Author Topic: OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?  (Read 2219 times)

Offline gunug

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 6710
  • TS Palindrome
    • View Profile
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« on: January 22, 2007, 07:59:38 AM »
QUOTE
The old adage that "no two snowflakes are alike" might not hold true, at least for smaller crystals, new research suggests.


This is because the smaller one's haven't had time to develope!  

This is from:
 http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200701...wflakesarealike

There is another nice website with snowflakes here:

http://www.snowcrystals.com/
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 08:02:41 AM by gunug »
"If there really is no beer in heaven then maybe at least the
computers will work all of the time!"

Offline Gregg

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 11748
    • View Profile
    • http://
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2007, 12:10:55 PM »
I never believed that all of them could be different.

It seems so mind boggling. snowglobe.gif
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline gunug

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 6710
  • TS Palindrome
    • View Profile
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2007, 12:19:51 PM »
If you were to take your samples during the annual presentation of Charlie Brown's Xmas you would probably only get 2-3 different shapes of "snowflake!"  smile.gif
"If there really is no beer in heaven then maybe at least the
computers will work all of the time!"

Offline ()

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1101
    • View Profile
    • http://
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2007, 02:04:11 PM »
is there really a point to it?

do people really sit around, pondering whether or not there are two snowflakes that are identicle?

glad I live in California.  ther snow melts to quicvkly for anyone to examine, and most people are more interested in skiing, than camparing one snowflake to another.

 Thinking.gif

but I suppose there will be some form of reason behind knowing if there two identicle snowflakes.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 02:04:46 PM by Nutterbutter »

Offline tacit

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
    • View Profile
    • http://www.xeromag.com/
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 02:43:31 PM »
I never believed that all of them could be different.

Considering that each individual snowflake is made of billions, or even tens of billions, of atoms, the fact that they are not identical is not all that surprising. There are so many different ways you can arrange 10,000,000,000 atoms that you could make the entire earth out of snowflakes and still never have any duplicates.

do people really sit around, pondering whether or not there are two snowflakes that are identicle?

Yes--because it has huge implications for physics, material science, and even things like electronics.

A water molecule is very simple, and contains only three atoms--one oxygen and two hydrogen. It forms crystals according to very simple rules--the hydrogens of each molecule want to be close to the oxygen of the neighboring molecules while at the same time being as far as possible away from the hydrogen of neighboring molecules.

That very, very simple rule has significant real-life consequences--it means that water crystals will always have six sides (that's how many water molecules can form together in a group before the hydrogens become too close to each other). But it ALSO means that there are literally trillions of ways to arrange those six-sided crystals.

Many, many things in the real world, from computer chips (which are made from crystals of extremely pure silicon) to the lasers in a DVD player (which are made from crystals that contain tiny "voids" in them just barely big enough for an electron to fit into--when an electron falls into one of the spaces in the crystal, it releases a photon of light, and that is how the laser works) rely on understanding the ways that materials operate when they form crystals, and rely on understanding how the same materials can form crystals with different shapes and different properties.

Water is one of the simplest of all molecules, and obeys incredibly simple rules for forming crystals, yet the way those rules work together, it's possible to form trillions of crystals with different shapes. This can give you insight into how difficult it can be to predict and control the crystalline structure of materials even when the rules that govern the crystals are very simple. Because so much modern technology relies on understanding and controlling the way crystals of very pure material form, and being able to predict and control the structure of the crystal right down to the level of individual atoms, the way snowflakes are made is very important to a great many people.
A whole lot about me: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Offline Gregg

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 11748
    • View Profile
    • http://
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 09:00:51 PM »
Well, I just want to keep 'em off my driveway! bump.gif
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline RNKIII

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
    • View Profile
    • http://
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 09:14:05 PM »
QUOTE(Gregg @ Jan 22 2007, 09:00 PM) [snapback]116721[/snapback]
Well, I just want to keep 'em off my driveway! bump.gif

 rant.gif You and me both!!! wink.gif

Bob K.   rnkiii
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to
use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2007, 05:12:59 PM »
QUOTE
Water is one of the simplest of all molecules, and obeys incredibly simple rules for forming crystals, yet the way those rules work together, it's possible to form trillions of crystals with different shapes...
And then, throw in the suspected catalyst for the flakes—dust particles—and you introduce all sorts of 'impurities' that can multiply the shapes. It's never been a problem for me to believe that we will probably never find any two identical flakes. Took me a while longer to believe that there may not be two identical flakes in the history of the Earth.

WARNING! Possibly non-politically correct, actually religious opinion follows! Read at your own risk! Responses (and even my membership) may be censored/deleted! Arguments are not allowed as I understand the forum rules.

But then, I believe the Creator who also made every discovered scientific rule ( and, obviously, those still to be discovered! ), also did it expressly to show who is really in control! smile.gif
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline Gregg

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 11748
    • View Profile
    • http://
OT: Is it possible for 2 snowflakes to be the same?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 08:33:48 PM »
You'll get no argument from me on that one.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.