Post by: giantmike on October 26, 2003, 08:04:31 AM
First thing I noticed is how slow the install was. Each machine took around 2 hours. I'm betting the G5 install will be slightly faster
But after the install, everything does seems speedier, especially finder operations. Speaking of the finder, I like the new finder windows. I find them much easier to and fast to navigate.
I like the new threaded view in Mail, really cleans thign up.
Exposé rocks! Other than playing around with it, I have used it a few times to clear the way for the desktop. I don't think I'll use it that much to switch applications, as that is what the dock and command tab is for.
Font book is very helpful. It nice to have the ability to disable all those foreign language fonts, without having to worry about messing something up if I went around deleting the ones I didn't want. Having those fonts disabled speeds up font menus and such.
The open and save dialog boxes are new. They are eariser to navigate for the most part, but doesn't allow you to move backwards all the way through the disk heirarchy. By this, I mean if you start at you home folder (possibly by using the shortcuts on the left), you can only go that far back. You have to click on the hard drive shortcut if you want to navigate everything.
Goiodbye DropStuff. NOw Apple allows you to compress (archive) files and folders directly in the finder using gzip format.
PDFs. I can now navigate PDFs on my iBook 500 MHz with Panther, as fast, or maybe even faster than I could using Jaguar on my Dual 2GHz G5!!! Preview is now super fast! Also, the bility to copy text is awesome! I view approximately 3-10 different PDFs every day, on average, so this is a reason to upgrade in and of itself.
Some things I don't like:
The blue box that is drawn around a highlighted icon. I always hated that in IE, and hate it here too. I can't find a way to turn it off.
The Process Viewer and CPU monitor have been combined into the Activity viewer. While the application itself is nice, it doen't allow a nice way to keep a CPU monitor visible. I always kept the little floating bar in the lower left hand corner open, with high transparency, so it doesn't interfere with anything. With this new application, this is not possible.
Post by: kelly on October 26, 2003, 08:25:13 AM
Post by: giantmike on October 26, 2003, 09:11:35 AM
Disk Copy is gone! But no fear, it's just been integrated into Disk Utility. Unlike the CPU monior/Process Viewer merge, this one is a good one. Both Disk Utility and Disk Copy work well together, and the new application is easier to use.
Key Caps is gone too! You can get to it in a convoluted way, using the International System Preferences, but that is not helpful. What is helpful is the new character palette. You can use the Edit Menu to select Special Characters in some Applications, and this will bring it up. But better yet, in the International System Preferences, under the Input Menu tab, there is an option for the Character Palette. If you select the box to "Show the input menu in the menu bar." you can easily open the character palette in any application.
The floating palette contains all the special characters, organized by category. Simply find the one you want, and drag it to your document. Much easier than Key Caps in my opinion.
Also, the new version of Safari animates many more animated gifs. However, this takes more CPU power.
System Profiler has a new, updated look. This new look is much more refined, and seems to provide more information.
Navigating the iDisk is much faster.
Connecting to servers is very different. For some, it may be confusing, but is better in my opinion. For instance, if you use the Connect to Server menu item, it brings up a no frills dialog box, that show not show much (you can type in server addresses, see recent servers, and see a list of your favorites). However, if you open a Finder Window, and click on the Network, you will be presented with a list of all servers on your Netowrk. Very cool!
Post by: Gary S on October 26, 2003, 09:56:33 AM
Can you elaborate on the "gzip format"? I take it Stuffit Expander is still required to open downloads and such....
Post by: Mrious_be on October 26, 2003, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: giantmike on October 26, 2003, 04:51:43 PM
Post by: nikki on October 26, 2003, 05:45:08 PM
Its very stable "no beach ball yet" and faster.
Expose is my favorite thing.
MP 800 G4 tower.
Post by: chuckwagen on October 26, 2003, 07:03:39 PM
Not much bang for the buck. I agree about the slow install. Somehow I lost IE 5.2.3...
Post by: giantmike on October 26, 2003, 07:39:42 PM
I got it for $20, but do think it would be worth $120. The new Preview is almost worth that! Then there is exposé, faster finder, etc. I think it's easily worth that price.
Post by: JohnKentucky on October 26, 2003, 08:15:33 PM
IE 5.2 is there in the install..it is an option now!
I love panther!
Post by: Bill on October 26, 2003, 08:27:11 PM
Not sure if that is true but if it is, yeah, $129 sounds about right.
Post by: pendragon on October 27, 2003, 08:01:40 AM
First, I did an Upgrade Install and that went fine. But, Repairing Permissions breaks the printer connectivity and I must restart. This problem is apparently resolved by doing an Archive & Install, but then the folks who did that are having other problems, such as Palm not working. So for the next few weeks or until this all gets sorted out, I will just shut down & restart my computer every two weeks or so. While this is hardly a problem, it is a condition that should not be necessary-even for Pioneers!
