Load EFI/Drivers/Test Support.efi".
Where I have to power out to be able to reboot.
Does this have something to do with why my email is missing, or am I getting into another problem?
Interesting that two Apple Care people never went through this process.
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I don't remember if Disk Utility in 10.13 had the ability to run SMART. If so, try it and see if anything is amiss.
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Not sure what SMART is. :Thinking:
I ran Disk Utility First Aid and it showed up nothing.
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Check whether a Mac disk is about to fail (https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/check-whether-a-mac-disk-is-about-to-fail-mchlp2548/mac) That link explains what SMART is and shows how to use Disk Utility. TechTool Pro and Disk Warrior can also do this, if you have one of them. In DW, it's in the Hardware tab, although it may not say this explicitly.
In Disk Utility, you may have to click the View button in the toolbar to show all devices. Select the first choice (the physical hard drive), not the second (which shows the volume).
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Jchuzi, Much thanks for your suggestions. Did First Aid on DU twice. Didn't show anything unusual. See screen shot. Does that tell you anything how to get my email back?
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I can't tell anything from the screenshot, except that it says that SMART is unsupported. That probably means that you selected the volume in DU and not the physical hard drive. You can try again by clicking the View button as I suggested. Even if SMART is reported to be OK, that won't help you get email back. If, on the other hand, the drive fails SMART, that indicates that the drive is, indeed, failing.
Beyond that, unfortunately, I'm unable to help. :no2:
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Please confirm that:
(1) You have already attempted to update at least one of the computers running 10.10.5, 10.11.6 or 10.13.6.
AND
(2) None of them can be updated.
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Xairbusdriver, This topic is about my MBP which has 10.13.6.
I can't take it any further because I'm still using Adobe CS6 apps.
I have to migrate my files from my old 24" iMac to my new 27" iMac, but that's another topic.
jchuzi,
DU VIEW shows - 1. Kingston, 2. container disk 1, 3. MacIntosh HD.
I did First Aid on # 1 and # 3. No difference in the results.
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On the second Apple call, we did learn that my email works in my other TEST account. So, I could log in to the TEST account and do my normal email stuff and return to my main account. All previous emails were there and it worked fine. BUT… a week later those emails in my TEST account also disappeared. Same as before, when I open the Mail app, it is visible for a split second and then says “Mail quit unexpectedly”. Very difficult not be able to use email on my laptop, although email on my very old 24” iMac and iPhone 11 work perfectly.
To my thinking, this behavior is pointing to corrupted .plist files, possibly caused by the app itself. Mail writes dozens of .plist files in both the root Library and your home Library (~/Library).
Creating a new user caused it to create a new .plist file in that new user space. But it would continue to use all the .plist files in the root Library. However, if you tried to edit or change your settings while in that new user version of Mail, it could then have corrupted that version of the new user's Mail .plist file.
The only way I can see to correct this behavior is to re-install Mail. Unfortunately, Apple does not usually provide a method of installing individual Apple developed apps. Instead, Apple provides ways to re-install the complete OS while leaving your personal data in place.
Before starting this process, you SHOULD have a written copy of ALL your Account settings (unless you are prepared to re-create them): - Account Info: (Email addresses, description)
- Server Settings for both incoming (IMAP/POP) and outgoing (SMTP) servers: (user names, passwords, user names, host server names)
- It might also be helpful if you have the Mailbox Behaviors settings
First, make sure you have a current and usable back up of all your personal data files. That is best done by having both a Time Machine and a 'clone' of all your files. If you do not have SuperDuper (https://shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html?buyProductID=558385) or CarbonCopyCloner version 5 (https://bombich.com/download) (my favorite), please consider purchasing either app before doing a re-install of the OS.
Second you can download macOS 10.13 High Sierra from the Mac App Store at this Apple Support page (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683). Or you can create a bootable installer (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372) on a flash drive with at least 14GB of space.
