Author Topic: Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon  (Read 1749 times)

Offline sandbox

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 7825
    • View Profile
    • http://
Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon
« on: January 26, 2008, 06:58:12 AM »
QUOTE
A biofuel startup in Illinois can make ethanol from just about anything organic for less than $1 per gallon, and it wouldn't interfere with food supplies, company officials said.

Coskata, which is backed by General Motors and other investors, uses bacteria to convert almost any organic material, from corn husks (but not the corn itself) to municipal trash, into ethanol.


http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2008/01/ethanol23

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 10:02:24 AM »
So, stop talking and do it! salute.gif Right now, the biggest impact these types of companies are having is to drive up the price of corn, soybeans and other crops. Not bad for the farmers but it may have a big impact on the final price of any fuels created from the crop. AFAIK, the current models of corn and other harvesters simply throws this trash on the ground and it is then plowed under. If there is enough demand for this byproduct, new designs can be built or new equipment could be made. But without some major expenses, this trash is not going to make it very close to these new fuel companies even if they are in the same county as the farmer.

It is interesting that what the company actually says is not quite what the headlines say:
QUOTE
The end result will be E85 sold at the pump for about a dollar cheaper per gallon than gasoline, according to the company.
A dollar cheaper could still be $3/gal. rolleyes.gif And the higher oil gets, the smaller percentage difference. Let's see some real production on the scale needed and see what the actual price might be. All methods of production don't scale up lineally. Still, I sure hope this is one that does and will start making some inroads in our dangerous dependence on foreign oil. yahoo.gif cheer.gif
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline Jack W

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 2597
    • View Profile
Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 10:15:10 AM »
From the article:

"Coskata uses existing gasification technology to convert almost any organic material into synthesis gas, which is a mix of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Rather than fermenting that gas or using thermo-chemical catalysts to produce ethanol, Coskata pumps it into a reactor containing bacteria that consume the gas and excrete ethanol. Richard Tobey, Coskata's vice president of engineering, says the process yields 99.7 percent pure ethanol."

The ideal chemical reaction would be:

(2)CO (Carbon Monoxide) + (4)H2 (Hydrogen) = C2H5OH (ethanol) + H20 (water)
and this would only occur if the feed materials were in the proper ratios — highly unlikely.

As noted above, the main by-product is water. And there most certainly be other byproducts, as in most chemical reactions.

And the process to separate the ethanol from water is usually distillation. However, ethanol and water form a 95% mixture which has a boiling point below either of the constituents, making it very difficult to obtan "99.7%" pure ethanol. They must use some other trick to achieve that purity.

Another thing is that this is currently a batch process. Some neat chemical engineering will need to be done to make this a continuous process, like that used in gasoline refineries to create the volume necessary.

And you still have the transportation problems to get the gasoline and ethanol to a common mixing facility to make the E85.

Also:

"Coskata won't have a pilot plant running until this time next year, and it will produce just 40,000 gallons a year. Still, several experts said Coskata shows enough promise to leave them cautiously optimistic."

Scaling up from a lab size to commercial production will be an awesome task, especially considering the quantities needed.

Just look at how many cars you see on the road as you drive along. And, for instance, each is using ~ 3 gallons per hour. Multiply that by the total number of cars on the road translates into an enormous amount of fuel being consumed.

I do wish them luck, and hope they are successful. Ethanol from corn only returns 30% more energy than that consumed in the process. And that 30% gets whittled away transporting the ethanol to a refinery. And the demand for ethanol from corn is forcing many other commodity prices up — milk, beef and many others because of the competition for the corn. Voo-Doo economics in my estimation. I think the spin is a political football being used to show that we are going to become independent on foreign oil. Twon't happen. And of course, the agricultural community is highly in favor of this, because it increases the demand for their product. And this puts pressure on land space for other crops such as soy beans. Crop rotation is necessary for continuous use of the soil in a productive manner.

- Jack
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 10:22:39 AM by Jack W »
Good to be Here.

My Macs: 2010 27" alum iMac 2.8GHz, Snow Leopard 10.6.8/Mavericks 10.9.5, 4GB SDRAM (Workhorse),
13” Late 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, 10.6.8, 2GB SDRAM,
(2) External HD - Firewire/USB Macally Enclosures  with 1TB Hitachi Drives,
Time Machine external drive - ditto above - 1/2 TimeMac

Offline Gregg

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 11748
    • View Profile
    • http://
Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2008, 11:27:12 AM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 26 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is interesting that what the company actually says is not quite what the headlines say


That shouldn't surprise anyone.

How come these guys are so much smarter than everyone else? It's been over 30 years since "Gasohol" was sold widely. Now all of a sudden there's some tremendous breakthrough that dramatically reduces the production cost? I would expect a more gradual ramping up (down?) and suspect this would not pan out to be as efficient as these claims. But, I don't believe in Santa Claus either.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline sandbox

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 7825
    • View Profile
    • http://
Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 12:49:02 AM »
Coskata is a GM backed production, I can't imagine that GM would build all their vehicles for E85 and then throw their money into the wind. We have an orange process going on in Florida, the university USF has an one for Algae and sea grass. Wood pulp in Mississippi and Alabama, I've seen them all, like micro breweries, they will eventually lead to regional refineries in the southeast. It may take 5 years but in 5 years we will be supplementing petroleum with something else. I spent many years in S. Dakota burning Ethanol so I know it works.  

other data http://www.investincelluloseethanol.com/