Author Topic: Everyone in Minneapolis OK??  (Read 4673 times)

Offline sandbox

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Everyone in Minneapolis OK??
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 12:07:01 AM »
Kimmer, “structurally deficient” is a broad term that one would need to ask…. As compared to what?
A bridge built today? Sure it doesn’t meet today’s standards but it will still carry a load. Metallurgy has changed over the year as has structural designs. By the time they replace every bridge in America the inspection would find those new bridges “structurally deficient” as compared to the state of the art designs of the day.

It’s a slippery slope. On the one hand you depend on Civil or Structural engineers to inspect your bridges, then for the most part those inspectors were in diapers when the bridges were built and were educated to build differently. They may work for companies that would love a new bridge contract. wink.gif This is a larger problem than one would imagine. Wear and tear is obvious where stress is harder to measure without x-ray. Imagine x-raying the whole bridge, even just the probable stress points? Then imagine shutting the bridge down because you found something. Could you imagine the cost and outcry?

The advantage of letting it go until an accident occurs is that when it happens “emergency funding” kicks in and the State is off the hook. I know it sound crude but if a State is cutting budgets on inspections @ 250 thousand dollars, what do you think a 250 million dollar bridge would do to a State budget?  

The highway system belongs to the federal government, built under the justification in the 50’s 60’s of needing to transport military hardware in times of war, but the structures themselves belong to the States and they are responsible for the maintenance. Monies returned through highway funds are used for this task as well as auto fees and taxes. But the highway funds often come with unfunded mandates that increase the cost of poker where the funds fall far short of the need. The system is strangled in red tape and everything clinging to the system gets paid but the bridges and infrastructure itself.

This business is very corrupt and has been for many years. There was a study a few years back that claimed that half the monies collected for roads and bridges actually made it to the roads and bridges.

It is very unlikely that these type bridges will start to fall down unless work crews create the same conditions. Moving all the traffic to one side and adding enormous weight with a pavement layer, on an old bridge, is most likely not going to happen again.

Offline Highmac

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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2007, 02:44:50 AM »
Kimmer: This BBC News page, top item (at time of writing, 8.42am UK) is the news report seen over here and includes the CCTV footage you mentioned. Click on the "Watch>bridge collapsing". When the video window opens you may have to click on "Open in standalone player", but the first one plays OK on my G5.

We over here send our sympathy to all those affected.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 02:47:51 AM by Highmac »
Neil
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2007, 02:52:44 AM »
QUOTE(sandbox @ Aug 2 2007, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kimmer, “structurally deficient” is a broad term that one would need to ask…. As compared to what?

Can't answer that as I'm not an engineer. wink.gif  I just know I've always hated bridges and when I'd get stuck on one in rush hour - I would begin to panic. Sneakers is a good guy and does his best to get me over bridges ASAP and talks me through any hold ups. wink.gif

QUOTE
It’s a slippery slope...The system is strangled in red tape and everything clinging to the system gets paid but the bridges and infrastructure itself.

This business is very corrupt and has been for many years. There was a study a few years back that claimed that half the monies collected for roads and bridges actually made it to the roads and bridges.

Slippery indeed. Sadly, I think this redirection of funds is common and takes place in just about everything government is involved in. I'll shut up now.  taped.gif


QUOTE(Highmac @ Aug 3 2007, 12:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kimmer: This BBC News page, top item (at time of writing, 8.42am UK) is the news report seen over here and includes the CCTV footage you mentioned. Click on the "Watch>bridge collapsing". When the video window opens you may have to click on "Open in standalone player", but the first one plays OK on my G5.

Thanks. Amazing footage.

Offline krissel

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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 03:04:32 AM »
When I was a kid I used to get on the floor of the family car whenever we drove over a bridge that crossed the Raritan River (on the way to the NJ shore). Now there is a somewhat newer bridge which was recently expanded to 12 lanes but doesn't make it easier since it is much higher than the original...what's worse, now I can't get on the floor since I'm driving.  rolleyes.gif

And this report about the 20 worst bridges in the US is making me nervous again. Seems the worst bridge in the whole country is one that goes over that very section of Parkway just before the new bridge. eek2.gif

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/0...avily-traf.html
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 03:05:38 AM by krissel »


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Offline Highmac

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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2007, 05:22:19 AM »
I'd hesitated on making this post (at least this early) but since the topic seems to have moved to the safety of bridges in general, you may not know that Scotland owes its famous Forth Bridge, opened in 1890, to the collapse of a bridge across the Tay (some miles to the north) in a storm a few years before. It took with it a train, killing the 75 people aboard.

That event shook officials and the public so much that the Forth Bridge was, in short, vastly over-engineered ("robustly designed" in one report) to rebuild public confidence. It's still going strong - although its 45 acres of metal surface still need regular repainting - but the suspension-type road bridge built alongside just 40 years ago is in need of serious work because of corrosion in the supporting cables.
Website: http://www.forthbridges.org.uk/
Neil
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Offline Gregg

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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 07:36:52 AM »
QUOTE(kimmer @ Aug 2 2007, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gregg, my heart goes out to your son's house mate. That's a tough thing for a young man to face.


Indeed. Josh is a good kid. You may yet see him on the national news. He and a roommate rushed over in the direction of the loud bang to see what happened. Once there, they noticed fire trucks up on an adjacent bridge, unsure of the route to take to get down to the victims. Josh and his friend directed them down to the river. They asked Josh to talk to the young man they tried to save, and when they got back to him, they knew he was not going to live. They gave the victim a cell phone and told him he should call loved ones for a final goodbye. Then a firefighter began to pray with the young man, who died before the prayer was completed.

This morning, a local reporter said that officials have lowered the estimate of the number of people missing to 8, but that he was unable to confirm that number independently, and suspected that it could be revised yet again. 8 is certainly better than 20 or 30, but a victim in the hospital died last night. I haven't heard how many remain hospitalized, only that about 80 were injured in the collapse.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.