Post by: Gary S on November 01, 2003, 07:21:19 PM
I just wanted to start this thread so we who haven't have something else to talk about. Personally I want to but........I want to keep my 2 HDDs in my Quicksilver the way they are right now...OS9.2.2 and OSX.2.8. I'd like to put another HDD in and run Panther on that for a while or repartition my 9.2.2 drive and stick it on there. I'm not in any hurry but I'd like to play with it.
Post by: RHPConsult on November 01, 2003, 08:24:25 PM
How's that for a "mature" topic, Gary?
Originally, I thought I might put (another) new drive in my Pismo, so it could "carry" partitions with 10.2.8, 9.2.2, and 8.6 + all my old files that require some "legacy" - - on-the-road.
Regaining my senses, now I think it may be wiser to max the ram in the beige, get a new 60 gig drive for it (the OEM was/is 6 gigs) and have all 3 OSes on it . . . with its 21" color monitor.
Since I put X on the Pismo, I hardly use the beige and I miss that monitor!
What does anybody think about this plan?
No, I don't want to spring for a new Mac, when a 60 gig IBM drive is 65 bucks and 256 MB of ram is $39 for 256MB!
Post by: kelly on November 01, 2003, 09:15:34 PM
I'll get it eventually.
OS X on the Beiges can be tricky Richard.
Just ask KBear.
Post by: kps on November 01, 2003, 09:26:08 PM
Dick, I think you're ready for a dual processor G5, just remember to buckle up and bolt down that chair...you don't want to end up like the guy in the G5 commercial.
Gary, I'm staying with Jaguar on the G4 / 350Mhz tower, I'm leery of upgrading that machine. Jag is ultra solid on it and has been for over a year (even with all those updates).
Post by: Gary S on November 01, 2003, 11:17:32 PM
I agree with KPS that you should go for a G5.
I still use my Beige G3 with OS9.1 everyday, along with the G4 933 running 10.2.8. However even with all my upgrades: Sonnet 500 Zif, 40 Gig Maxtor 7200 HD/5 partitions, 768MB Ram, 32mb ATI Radeon Mac Edition Video Card, Keyspan USB-PCI Card, I still didn't install OSX on it. It's kind of made for < X.
It's still pretty quick with 9.1. I wish I would have spent $100 more and upgrades it with the Sonnet G4 but speed wise I think they were pretty close. The 66mhz bus is a limiting factor. It's maxed out with Ram and Video.OSX.2.8 has become a working, solid System for me though; after upgrading almost all of my apps, so... right now X.3 would be a plaything until the bugs are worked out and improvements are made. It took a while for Apple to get OSX to X.2.8, which, in my opinion is a great System.
I should add that I only migrated to OSX.2 last Spring when I bought my G4 so it's still pretty exciting for me.
Post by: Al on November 01, 2003, 11:51:12 PM
The beige G3 is great with OS 9, things are much more snappier and reactive. But Jaguar adds a few functions that are beneficial, even on a beige. More stable system and updated software for it.
I personally wouldn't run a beige with OS X without an upgraded video card (minimal)(Rage 128 is good choice for money or a Radeon like Gary's). There should be no problems upgrading the OS to X on a beige. I know, I had three and still have two. They all run OS X.2.8.
I will wait a while for Panther. I have partitions on both my B&W 600 MHz G4 and MDD 1.25 GHz G4 just to try Panther on. But will wait for the air to clear first a bit.
Richard, a dual 2 GHz G5 would be sweet, you'd like it. But, it really depends on what the individual is doing with thier Macs to justify such an upgrade. Just think, wasn't the 128K Mac over $3000 when it first came out? And look what you can get today for that and just a little more.
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 12:07:46 AM
I installed Panther on a partition of my second drive on this 933 early this morning.
After getting a few bugs worked out today [once I got some sleep] (like mouse control etc), I started thinking about installing Panther on my main drive where I'm mostly on replacing 10.2.8.
BUT!
I'm finding a few more .... errr .... indifference's .... that I'd better look into more before hand because like you and many others 10.2.8 is rock solid in my book.
Doubt that what I've just discovered will hold me back from taking the complete plunge towards Panther, yet until ... not yet.
One small glitch for example is 'preview'.
Before one could click the 'green' button for an actual size view or go to the menu.
