Author Topic: Spam puzzle  (Read 2441 times)

Offline RHPConsult

  • TS Addict
  • Posts: 7859
    • View Profile
    • http://
Spam puzzle
« on: August 22, 2011, 04:29:55 PM »
I am receiving these days an increasing frequency – for me – of a new kind of spam. Its "Subject” is usually one or two benign nouns, to which is added an extra long e-address I do not recognize, while the message is always an "Attachment" icon, only, (which I never open). My Junk filters are not catching these items. and I have not the slightest idea how I “made it” to some scumball’s list.

The Question: If I am using MAIL’s ability to show some part of any message in the InBox in an adjustable panel at the bottom of the window, does that constitute an “opening” of the message (however rudimentary) so that the miscreant who sent it to me receives some form of confirmation that it was delivered to a live address?

Humbug!

Offline jchuzi

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 3094
    • View Profile
Spam puzzle
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 04:50:59 PM »
I can't answer your question but I do have a suggestion: If you know that the message is spam, control-click it and select Delete from the popup menu. That will get rid of it without your having to open it. Since I don't use Mail, I go under the assumption that it will be moved to the Trash folder (called Deleted Items in Entourage, my email program). If that's the case, empty that folder and be done with it.
Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P700, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Spam puzzle
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 06:42:16 PM »
AFAIK, viewing the message, in any manner (bottom, center, left column), will constitute viewing it. Period. The problem is not what you see in the message. It is what you do NOT see...a remote, 1 pixel by 1 pixel, transparent gif will be impossible for you to visually recognize (even with good reading glasses and a magnifier!). And that is all it takes for your 'viewing' the message for it to send that info back to the SPAMmers server. You have just confirmed that your address is valid, alive and that you will open practically anything sent to it. You'd think that the least these scum balls would do is reply with a "Thank you, very much" message, since your addy is now more valuable. No honor among thieves, I guess. dntknw.gif wink.gif It is this capability to hide remote images that makes viewing messages so nice. No no downloading remote images, no image displays. No image displays, no messages back to the SPAMmer's server. You can then do anything you want with the message without worry. Personally, I'd simply tell SPAMsieve to add it to its SPAM corpus. You can also often select plain-text messages from sites, this avoids the problem altogether.

Do I understand that you are not using SPAMsieve? eek2.gif
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 06:43:19 PM by Xairbusdriver »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline RHPConsult

  • TS Addict
  • Posts: 7859
    • View Profile
    • http://
Spam puzzle
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 12:55:34 AM »
ABD:

Let's be sure I have this correctly. Merely highlighting a Message in the InBox is an affirmative answer? Even if you don't "open" the message, or an attachment, in any way?

Then, pray tell, how – on the first occasion of receiving such mail – does the unwary recipient tell if its a spam scam, or, say, an invitation to his 65th high school reunion, chaired by a classmate who's been married 3 times and has no readily recognizable surname.

Are you issuing a blanket warning that to do anything, anything at all, with an "inhabitant" of your Inbox (even Highlight––>Delete) will set off an alarm in SpamCentralCommand?

• • • •


No, I don't use SPAMsieve. How does it figure-out how to sift the HS Reunion invites from the appeals of "altruistic" Nigerian bankers?

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Spam puzzle
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2011, 08:04:37 AM »
QUOTE
Merely highlighting a Message in the InBox is an affirmative answer?
There's no "affirmative answer" as such. But highlighting it does make it appear in some form of window in Mail, right? It make no difference how much of it is displayed. The point is, if you have "remote images" set to display, that sends a message to the SPAMmers server to send the message. All messages such as that are recorded on any server. Whether the SPAMmer makes use of that recorded fact is unknown, but why take the chance? Turn off "display remote images" in Mails prefs.

