OT, Invisible Fence for our puppy

[jcarter]

We bought an invisible fence system for Lilly,
http://www.jcarter.net/lilly/beach-dog.html
and only did part of our property, about 1/2 an acre which included some woods as well as our lawns and garden areas.
We were a bit worried as she is only 3 months old, but the man who does the training came this morning and said she learned very very fast.
Its a bit scary, as they do, yes they do get a shock from the collar probes, but with the new system, they hear the warning beeps and see the flags and learn very quickly.
We experimented with having our little grandson cross the barrier, and Lilly did not follow him!
This is going to be interesting of how this progresses, how well the system works as she gets older and bolder.  And the possibility of chasing a squirrel.
But its a pleasure to not be holding onto a leash every moment you are outdoors, and we can play ball now!
Of course, she cannot be out unsupervised at any time, not ever, as we have coyotes here.  And there is a chance of her crossing and getting stuck outside, yes things can happen, these things are not 100%, no fence of any kind is.
And at night if she goes out, I opt to use the leash even tho the trainer said its not needed.  At night in winter I will use the leash anyway.

So this is a new experience for us, and its quite interesting how far technology is coming, though this system is simple.  
If anyone here has used such a system and has any tips or hints for us, I am interested in hearing.
Jane

[dboh]

I don't have a dog, but I have friends with dogs, and they're all pretty happy with their invisible fence systems. After a while, your puppy will learn where she can and cannot go. She won't need the shock to tell her, and she won't need the flags either; she'll just know. When she's a bit older, you'll be able to let her out at night to do her business without a problem.

[jcarter]

Thats what the PetStop guy said, we can take the flags down after we are sure of it.
And a friend who has a house in Maine, just took his flags with him and put them in the front yard, and the dog wouldnt cross!  There was no 'fence' at his vacation house, but the dog had no way of knowing that.  And my other friend forgets to put her dog's collar on, but she stays inside the boundaries anyway,
So looks like we bought the right system.
And when she gets full grown(we estimate about 60 or 70 pounds, as her parents were in that range), she would not be so endangered by one coyote.  But there are 3 coyotes who hang out together down by the swamp by the beach, so I dont think I would ever let her out alone at night. Though we do have good spotlights.
This all is so interesting, I didnt realize that puppies could catch on to something so quickly.  Just had her out in the yard playing ball.
Too cold to head to the beach today.  
Jane

[Gregg]

Yep. It really works. My parents had one put in several years ago. The dogs catch on in a hurry! :ouch:

[Frances144]

Personally, I don't agree with 'em.

My dogs want to be with me and learn where their boundaries are.

Sorry, but I think they are a quick-fix method as opposed to just working with the dog.

Fx

[Gregg]

QUOTE(Frances144 @ Dec 2 2007, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but I think they are a quick-fix method as opposed to just working with the dog.

You're probably correct. They work well for people who haven't the time and ability, or the money, to do that.

[jcarter]

None of our other dogs needed the IF, but they stayed with us constantly, we trained them, but they were rescue dogs and we got them at a year at least.  But a puppy wont do that, so you have several options, and with a 35 MPH(some people go 45 on it) road thru the woods from our house, we decided to try the IF. And it works so far. And we would never ever leave her out unattended.
 In a year or so, we will have Lilly trained to come and stay like our other dogs.  But you have to be sure, my brother's Golden, who we all thought stuck to us like glue, took off after a rabbit, and was killed by a car.  So expense is not an issue with us, we have to be sure for these first couple of years.  And if the fence didn't work for our dog, this company gives your money back within a certain time period.

These are the puppy options for our area.
1. Leash all the time until you are sure they wont take off across the road after a squirrel, or something like that.
2. Fence in your entire property, install gates, and bury the bottom of it.
3. Install an IF, like we did, and use it until the puppy grows up and learns to stay with her humans. Its usually a year or 2 with an active Lab.
So thats pretty much the way our neighbours did too, and theyve all been happy with them so far.
Its an interesting way of containing a dog, and we dont expect it to work forever, so we are working on her to stay by us all the time.  
She is an excitable puppy and at the PetCo store(puppy class) today, I had to carry her into the store as she was so excited to be there with her little canine friends.
Its been a learning experience for us, as we have never had a puppy in 42 years.
Jane

[dboh]

I also think it's different for those with dogs in the suburbs; those dogs can't roam very far, and the yard next door always looks so inviting…

[krissel]

This topic reminded me of the wires my folks had running just inside the post and rail fence to keep the horses from leaning over or on the fence. It was a very mild sting but something you noticed. The horses of course picked it up pretty quickly so it rarely had to be turned on since they didn't know if it was on or not.