Now this new version has a lot more features which can be customized but I've yet to find the simple actual size feature.
Post by: Gary S on November 02, 2003, 12:22:39 AM
All the reports I've read say Preview is so much better in Panther. Probably just more bells and whistles to figure out.
How do you like that brushed metal look all over the place?
I've been reading over here:
ArsTechnica Mac Forum
Most of it's over my head depending on the thread...if there's programers posting or not.
What, Panther's been out for little over a week and they are already posting improvments in how Apple should code and so forth. It's pretty funny.
BTW,
Here a Hires desktop picture for Panther.
Hires Panther Desktop pic
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 12:34:10 AM
Guess what I was saying before is ... gotta put those lazy gray matters .. who's been taking a nap back to work.
Brushed metal look: never gave it much thought till you brought it up.
Then again, I've only about four or five hours on panther.
It is looking good so far.
Post by: Gary S on November 02, 2003, 12:38:15 AM
That Hires desktop pic I refered to is only 31K!
Keep us informed on how it's going.
I'm going sleepy.
Post by: sandbox on November 02, 2003, 01:08:41 AM
Between the two I have all the computing I can use.
HotFax Message Center, photo & word processing, email & surfing, TV & Music A/V card, scanning & printing. I even run security cameras with spy software, all on machines that could be replaced for $200 apiece.
From the factory I had a bad modem, and I had to replace the mouseballs twice, that’s all the hardware problems I can think of. I burnt a Viewsonic monitor that was replaced by them. I had a bit of trouble finding the right USB and Firewire cards but that’s my fault. Because we do so much phone work, a laptop that plugged into a cellphone would be road worthy, and if Videolink(smithmicro) doesn’t work well on my G3 it would be a reason to get a faster/newer setup but not yet necessary. Still it would need to run or maybe even boot into OS9.
I’ve had no problems to speak of, not even freezes since I’ve installed OS 9.2, and to me, a box that works without me fiddling with it is worth keeping.
Dick, I believe I read that a hardware requirement for Panther is “built-in USB sockets” anything earlier won’t work.
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 01:45:40 AM
Post by: krissel on November 02, 2003, 02:04:01 AM
But with running 9.1 as my main OS, I have to be in SB's box (
) on this one. At present I can run all the software I need to use and at a decent speed. Sure it would be nice to have a new, flashy G5 but I'd have to give up a lot of my third party apps that I enjoy and buy upgrades to many more. I do have Jag on my PB but I confess to rarely even booting the machine. I need a large monitor and the sometimes flakey behavior of the PB is aggravating. It's OK if I have to travel, but...Also I use Jag when I'm at my folk's on their eMac so I do keep up to a degree.
But until there is something that I need and can't do at all on my trusty 9600, I'm just going to roll on...
Then again, if those lottery numbers hit...
Post by: Highmac on November 02, 2003, 03:58:23 AM
On the subject of price, 99GBP comes to around $145, give or take. US price shows as $129, but do you have to pay taxes on top of that? (UK price includes VAT - sales tax - and shipping)
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 04:34:54 AM
Post by: RobW on November 02, 2003, 07:25:49 AM
For now, I'm staying with Jaguar. It's working well for me, and I don't have the time or energy these days for a major move. I'm feeling a bit cramped with my 20gb drive (with the partitions) and am considering getting a larger (external) drive. I think I'll need to do that before moving up to Panther.
I've been reading some of the threads with interest, but I really need to start paying more attention to the threads about the glitches--like the printing thing--whatever that was.
Post by: Gary S on November 02, 2003, 09:47:47 AM
Here's Apple with a gazillion employees in Cupertino and all over the World, most of them very creative people, working on new stuff (hardware & software) to satisfy themselves and Steve and ultimately percieving that what they do will be pleasing to the rest of the Mac users.
To quote Bod Dylan:
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking to far
That not much,
Is really sacred.........
Then you have the advertising department who, to quote Bob Dylan again, tries to:
"Con you into thinking your the one
That can win what's never been won
That can do what's never been done
Meantime life outside still goes on all around you.".......
But it's alright Ma,
It's life, and life only. From It's alright Ma (I'm only Bleeding)-1965
I like my old Macs! I've grown accustom to their face.