I am not sure Panther is faster per-se, but it seems snappier in that rebooting, application launching, window opening, finding, etc. may indeed be quicker, but if the code is such that real life processing is faster, I just don’t know.
I already miss a few of my favorite third party extras, such as MaxMenus, LabelsX (I think that haxie was far superior to Apple’s label coloring system.) Menu Master, and Window Shade; and look forward to Panther compatible releases.
That all said, there are just so many improvements: scheduling of startups & shutdowns, Expose, Font Book, and all the points made above.
I suppose that by the first of the year, 10.3.1 will be released, the third party developers will have all their apps compliant and things will be even better.
Yeah, I wish the printing/permissions problem were resolved, but even in light of that, Panther is a fine product and well worth the cost.
Post by: bil207 on October 27, 2003, 08:27:26 AM
I was having problems with my Epson printer after repairing the permissions in Panther. I reinstalled Panther using the option to "Archive & Install" and customized the installation by only installing the Epson printer packages #1 and #2.
After the install, when I repaired the permisssions ther were none of the "Group differs on ./private/etc/cups/certs" that needed repairing and all is now well with my Epson.
Post by: pendragon on October 27, 2003, 08:54:08 AM
Harv
Post by: kps on October 28, 2003, 06:24:18 PM
So, here I sit typing this in Panther.
Prior to the installation, I backed up the PB, ran DiskUtility to verify and repair the disk, repaired permissions and brewed a pot of coffee. The installation took just over an hour. I failed to take my own advice of months, years past and foolishly installed all the "other" languages even though I chose custom install. Serves me right for rushing.
Chose the "upgrade" install and all went "well" except when the installer quit after Disk 3, the cursor was frozen...no trackpad use. I unplugged my Logitech mouse from my tower, plugged it into the USB port on the PB and I was back in business to finish the registration. Which, by the way, failed because I had no network due to the computer insisting that had no Airport card installed.
This called for a reboot with both fingers crossed...okay, no need to be too dramatic. It rebooted and all was fine. Network, trackpad, ...oh wait, except for the time and date...waaaay out...sent me back in time to 1969...or was it 1901...
Seriously, so far it's working well, I do notice a substantial speed boost on my G4/867 and that alone is worth it. Harv, haven't tried printing yet, I'll let you know about that issue. I took bil207's advice and just installed the Epson drivers 1 & 2.
Okay, that's it for now...back to Panther.
Post by: Bruce_F on October 28, 2003, 07:16:15 PM
I made the same mistake of not customizing my Panther install. I did wonder why the installer said that it would require over 1.6 GB of additional hard disk space, but not enough to stop and investigate.
Fortunately, DeLocalizer works in Panther! I removed the foriegn language stuff and gained the space back.
For all who upgrade to Panther: Remember to Repair Permissions afterwards!
On that same note... I'm kind of dissappointed in how fast the permissions get messed up in Panther. I have run DFA at least three times at various points and each time the permissions are a mess.
Post by: kps on October 28, 2003, 08:44:12 PM
So I run Repair Permissions anyway. The USB Epson CX5200 is connected to my G4 tower running OS X 10.2.8, USB File Sharing is on in both systems, all connected wirelessly with a D-Link router. To my amazement, the printer worked with the new permissions and over the WiFi LAN.
Harv, I don't know what to tell you at this time, don't know enough about this yet.
What's your exact set up?
Post by: kps on October 28, 2003, 08:53:34 PM
Post by: Audone on October 28, 2003, 08:59:50 PM
Just installed today and I think I love this new operating system. My only dislike, so far, is a dock with a background shadow. I got so used to it being transparent that this seems very odd. I'm sure somebody, somewhere will come up with a solution.
Post by: pendragon on October 28, 2003, 09:29:27 PM
The Permissions/Printing issue I mentioned has been noted my many others and is discussed in some detail on the Apple Discussion Boards. Almost all report no success unless an Archive & Install is done. Then, all is normal. I called Apple and the only "solution" they have is to reinstall via Archive & Install. Maybe tomorrow I'll just go ahead and invest another two hours.
Curious and curiouser.
Audone, Unsanity's Clear Dock is now Panther compliant.
http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/cleardock/
FWIW, I am using it without problem.
Harv
Post by: Audone on October 28, 2003, 09:35:46 PM
If you have good succes with the new install, maybe I'll go that route, too .... not particularly looking forward to that.
Post by: kps on October 28, 2003, 09:51:33 PM
Post by: CyberPet on October 28, 2003, 10:42:13 PM
Cuz after I installed Panther I did run repair permissions, then I realized I should perhaps check if I could print too and not just look happy about a working system, so I plugged in my Epson and it was recognized directly. Only printer I had to add was the HP LaserJet 2100TN we have on the network as an IP-printer.
Both printers works great! And even more amazing was the speed of the prints for some reason. OK it wasn't the most high resolution picture I printed out but both the Epson Stylus Photo 870 and the HP did print it out in speeds I've never experienced before from Preview.
Although, from Harv's experience I will keep an eye on things with the Epson.
kps, a tip for you: If you do suffer from the fans running a lot on your PowerBook after the install, try Drive 10 and do a defragmentation. That did the trick for my machine and I hardly hear the fans anymore, only while working hard in Photoshop.
Post by: kps on October 29, 2003, 07:46:42 AM
Post by: gapstr on October 29, 2003, 11:06:59 AM
QUOTE(giantmike @ Oct 26 2003, 7:39 PM)
...I got it for $20....
Where and how, please?
A. G.
Post by: giantmike on October 29, 2003, 11:15:09 AM
Government and Educational users can get it for $70. All others gotta pay $130
Post by: Bill on October 29, 2003, 02:10:38 PM
Is it an on-line form to fill out or perhaps going by way of apple care maybe?
Post by: giantmike on October 29, 2003, 03:57:30 PM
It's an online form that asks for your model and serial number, so they can check their database to see that you have indeed bought the computer after October 8th (that's the date listed).
Post by: Mayo on October 29, 2003, 05:53:27 PM
Post by: Bill on October 29, 2003, 06:00:48 PM
QUOTE(giantmike @ Oct 29 2003, 2:57 PM)
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/
It's an online form that asks for your model and serial number, so they can check their database to see that you have indeed bought the computer after October 8th (that's the date listed).
It's an online form that asks for your model and serial number, so they can check their database to see that you have indeed bought the computer after October 8th (that's the date listed).
Thanks GM. <gr>
Post by: Larry on November 13, 2003, 04:38:44 PM
I upgraded and yes it took ages. But thenI noticed several applications didn't work and they froze.
So I did a fresh install. I missed iChatAV on the top bar. Its a bit sluggish - my post is slower to arrive.
ibook G3 600mhz 384 Ram Speedtouch 510 v4 ethernet modem
Post by: Bill on November 13, 2003, 05:03:40 PM
Talk about taking a chance on power going out!!
Power stayed on .. ran utility test afterwards ... all is just fine. Knock-on-head.
Post by: taliesin on November 15, 2003, 01:09:28 PM
Getting Panther inside took most of the past week's Mac use, but that was partly because my ISP has had problems which saw me without Net access for much of five days, and mainly because it's the first time since I rallied to Apple that I've totally wiped a machine and started from scratch, rethinking everything.
With the new cat came the hour to reconsider the size of my partitions, what programmes I use and which have become redundant with the development of Mac OS X, and what I now do with the computer, which has changed a great deal in the past couple of years.
Music and other arts now play a much bigger part in my life again than they have done, for instance, and this led me to dispense with two now unnecessary partitions and make the best use of my hard disk space.
So, while I've been on OS 10.3 for a little over a week, the past few hours have been my first real chance for a look under the hood, as well as on the desktop.
Under Jaguar, I used FruitMenu a great deal as one way of getting at my applications fast, and I may restore it, but for now I'm more than happy with an uncluttered dock and with what James Thomson has most recently done to DragThing (at VT) as a terrific launcher and switcher, once set up, which takes time.
Exposé? Yes. Fabulous, useful and great to have at the disposal of three F keys.
The much revamped "at a glance" Finder? A major improvement.
X11? I've only just started digging, but it's looking very good, relatively easy to work with, especially compared with the hodgepodge I'd compiled on Jaguar mainly for the investigation and use of Open Source software.
The all-in-one Activity Monitor? Again, an improvement in my eyes.
The handling of PDF files? Ditto, along with the new features of Preview.
Shortcomings? Frankly, I've yet to find anything substantial to moan about, though I'm sure I will soon enough!
But the sheer swiftness of Panther (on my eMac 700 MHz, 768 MB) is admirable, and that from a guy who prided himself on not being a boring speed freak...
Apart from the overall system speed, I really appreciate an end to sluggishness in such things as the Help Viewer. I use contextual menus a very great deal, occasionally by accident. One of my most frequent mistakes was to trigger Help when I didn't want it and have to wait for so long to dispense with it again.
The Mail app is faster too, while I have an impression -- but just an impression, I've not timed it -- that iDisk access is swifter as well as easier. This matters to me, since my iDisk is used almost daily as the place where I send the pics for my 'blog. And for one or two other things.
Since I was among those who finally decided to let Apple have my money for .Mac and the storage space, I do like to make the best use of it...
Post by: kbeartx on November 15, 2003, 01:51:50 PM
Students and Teachers can get insane discounts on certain Apple products.
- kbeartx
Post by: Bill on November 15, 2003, 02:42:12 PM
Also heard they have to be with Apple for ??? amount of time before they're eligible.