But on weekends people would often stop their cars by the fence to "look at the horses" and reach over the fence to pet them or try to give them food. This was not a good idea cause they could give them something they shouldn't eat or possibly get bitten. So the juice was turned on occasionally and "Electric Fence" signs were posted. Naturally there was the person who didn't think signs applied to them and reached over anyway... Zap!

They would jump back with a surprised look on their face and slink away embarrassed.

I think the horses got a kick out of it as well.

[jcarter]

Thats neat, horses and dogs are smarter than some humans, even tho they cant read.

I had a friend when I was in high school, who had some sort of a high voltage(and low power) thingie hooked up to his car, which was a beautifully restored classic. He did this to keep people from putting their hands all over it, and if you touched it, you got a pretty good zap.  It was funny to sit in a restaurant and watch people ooh and ahhing it and then touch, and jump back!
Jane

[Paddy]

It's amazing what some idiots will try to feed a horse!

I've had several friends and neighbors with invisible fence systems, and they've all been very pleased with them. As Jane notes - they're not foolproof however. We had friends in Corvallis who had a part Samoyed, part Chow Chow, who was ENORMOUS (bigger than either of the parents) and had an incredibly thick coat. He didn't seem to mind getting zapped if wanderlust struck and one morning I looked out to find him rummaging in our compost pile - a good two blocks from home. They had the zap on maximum - he still didn't care.

The other dog I know of who regularly went through an IF was my sister's part-border collie. (Certainly the border collie part won in the personality dept.) This dog was clever - she figured out that if she hopped up on the outdoor tables and leapt OVER the chain link fence, that she was high enough not to get much of a zap from the IF either. When my sister moved the table and chairs away from the fence, she then took to running flat out at the IF and then leaping as high as she could to get over/through it at the front of the house where there was no chain link fence. She still got zapped, but didn't seem to care. My sister said that if she could talk, she'd swear that dog was saying "nyah, nyah" as she turned and stood there with a huge doggy grin on her face. She proved to be a bit of a handful in the house too however - she'd tear the place apart when my sister and her husband were at work. They found a family on an 80 acre farm that wanted to take her and she has been much happier ever since. My sister's other two dogs (both lab crosses) certainly saw the collie in action, but never tried to copy her.

Everyone else I know of with an IF has not had these problems. One of my son's friends, who lived on the corner of a quiet cul-de-sac and a very busy street had an IF and they put a collar on their cat as well. The only problem there was a couple of times Pete's friend made the mistake of carrying the cat too close to the IF. The cat certainly knew where it was - and Tom was rather painfully informed too, as the the cat flew out of his arms with all claws unsheathed.

Francis, I understand your opposition to these fences and certainly some people do use them to avoid having to walk or play with their dogs. But in much more suburban settings than you enjoy, with significant and often high speed traffic, it's more about the safety of the dog than the convenience of the owner - and allowing the dog to run and play without the restrictions imposed by a leash. Parks and large open areas that are safe for an unleashed dog can be few and far between - or not within easy walking distance, depending on the suburb/small town. In the city, on the other hand, most people simply walk their leashed dogs to the nearest park that has an off-leash dog area - or the dog simply never gets off the leash outside at all. Not great if you own a large dog that needs lots of exercise, needless to say.

[jcarter]

Yes, there are dogs who figure out everything right away. My sister-in-law wanted a Border Collie in the worst way, but when she saw the high energy level of them, she realized that even tho their yard is about 1/3 acre, it was not nearly enough.  You need a golf course for them. There is a farm about 8 miles from our house with a 60+ acre conservation area next to it, and thats where everybody local takes their border collies to play or work with the sheep. There is a 'watch Llama' there too. We will take Lilly there later, when she can deal with not chasing the sheep.

So hopefully Lilly will be contained by it for the time being, and we will of course be there with her in the yard, never out by herself.  The immediate area of our yard is pretty safe, but the 35 MPH road is thru the woods and is dangerous.  If it wasn't for that road, we would probably not need the fence.  But we wanted to cover all the possibilities.

Its too cold for the beach today, but she had her puppy Kindergarten class this morning, so is fast asleep in the livingroom now.
Jane

[Gregg]

QUOTE(jcarter @ Dec 4 2007, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats neat, horses and dogs are smarter than some humans, even tho they cant read.

Did you see the report about chimps passing a memory test that human adults failed on the news last night? Funny!

[jcarter]

Yes, my brother called me.

[Highmac]

Quite amazing! BBC News video on chimp champs on this page. "Video and Audio News" button in right-hand column. Hope it works for you... Real Player needed. Sometimes better if you "Launch in Standalone player".