This is sometimes referred to as displaying html. However, it is not quite the same. All this setting does is to tell Mail to disregard any html tag to display an image that includes a URL to where the image is actually stored. Even with this setting Unchecked, you will still have the "privilege" of wasting time and bits to view the useless html formatting that often obscures the whole point of any message—to convey a message. But, if you like pretty colors, irrelevant text styles and boxes, that's up to you. Apple provides no way to turn that junk off in Mail.

QUOTE
Are you issuing a blanket warning that to do anything, anything at all, with an "inhabitant" of your Inbox (even Highlight––>Delete) will set off an alarm in SpamCentralCommand?
If you can highlight tow or more messages at once, you'll not see either/any of them actually displayed. However, the only efficient way of doing that that I know of is to have a Spam/Junk mailbox set up for them. In order to get a message into that mailbox, of course, one needs a rule for Mail or a corpus built by SPAMsieve to be working. Actually, you can also simply have that mailbox automatically trashed/emptied on a schedule period of time.

"Opening" any message is accomplished by selecting its row in whatever list it's in. That's simply how it works, in Mail, anyway. The only control you have is to turn off the display of remote images

QUOTE
Then, pray tell, how – on the first occasion of receiving such mail – does the unwary recipient tell if its a spam scam, or, say, an invitation to his 65th high school reunion, chaired by a classmate who's been married 3 times and has no readily recognizable surname.
Well, certainly not by reading/displaying it! laugh.gif I would suggest creating a rule, with several conditions, that safely confirm it is a valid message. Don't forget to include positive attributes, also. Nor will this protect you from SPAM coming from your Windows using HS 'friends' who don't use/update their anti-virus software.

Or...

You could just train SPAMsieve...


Another way is to use one of the many aliases available from most every email provider. Simply give those you want to hear from one of your aliases and note who has it. When you start getting SPAM to that address, simply delete it, create a new one and send it to those "friends" that had the old one...and remind them to update their anti-virus software and, more importantly, use it. sad.gif

Or...

You could just train SPAMsieve...


QUOTE
How does [SPAMsieve] figure-out how to sift the HS Reunion invites from the appeals of "altruistic" Nigerian bankers?
Simply put, by using heuristics. All Mail does is follow the rules that the user meticulously builds. That great for grouping messages with common traits such as the senders address, to...well, you can read the conditions available in the Mail->Rules list. But the items listed are not always the same in SPAM. The sender is hardly ever the same, same for the subject, words in the body, etc. That's why it's more efficient to let the computer do the 'rule creation.' And that's exactly what SPAMsieve does. Sure, it will probably include the from address, assuming it is not already in its database, but it will also look for the structure of the message (what words are used where, which words are misspelled and how, etc.) and many other things. Need I remind you that it will be king this at a close to the clock speed of your cpu? wink.gif Or that its algorthyms are updated often? Or that it does its thing without actually opening the message? What's not to like? dntknw.gif

I forgot the actual procedure SPAMsieve uses to notify you of suspected SPAM. It uses its own mailbox to dump those types of message and then you can peruse the list, again, without opening them, and note which ones might be 'false positives.' You can then select those and use the "Train as Good" menu item. Any messages that are still suspect can then be selected as a group (assuming more than one is listed) and either dumped into the trash or, much better, used with the SPAMsieve "Train as SPAM" menu item.

I still have a "Junk" mailbox, but it is pretty much limited to stuff I might want to see before getting moved to the trash or deleted in 30 days.

I'm sure I've over-generalized and missed some details, but eye've knot maid two mini mistakes, sew for this yeer! rolleyes.gif Nor is SPAMsieve the only third-party solution, I'd have to do a search for alternatives and I'll leave that as "an exercise for the reader." tongue.gif

A computer is no more than a tool, you can make it do wondrous things if you learn to use it properly. Otherwise, it simply does whatever the company that built it tells it to do and how. That works fairly well with automobiles and ovens, of course. Not so much with a modern computer that is many times more powerful than those used to launch men to the Moon and return them safely.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 09:46:22 AM by Xairbusdriver »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline Jack W

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 2597
    • View Profile
Spam puzzle
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2011, 08:40:13 AM »
I do not have mail automatically downloaded.