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 11:52:42 AM
Post by: Epaminondas on November 02, 2003, 12:53:48 PM
Yes - I, too, am mesmerized by Siren call of progress.
I hear that the MacOS 9.x is really great - I am looking forward to all those fantastic new features!
The B&W 450 server came with three Ultra2 SCSI drives - it's a real workhorse. Enough room for at least three OSs.
Let's see - 8.6, 9.2.2 for now. But I dunno if the MacOS X is ready yet for prime time.
Maybe OS X is begining to mature enough for hard drive #3.
Or maybe it is time to give Yellow Dog 3.0.1 a whirl.
But for those still stuck on the bleeding edge:
Some lower prices for Panther
Post by: Dreambird on November 02, 2003, 01:45:51 PM
I tend to think of it the way Krissel does:
QUOTE
But until there is something that I need and can't do at all on my trusty 9600, I'm just going to roll on...
Also not high on my $$ priority list right now... I'd need a much bigger HD, yada yada... still getting what I need out of OS9.1
Post by: Bernie on November 02, 2003, 02:02:52 PM
Post by: Bill on November 02, 2003, 03:06:30 PM
See me
Post by: () on November 02, 2003, 04:17:38 PM
froma guy that bought it and didn't realize that his new computer had Panther on it, so I got lucky... However, I decided to end Mac OS 9 altogether and just work using Mac OS X Panther. I had no probs with Panther and love it better than Jaguar.
I will wait for a G5 or a G6 at a later time when the cost comes down, but i am happy with the iMac G4 and Panther.
Everything works great...
to Apple and TS Memebers
Post by: Gary S on November 02, 2003, 04:40:25 PM
QUOTE
See me
Jeez Bill,
You got a nice pair of....legs there.
Post by: Bernie on November 02, 2003, 04:47:18 PM
LOL
Post by: MamaMoose on November 03, 2003, 03:03:47 AM
Since I will get Panther at a very low price (part of the G5 purchase), I will probably go to Panther by the New Year. I tried it at my local Apple dealer (not part of Apple) and I really liked it.
MamaMoose
Post by: Gregg on November 03, 2003, 07:53:42 AM
Wife wants a yellow Corvette however. Always has.
Post by: RHPConsult on November 03, 2003, 09:31:25 AM
QUOTE
don't think the beige G3 will do a good job running Panther, even if you could install it...not sure if you can at all. Didn't I read something about a "class action lawsuit" by G3 owners?
I only hope Jaguar will find a happy home.
Gary S sez . . .
QUOTE
It's kind of made for < X.
I want to see if it - - (Jag) - - works at a speed accommodating to the proclivities of a gentleman approaching his 75th birthday, rather than some post pubescent youth . . .
. . . you “regulars” will have to decide who fits into that categorySandbox hypothesizes on Panther’s need for USB . . .
Am not looking at Panther. The other variety of feline will do just nicely, thank you.
DB queries Jag on a Pismo . . .
Never fear. I’ve had X-->10.2.8 sailing along on my 400 for many, many months and it couldn’t be neater . . . for me at least. That’s what lies back of my first post on this thread: what’ll happen if I try it on a beige. B)
Al
Very reassuring, thanks.
Re: my springing for new hardware, i.e a G5,
Hey guys, in 2003 I’ve already bought and paid for a splendid new hip for my beloved . . . every mechanical contrivance should work so perfectly . . . while a new knee is scheduled for installation in my very own carcass just four short weeks from this morning, so that’s enough hardware for one year, methinks!
Post by: krissel on November 03, 2003, 10:37:52 PM
QUOTE(RHPConsult @ Nov 3 2003, 10:31 AM)
. . . while a new knee is scheduled for installation in my very own carcass just four short weeks from this morning, so that’s enough hardware for one year, methinks!
That's exactly what I meant in my post...upgrade only when kneeded.
Post by: Mayo on November 04, 2003, 02:47:08 AM
QUOTE
No need to if the old ones are still reliable, get me where I want to be...
That is exactly where I was until I installed Panther on my wife's iMac. The improvements over OS 9 have just blown me away and I didn't wait to install 10.3 on my iBook.
For being such a major change: erasing my drives, two OS installs on each Mac, copying and moving files, upgrading my fav/most used apps, the entire process has been easy and painless. I had not one glitch associated with the actual installation process, including the application upgrades.
Both G3 Macs seem speedier and I like the Panther interface a lot. It is like having new Macs. I don't recall ever feeling this way about previous OS upgrades. I don't even miss the custom Control Strip modules, but I do admit to wishing for an OS X version of FinderPop....
Time will tell, of course, but I am optimistic about the future stability and usability of OS X.
There may or may not be much difference between 10.2 and 10.3, but there sure is a heck of a difference between 9 and 10.3. I'm glad that I waited and I'm glad I made the jump. Best $129 I've spent, computer-wise.
Post by: RHPConsult on November 04, 2003, 08:57:45 AM
Wow! You should make an ad for Steve and his minions.
Kris
Somewhere, somehow, there are punishments available for puns like that
Post by: cdub1988 on November 04, 2003, 09:51:54 AM
I messed with Jag. It was nice, but had a few shortcomings, in my opinion.
Running 9.1 on the 6500 and will continue to do so as long as I can.
Can't afford the hardware anyways. Costs too much for eye candy that will run X.3.
Take care, all.
Chris
Post by: taliesin on November 04, 2003, 10:08:19 AM
Mine was delayed en route and is due by then.
But it's a pricey process, especially since I've got a "family pack" ordered to take Marianne's machine on a step as well!
I was definitively turned on to Panther by the Apple Expo here this year, less because of the speed some people rave about -- though it obviously is faster -- than by some aspects of the revised user interface, which is better than Jaguar's.
Panther is also a significant upgrade from the Mac developers' point of view and that side of our gorgeous machines interests me more and more.
That said, I see absolutely no reason to rush into Panther unless you want to or "need" to. Before going to a major change in OS these days, I tend to weigh up the cost of it. Jaguar brought a few unwelcome surprises regarding third party applications.
If you're using applications like Toast 5 or iView Media Pro, I'm not sure that it's indispensable to upgrade them -- their home sites and FAQs are vague about this -- but the manufacturers nevertheless seem to recommend that you'd do better to do so.
That's already a further 100 dollars to shell out at the very least...
And so on.
The other thing about upgrading is the old adage made famous by several TSers: "If it ain't broke..."
Jaguar has been, for me, such a darned good OS -- reliable, stable and adaptable -- that it's mainly curiosity and the developer side of Panther that induce me to install it. Few people I know, but there are some lucky souls here, have successfully upgraded through the various incarnations of Jag to 10.2.8 without a very serious glitch or two on the way.
Including a good number of us whose internet connections went down, for instance, with 10.2.4. The trouble surrounding Apple's first release of 10.2.8, indeed, has been only too well and painfully documented on the Net.
It's pretty scandalous when Apple releases something into the wild that causes so much hassle and is apparently so inadequately tested ahead of time, but those wretched people at Cupertino do it so often these days that I will no longer risk an automatic upgrade of any major change they make.
Instead I systematically use the download-to-desktop option and check the Web, here and elsewhere, for other people's tales of woe before again screwing up my own system.
From what I've read to date, Panther is -- almost surprisingly, given the recent track record -- bug-free.
But I'm not going that way without a complete back-up of Jag first, while the easy install over Jag option is a decided "no-no".
I'll archive and install.
Post by: Mayo on November 04, 2003, 11:20:47 AM
If I did more printing I might have to rethink this strategy...
In my case the apps I wanted to upgrade/add didn't amount to all that much dough...around $100. Even the upgrade to PHotoshop 7 around a year ago only set me back $85 through Amazon.
Don't get me wrong...if an older Mac is still doing the job, I see no reason to upgrade. But if you have a Mac that will accept the Panther upgrade then it is the Cat's Meow.
I'd be happy to shill for Steve and Company...for the right price.
Post by: krissel on November 05, 2003, 12:50:52 AM
QUOTE(RHPConsult @ Nov 4 2003, 9:57 AM)
Kris
Somewhere, somehow, there are punishments available for puns like that
Somewhere, somehow, there are punishments available for puns like that
Hmm, I guess that's why they are called punishments.
Post by: Gregg on November 05, 2003, 12:29:37 PM
QUOTE(krissel @ Nov 5 2003, 12:50 AM)
Hmm, I guess that's why they are called punishments.
And so, what is your weapun of choice?