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It may be possible to extract Mail from Apple's installer by using Pacifist (https://www.charlessoft.com). I make no guarantee but it's worth a look.
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Xairbusdriver,
This is getting a bit heavy for me to understand, but I appreciate your comments. :unsure:
I only back up my MBP every few weeks cause I don't do a lot of important work on it except for emails and viewing photos.
The second Apple Care person walked me through downloading OS10.13.6 again, after I had backed everything up on Super Duper first. That made no difference at all. She did work on my desktop from her end. Yet, you are explaining things that Apple Care did not mention.
I don't use Time Machine for my MBP. Just Super Duper. Should I add Time Machine?
Not sure how to get all my email account settings if Apple Mail won't stay open? Or do I pull that info from my iMac?
In 3 weeks I will be traveling to where an Apple Store/Genius Bar is located. Can they help me?
Lots of questions! :Thinking:
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you are explaining things that Apple Care did not mention
I would doubt any Apple phone "tech" would ever explain anything about what is in your System or Library. And maybe only a passing comment about your ~/Library. They have no incentive to have you know that there are things that can be done in those locations.
Should I add Time Machine?
I cannot think of any reason to not use Time Machine. Although it is too late to get any use from doing that if we can't re-install Mail. Hopefully, when this problem is either fixed or you just end up "moving on", you will definitely rethink your back up strategies. We have been recommending the use of Time Machine ever since it was first available. SuperDuper and or CarbonCopyCloner from their first versions also. It is never too soon to have both a bootable clone and an incremental back up.
Can they help me?
You might get help from an Apple Store, but I think you will need an appointment. Our local store seems to discourage 'walk-ins', especially for a "Genius" (assuming they still have those). They rarely do anything except run various hardware tests and suggest sending the hardware to an Apple Repair provider.
Hopefully, they can get macOS 10.13 High Sierra installed at least on the mini and MBP and get Mail working. They will probably complain, however, that 10.13 is no longer "supported". Just remind them that it is still on the Mac App Store. :toothgrin:
If you can get Mail working, you should then be able to get your IMAP mail from the servers. Also remember that any of your Apple-domain email (.me, .icloud, .mac) can be accessed on iCloud Mail via Safari.
Has your iMac (or MPB) had a new drive installed? If not, you are trusting a ~12 year old mechanical hard drive in the iMac. That's around 99 dog years! :WOW: Your MBP's original hard drive could be ~9 years old. That's also very old for a mechanical drive. If you didn't buy the mini in the last couple of years before the M1, it is likely one that was actually built in 2014. Still not a youngster at ~7 years. I'm not sure how you are getting AppleCare on any of those nachines. :dntknw:
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Xairbusdriver, some clarification needed here...
The mini is my wife's and no changes needed for a while. :)
My MBP died about 5-6 years ago, and I had a 240GB Solid State SATA drive installed. That's the unit where my email has disappeared.
Yet, if I can see my email for a split second each time I open it, does that say it still exists and it's hiding? Apple Care helped me re-install OS10.13 which did nothing. Which doesn't make sense. Wouldn't those plist files have also been changed?
Is there anything that I can ask the Apple store to do that would help?
As mentioned, I need to transfer my 2009 24" iMac files to a new 27" iMac with OS10.14. Cause that still allows me to use CS6. I am wary because it has several glitches and ALL my files. I will have to post that as a separate topic to get some TS guru advice again! :notworthy:
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"Clarification", indeed! I've been using the info in your profile at the bottom of each post to identify what hardware you are using! So you also have a newer(?) iMac running Mojave macOS 10.14.
A. Is that the computer that is covered by AppleCare?
B. So, you have four Macs, including the mini for your wife?
C. You can no longer run Apple Mail on any of them? :ohmy:
I can see my email for a split second each time I open it, does that say it still exists and it's hiding?
Certainly. :yes: Your emails, like files created in other apps, are stored completely separately from the code files of the application.