I do a Command-I to see whats on the server, and delete unwanted messages before downloading. (not necessarily only spam).

And I rarely get any spam.

FWIW
Apple Mail
Good to be Here.

My Macs: 2010 27" alum iMac 2.8GHz, Snow Leopard 10.6.8/Mavericks 10.9.5, 4GB SDRAM (Workhorse),
13” Late 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, 10.6.8, 2GB SDRAM,
(2) External HD - Firewire/USB Macally Enclosures  with 1TB Hitachi Drives,
Time Machine external drive - ditto above - 1/2 TimeMac

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Spam puzzle
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 09:49:14 AM »
I seem to have lost a post...

Command-I, at least in Mail 5.0 and Lion only shows mailboxes set up on the server with the bytes and number of messages listed. I don't see any individual messages, so I have no idea how one would delete them before downloading. dntknw.gif YMMV with different versions of the app and the OS.
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline Jack W

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 2597
    • View Profile
Spam puzzle
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2011, 10:53:57 AM »
Maybe it's with my service provider. Time Warner Cable POP Account.

Mail V 4.5 Mac OS X V10.6.8 (these may account for it).
Good to be Here.

My Macs: 2010 27" alum iMac 2.8GHz, Snow Leopard 10.6.8/Mavericks 10.9.5, 4GB SDRAM (Workhorse),
13” Late 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, 10.6.8, 2GB SDRAM,
(2) External HD - Firewire/USB Macally Enclosures  with 1TB Hitachi Drives,
Time Machine external drive - ditto above - 1/2 TimeMac

Offline kimmer

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 9086
    • View Profile
Spam puzzle
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 12:10:28 PM »
WOW.gif Had no idea about command-I! What a cool feature!

Thanks, Jack.


(FTR: Mail 4.5, OS 10.6.8, I don't run Time Warner and I do have a POP acct)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 12:11:01 PM by kimmer »

Offline daryl66

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
    • View Profile
Spam puzzle
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 01:53:09 PM »
QUOTE(kimmer @ Aug 23 2011, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
WOW.gif Had no idea about command-I! What a cool feature!

Thanks, Jack.


(FTR: Mail 4.5, OS 10.6.8, I don't run Time Warner and I do have a POP acct)


ME TOO.  Mail 5.0, OS 10.7.1 and Yahoo POP.  

I was not aware that Not downloading e mails  from the server was an option.  I have always  download to Mail and have all messages removed from the server after  one day as selected in the Mail preferences.

Off Subject somewhat:   An acquantiance PC user was being forced off of  MSN    (divorce from Quest) as her mail provider and I was astounded to find out that she had over 700 e mails that she wanted to keep. What was even more astounding was I found out that none of these e mails were ever downloaded to her computer but all were on the MSN server.  jawdrop.gif

Daryl whistling.gif
2019 27" iMac OSX 14.4 2011 MBP OSX 10.13.6, 2017 MBAir OSX 12.7.4, iPad IOS 17.4.1, iPhone13 IOS 17.4.1, iPhone SE IOS 17.4.1, Watch 9, M2 MBA OSX 14.4

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Spam puzzle
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 02:17:18 PM »
POP and IMAP differences. However, this kind of task is what computers are made for, why would I want to do all this myself? dntknw.gif

Wanting to keep emails is why I download them. I still don't understand why anyone would trust a third-party to store important items, especially in something as fragile as a "cloud!" rolleyes.gif And I have at least 5 times 700. And those are only the ones I want to keep, there are surely 20 times 700 that have been deleted in the past few years. dntknw.gif

With SPAMsieve and Mail rules, plus several aliases, I get no more than two or three SPAM messages a month, now. I think these scumbags are doing other things, like fighting civil wars or stealing food from children...

I just have Mail download any new messages every 30 minutes while it runs just about the whole time the Mac is ON. Growl shows me a bit of any message that comes in while Mail remains in the background. :thumb up:
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes: