Author Topic: OT: What is it about Americans...  (Read 2399 times)

Offline Highmac

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« on: October 07, 2003, 10:19:02 AM »
Lavatory pans as a political statement and, going back a few years, it was an American (Bill Heine) who installed a giant shark in the roof of a house in Oxford... as a political statement. It's still there, to my knowledge.

Whether or not you agree with the sentiments being expressed, you have to admire someone willing to raise two fingers (or, in America, one) to the establishment by using their own rules against them.
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Offline Dreambird

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2003, 12:45:56 PM »
jawdrop.gif  Well... it is a definite *cough** statement!  rolleyes.gif  wacko.gif  biggrin.gif
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Offline Epaminondas

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2003, 01:21:26 PM »
<< Whether or not you agree with the sentiments being expressed, you have to admire someone willing to raise two fingers (or, in America, one) to the establishment by using their own rules against them. >>
 
The solitary finger gesture - though certainly holding it's place of honour within the broad context of American culture - is by no means an American invention or monoply.
 
The earliest written reference that I have been able to unearth is in the Latin literature - though I suspect that this most forthright form of communication may even predate the written, and perhaps even the spoken, word.

I would not be surprised if scholar's one day unearth earlier pictorial evidence of this from as far as 30,000 years ago in the original graffiti: the caves of  Lascaux, Altamira or Chauvet.

As you contemplate the gesture - perhaps even forming it yourself - it may bring you into closer communication with your earliest ancestors than any word that you are currently capable of speaking.


But you will find written references going back as far as Roman times - prior even to the birth of the Christ, the Christian Saviour.
 
My favourite is the tale of a gentleman in the Roman arena - I believe the story is from Juvenal  - from around 200 - 100 B.C. -
 
At the moment that the hungry lions were released into the arena, the gentleman is said to have calmly turned to the Emperor's box and displayed the "medium unguium" -
 
The middle finger.
 
 
Take a moment out of your busy life to visualize the scene.
 
The smells - roasted peanuts, wine, dust, musk, perfume and urine.

The sounds of the crowd all around you.  The hawkers, selling their wares

The people touching, seated next to you.
 
The man below you whose death you came to see.

What was his name, again?

Hat's off to the guy -

Never saw that one before.

He was one guy who really knew how to go!
 
 
At that moment, in a sense, I suppose that that man was the freeest man in the entire Roman Empire.
 
What more could the Emperor do to him?
 
Feed him to the lions?
 
 
Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose . . .
 
 
And then - then it was all over.
 
________________________________________________
 
 
"Duas tantum rex anxius optat, panem et circenses."
 
"The people long anxiously for two things, bread and circuses."
 
Juvenal  
 
 
In ours, the most overfed and overentertained nation in the history of the earth, Juvenal's words ring as true as on the day that they were written.  
 
Words that have outlived the very language in which they were written.

Of course, there has been progress in human relations.
 
Instead of just bread, we have supermarkets with over 30,000 items - and growing.  

And growing.
 
And in place of one circus, we have many - over 60 channels worth.  

With a wide choice of professional spectator sport.

Or, if you prefer, a nightly ringside seat to a variety of military misadventures overseas.  All in our name.
 
 
Sometimes I almost long to return to the clarity of an earlier era.
 

Epaminondas

_____________________________________________________________________


Those who know how to win are much more numerous than those who know how to make proper use of their victories.

Polybius
History, book 10, 36
circa 200-118 B.C.

Offline RHPConsult

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2003, 05:49:34 PM »
Additional Historical Grace Note:

The "one" I remember most clearly was the "one" (hereinafter known as The Bird) administered by Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, then Governor of New York and candidate for nomination for President (1964) at the San Francisco Republican Convention.

During his address, he had been roundly booed  by an assemblage of Goldwater partisans, and so flipped them The Bird in a delicious moment of apolitical indignation, recorded in, of all places, Life Magazine.

For most of you young whippersnappers out there, Nelson Rockefeller, Barry Goldwater, and Life Magazine are history about as ancient as early Rome . . . or Greece!

 laugh.gif
« Last Edit: October 07, 2003, 05:50:50 PM by RHPConsult »

Offline sandbox

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2003, 03:57:30 AM »
Wondering who may have invented the universal word I thought it could have been a guy who lost his middle finger. Before long I wondered who invented the universal gesture? I feel closer to the idea that it was a woman’s silent expression. Then I thought that communication was difficult with one word and a silent expression so they began to draw. If you look closely you’ll see that the men have horns which probably has a connection to a term we use today. It may also explain why women invented the gesture. wink.gif
Of course it’s only speculation, and old newspapers are hard to read. biggrin.gif

Offline Highmac

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2003, 05:08:18 AM »
The epistle from Epaminondas (which I found fascinating) sent me searching for the origin of the UK's two-finger gesture (generally accepted to mean f*** off) and Google found this story of our deputy PM using the gesture the wrong way round to reporters "in all innocence" (Yeh, right!). The story includes the history of the gesture, going back to the Hundred Years War between England and France (my history is rusty but it would seem it lasted considerably longer than 100 years - some would say it's still going on...).
« Last Edit: October 08, 2003, 05:13:35 AM by Highmac »
Neil
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Offline Dreambird

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2003, 10:10:04 AM »
Groaner.gif

Well I can see where this thread is heading!! wink.gif

On the page Highmac links to, the picture with the caption: "I'm branching out... how's this one?" my ex calls that one "a bouquet....  doh.gif
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Offline krissel

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2003, 12:22:41 AM »
ohmy.gif

Geesh, in all my years I never knew that the reversed Victory sign was an insult. I know many hand gestures we commonly use are offensive in other cultures (like the OK symbol) but I didn't know about this one.

I think the reason we use the single digit is that most Americans are lazy.
Why use two when one will do.
Hmm, or maybe it's efficiency?

 wink.gif

My favorite is holding up three fingers and advising "Read between the lines".

 blush-anim-cl.gif
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 12:24:18 AM by krissel »


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Offline Highmac

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2003, 04:27:40 AM »
I have a recollection of a report of an American president (60s or 70s -  might have been Nixon) on a visit to Australia being similarly unknowing of the custom, common there too, and giving the wrong sort of peace sign to crowds lining the route has cavalcade was taking. Luckily Australians have a strong sense of humour (all the ones I've met anyway...).

Any Australians who can give better detail than my ageing memory?
PS: Generally, the obscene gesture is known in the UK as the V-sign, as against the "Peace sign"
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 04:47:47 AM by Highmac »
Neil
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Offline RHPConsult

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2003, 09:42:46 AM »
Hear Ye, hear ye!

Birds, Bouquets, Amputated Archers . . .

Amazing.

Come to TS and expand yer edgeycashun! notworthy.gif  clap.gif  biggrin.gif
« Last Edit: October 10, 2003, 09:45:54 AM by RHPConsult »

Offline kelly

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OT: What is it about Americans...
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2003, 10:01:20 AM »
Haven't followed all the links. smile.gif

I thought it began with the English Longbowmen.

But apparently not.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980904.html
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