If you haven't put your home Library folder in the Side Bar of Finder, simply use the "Go Menu" or type shift + command + L. I would suggest using Column View in Finder and just keep clicking the next folder to the right. In your home Library for "Mail", click on "Mail",
then "V7",
then one of the folders with a folders with the 32 letters and numbers "name"
(I have one named: 189FB98D-11AB-4510-8073-B8810130FFAA you are not
likely to have one with that exact name).
You will probably have several of those useless-to-humans named folders. Click on any of them until you find one that has a bunch of items with ".mbox" suffixes.
1. Now click one of those ".mbox" files.
Look for another folder with a horribly long 32 character name. Click on that folder.
Do you now see a "Data" folder? Great! Click on it.
If you don't see a "Data" folder, just click on any other incomprehensibley named
folder until you find one with a "Data" folder in it.
2. Inside the "Data" folder, you will see that Apple decided to save typing by now naming folders with single digits! If you click on one of those, you will usually find yet another group of single digit-named folders. Guess what you will probably find in the second group of folders? That's right! Another single-digit named folder! :WOW:
Are you still with me?! For the Grand Prize, what will you see inside one of that 3rd group of folders?
If you guessed another group of single-digit named folders you are to be forgiven. But Apple is not that easy! Instead, you should find a folder called "Messages". Dare you click on the "Messages" folder, you will, at long last, find at least one of your email messages IF ANYTHING HAS A SUFFIX OF ".emix".
Do a Get Info (command + I) on any .emix file and you will see an email.
Such a short question, such a long and involved "answer". :wallbash:
So, the good news is that your messages are probably OK! All you need to do is get Mail to stay open. :whew: :doh:
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Much thanks for taking the time to explain all this. It will take me a while to figure out what you've explained! :Thinking:
The email issue is ONLY on my MBP which has 10.13.6. It is not covered by Apple Care, but I've called them twice and they did try to help. I didn't expect they would help, but they could not solve my email problem twice.
Aside, I have not done anything with my new 27" iMac OS10.14 as I explained...I need to transfer my 2009 24" iMac files before it dies to my new iMac. That will still allow me to use my Adobe CS6 apps. BUT I am wary because my old iMac has several glitches that I don't want to transfer. I will give that problem in a different post later.
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Files are completely separate from applications. So transferring "files" you want from one computer to another can be safely via WiFi (on your local network) or Ethernet(?) (wire). There is no need to have any application even running. I would encourage you to get that transfer done ASAP.
Whether you ever get Mail to run on the MBP is a task that can wait. You already have a new iMac that is running Mail, correct? I suspect that the only solution may be erasing the MBP before re-installing the OS. That will, of course, wipe out any files on it, so make sure you have also transferred any you want to keep to the newer iMac.
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Xairbusdriver, I'm trying to find the Library/Mail folder you mentioned and try what you suggested.
See my screen shot. I can't find it. Am I looking in the wrong place?
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You are looking in the wrong Library. You need ~/Library/Mail. In other words, Users/yourname/Library/Mail.
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- Open a Finder window.
- Find the “Go” item in the Menu bar and select that item.
- You should now see the menu expand downward.
- One of the items in that drop down list is “Library”. You can also ‘go to your user Library’ by using the key board shortcut (shown to the right of that item in the drop down list): shift + command + L.
Please set Finder to Column or List View. Icon view is horrible for seeing paths.:rolleyes: :coolio:
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This is rather pathetic at my end. I cannot find another Library folder when I try either option. :wallbash:
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Read How to Find Your Library Folder on a Mac (https://www.howtogeek.com/678112/how-to-find-your-library-folder-on-a-mac/)
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Thanks jchuzi!
Found the Library/v5 folder! I opened many sub folders until I found an EMIX file.
The lost email opens for a split second, and then “Mail Quit Unexpectantly”
So, there they are there one email at a time… deep down.
How to bring em all back? <_<
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See my question above.
Also, I will take my MBPro to an Apple store in 2 weeks (500 miles away). Hope they might be able to help me.
Here is another thought...
My MBP has 10.13.6. As I said, Apple Care helped me reload the same OS, but that did not bring my emails back. IF I upload OS10.14, might that solve the issue? I can't go past 10.14 (I think), or I won't be able to use my Adobe CS6 apps. I've got nothing to lose to load OS10.14?
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According to MacTracker, the maximum OS for your MBP is 10.15.7. I can't say if upgrading to 10.14 will solve your problem, unfortunately.
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I thought I would download Mac OS10.14 onto my MBPro. Just to see if my lost Apple email comes back. I can’t go upgrade any further because I won’t be able to use my Adobe CS6 apps. So, I looked here…
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683
It gives me a link to Mojave OS 10.14.6 in the App Store.
Then I can see all the info, but there is no DOWNLOAD button or link.
What am I missing?
And, should I not be downloading 10.14.0 first and then update to 10.14.6?
Can TS please advise?
Much thanks!
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Click GET in the App Store page. There is no reason (that I can think of) to start with 14.0 and then update. You should be able to go to 10.14.6 directly.
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I know there should be a GET. But I don't see any. :Thinking:
This has been a very frustrating exercise. Nothing seems to be working! :wallbash:
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jchuzi, this thread is changing from my original post. I will start a new one.
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Um...let's roll this all back to the original issue.
I'm guessing there is corruption in the Mail folders somewhere. So there are various things that should be tried - not sure why this hasn't been suggested yet, as it's usually the place to start with mail issues. ;)
Obviously, do a cloned (preferably) backup before starting any of this.
Solution 1. Rebuild your accounts. This could take a while if you've got a lot of mail.
1. Launch the Apple Mail application on your device.
2. From the list of folders, select the folder that you wish to rebuild.
3. Click the Mailbox menu followed by Rebuild.
4. Check if the issue is resolved. If not, try the next solution.
Solution 2: Restoring Apple Mail Account
Step 1:
You can restore your Apple Mail account using the Preferences option.
Step 2:
On your Mac Mail application screen, click the Mail menu.
Step 3:
Go to the Preferences option.
Step 4:
In the window that opens next, select the Account option.
Step 5:
Disable and again select the Enable this account option.
Step 6:
Finally, click the Save button.
Step 7:
Now, check if the Mac mail mailboxes disappeared issue is resolved.
(I doubt that solution #2 will do anything, but hey, worth a try as it's painless)
Solution 3. Reindex your Apple Mailbox
Rebuilding your Mailboxes is often enough to solve many of the issues an overburdened Mail app may experience. However, if you’re still having problems (such as the app becoming so unresponsive it barely works or fails to launch), you should manually reindex your Mailboxes.
Here’s how to manually reindex your Mailbox:
1. Quit Apple Mail if the app is running.
2. Launch Finder and select Go from the Menu Bar.
3. Enter ~/Library/Mail/ and press Go.
4. Choose the V8 folder (depending on your macOS version, it can be named V5, V6, or V7) > MailData. Next, locate and delete all the files that start with Envelope Index, such as “Envelope Index” or “Envelope Index-wal.”
Note: It’s a good idea to copy each file to your desktop before deleting it.
5. Launch Apple Mail. The next time you open Mail, it will build entirely new Envelope Index files. You may have to be patient—this process can take a while if you have a lot of messages for Mail to go through. If everything is now working normally, you can safely delete the old envelope files you'd dragged to the desktop.
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Paddy,
Re: #1 - I can't rebuild any account because Mail only opens for a split second.
#2 - Tried that myself and with with help of AppleCare people. Twice. Made no difference. They even helped me reload the same OS10.13.6. I had cloned everything prior to that. They could not suggest any other solutions other than to upgrade the OS to the latest version. As mentioned, I cannot do that at this point in time due to my Adobe CS6 apps.
I'm starting to learn how to use Affinity apps and maybe in a few weeks I can look at going past 10.14 which I uploaded yesterday and another problem has presented itself. I posted that separately.
#3 - Because I can't see any Mailbox, I will try to manually reindex as you described.
Aside, you've helped me so often over the years I owe you big time! :blush-anim-cl:
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Paddy, Manually re-indexed Mailbox as you suggested. Removed those Mail Data folders.
Relaunched Apple Mail. Only saw it for a split second. Same issue as before.
The Mail Data folders are back. :wallbash:
I can see emails for a split second when it's launched.
I can see separate emails when I dig down deep in the Library/Mail/v5 folder. So, they are there. How to bring them back in a usable format?
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Note: it's good that the Mail data folders are back - all you did was re-index (and re-create) them. If they disappeared during this operation, that would not be good!
Well, at this point, I have to conclude that there is something very wrong somewhere and that it goes beyond normal Mail issues.
Does your mail work ok on your NEW iMac? Are you using IMAP for your mail? (just want to be sure you'll see exactly the same thing on all devices if everything is working ok). If you aren't using IMAP, then that's another issue and needs some discussion on how to switch to it.
If your mail works ok on the new iMac, then obviously the problem resides entirely with the 2012 MBP and its operating system/installation of Mail. (I'm just making sure here - there really hasn't been any discussion of this other than a note that a Test account worked ok for a few days and then started behaving badly.)
What email are you using? Gmail or just the Bell mts.net (got your email ;) ) ? Is the webmail working ok? (if it's all working fine on the other computers and your iPhone, then it's just the MBP. I'm just trying to rule out anything else we might have missed here...it's not likely that it's an external problem, but got to ask in order to be sure.)
If everything is fine on other Macs/your iPhone, then cloning things on the MBP is apparently just copying the problem. You have said that you don't use this MBP for anything important other than email. So, assuming that you can access your email just fine on the iMac, copy any files off the MBP that you need that aren't saved elsewhere. Then wipe it. Completely. As if you were going to sell it. And start over. Don't install anything other than reinstall the OS and then add your Mail accounts. See if that works. Leave it for a few days to make sure it continues to work. Then add the stuff back that you actually need on this machine.
Instructions from Apple on how to wipe your MBP. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201065
NOTE: make sure you de-authorize Adobe CS6 if you've got it installed on this machine. Otherwise you can't reinstall it without calling Adobe. https://helpx.adobe.com/in/download-install/kb/activate-deactivate-products.html
One more question - when you open Mail, have you ever gone to Console (in the Utilities folder) to see what you can see - any Crash Reports or other indications of what might be going on? Make a note of the exact time that Mail quit, and then have a look in the system.log for any clues. Often these reports aren't terribly useful to normal human beings, but still worth having a peek. You never know...
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Much thanks again, Paddy. Will take me a few days to try your suggestions and report back. Working on several other volunteer projects at the moment. :)
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Paddy,
I am using IMAP.
Using BELL MTS as ISP.
Webmail is working fine. All emails are visible there.
I looked in Console/System log. No idea what I am seeing here. See screen capture.
I am willing to wipe everything and rebuild if that is still necessary.
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My version of Console in Big Sur has Crash Reports as one of the options in the sidebar (apparently not in your OS). Can you search for it in your version? In BS, you must do this immediately after a crash; the report does not appear after a restart.
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jchuzi, you can see on my screen capture above, in the side bar, there is no Crash Report. There is a "Crash Reporter" under Library/Logs, but it's an empty window.
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Try to open Mail and let it crash. Then, see if Crash Reporter shows anything.
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jchuzi,
See side bar of the screen capture. Some of those folders are totally blank. Some are full of code(?).
Where to look first?
(more ram is on order. lol)
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I am clueless insofar as interpreting code. The only time that I found a crash report useful was when it mentioned AVG specifically as part of the gibberish and I was using AVG antivirus (which I subsequently uninstalled, curing the problem).
Someone else will have to give you a better answer. :confused: