RapidShare AG

[chriskleeman]

So, I recently downloaded Limewire trying to find a trial program to work on my website. I don't know if it's related to that, but tonight when I got home I found two e-mails from a Swiss company (at least on the surface) called RapidShare AG, and they had debited my PayPay account some $80 for "Premium File Hosting"

I've already begun the dispute to PayPal, but somehow, these guys got my PayPal information, and this is not something I authorized. I immediately went to my PayPal account to see if it had really posted, and it has.

Anyone know anything about this company?

TIA,

Chris K

[Highmac]

Hi Chris -

Did a Google UK search and got these results (hope the list comes up the same for you). Seems to be some sort of filesharing setup (something I've never used and don't really understand). But it seems the German authorities have been acting against them, according to some of these links.

HTH

[chriskleeman]

Thanks for the link and info Neil.

I went to their site last night, and I'm really not sure how this happened unless someone hacked into my PayPal account or something like that. I checked all my other accounts this morning and so far, everything is quiet, I'm just hoping this isn't the start of identity theft.

The confirmation I got from RapidShare was also in my primary e-mail account, so that's got me a bit worried as well. But, I should probably change it anyway, as it's been open on my website until Paddy brought the new site online.

I was actually able to speak with a real person at PayPal this morning to open up a dispute over this charge, my e-mail to their fraud department hadn't been returned by my first cup of coffee... so I got on it right away. They say it will take about 7 days to resolve it one way or the other.

Chris K

[Paddy]

Chris, it looks like someone hacked your Paypal account and used it to pay for a premium account at RapidShare AG. I'm wondering if somewhere along the line in the search for the trial version of Contribute, you somehow got a keylogger downloaded onto the PC.

Did you log into your Paypal account at any time while on the PC in the last few days?

Or it could be a coincidence - someone hacked into your Paypal account around the time you started looking for Contribute. As for the primary email address; if that's what Paypal has on file for you, any correspondence will go there. After all, the person who hacked into your Paypal account doesn't care where the PAYPAL confirmation goes - he no doubt used his own email addy with RapidShare AG.

Whatever you do, change the password you use on PayPal, and then change the email address attached to the account. Make sure that all other particulars, such as address etc. are correct.

And whatever you do, NEVER, ever leave any balance in a PayPal account - not only because this can be stolen, but because I've read a lot of horror stories about PayPal themselves causing misery. If at all possible, also attach a bank account to Paypal in which you keep an exceedingly low balance. Transfer money into it only when needed (and transfer money out immediately). Unfortunately, that last bit is hard to do these days - banks have a nasty tendency to charge ridiculous fees for low-balance accounts. Finding a "freebie" for this purpose can be difficult.

BTW - did the $80 get charged to your credit card or did it get taken out of your bank account? If Paypal don't cooperate and refund the money, and it did come from your CC, you can file a fraud complaint with your CC company. Paypal doesn't like this, but apparently they are the biggest cause of fraud complaints for CC companies. And from what I've read over the years, it's usually easier to get the money back via your CC company than via Paypal.

http://community.inkfrog.com/index.php?act...amp;topic=15150

[chriskleeman]

Paddy,

Nope, the last time I logged into my PayPal account was back in the middle of May.

While I was looking for files on Limewire on the PC, I didn't log into anywhere. I'm going to check Spybot and see if there were any changes, but I don't store any of that information anywhere on the PC.

So, I'm hoping this is a coincidence...

And good advice, I already changed the password and security, but I think I will also change the bank account to one I don't use very often, and switch it off of my checking account. And, I'll change the e-mail account too.

PayPal seemed reasonable this morning, they seem to think I'll get my money back in about a week of business days. We'll see...

I do have a credit card on file with PayPal, but it's not the primary funding source, if I use the credit card I always need to switch it.

So I'll go make some more changes to the account and get another clean e-mail address from my ISP.

Chris K

[Paddy]

I don't think you can use a credit card as a primary funding source with PayPal - it has to be a bank account. So was the money taken out of your bank account or did you have a balance in the PayPal account?

BTW - if I recall correctly, when you switch bank accounts used by PayPal it will take a few days - they go through a verification process involving depositing a very small amount of money to your account, which you then verify - and then they take it out again. (Same as when you initially registered, no doubt)

[chriskleeman]

It was a direct debit out of my bank (checking) account, as that is the primary funding source. If I recall correctly, you can fund PayPal with a credit card, but you are not eligible to have a "verified" account without the bank account as the primary funding source.  But like you, I would never leave a balance in PayPal. Too easy to have it stolen,  obviously!

The reason I have a "verified" account is primarily because it makes some eBay transactions much easier and smoother.

Yes, it will take a few days to change the accounts, as what you described is the method they use. But I'm thinking that your idea of not carrying much of a balance in different bank account makes a lot of sense when stuff like this can happen!

I did have to update my debit card info on eBay the other day, as my card expired this month, and I've got the new one with the same account # but with a different 3 digit security code from the old one. But that should have nothing to do with what just happened at PayPal, although the bank account is the same one that's verified by PayPal.

So, as I explained to my wife, you have to log onto PayPal before you can do anything, and I haven't logged on since I bought an item on eBay last month around the 15th of May. So it definitely looks like my account was hacked.

Chris K

[Mayo]

You can use a credit card at PayPal but they don't make it convenient to do so... The default is your bank account and if you don't keep the credit card info up to date PayPal doesn't bother to remind that you need to do so. To complete a transaction you have to select the credit card option and then the next screen asks if that is what you really want to do, offering some reasons why using your bank account is better (for Paypal).

When I had problems with an international transaction Paddy sent me some links detailing how PayPal will probably permanently suspend your PayPal account if you pay by credit card and then challenge the transaction via the credit card company.

Another thing to keep in mind is that buried deep inside the PayPal contract mumbo-jumbo is a provision whereby PayPal can lock-up all accounts associated with the bank account used for PayPal transactions.  What this means is that if you use a checking account at PayPal and you also have a savings or other accounts associated with the checking account (such as an IRA), PayPal can block your access to every account until the dispute is resolved. People who have initiated a payment dispute over a relatively inconsequential sum of money have found themselves unable to gain access to their savings and retirement accounts until the dispute was resolved.

For that reason I keep a minimal amount of money in a no-fee credit union account that is not connected in any way to other financial accounts that I maintain. It's the kind of account where there is no minimum deposit required because there are limited free services available with the account. I use that credit union account only for PayPal purposes and when I make a purchase using PayPal I always choose to use a credit card instead of the bank account.

[krissel]

I second what Mayo says about the credit card vs bank account. At present I only use a credit card for Paypal purchases. If there is a doubt about whether it will be accepted I buy elsewhere.

[Paddy]

I agree - I never use my bank account for Paypal, but that doesn't stop hackers from doing so, as they did with Chris' account - or the potential for Paypal to do nasty things with your primary bank account should a dispute arise.

Various horror stories:

http://www.paypalwarning.com/won_t_stop_chargeback

http://www.paypalwarning.com/i_curse_the_day_paypal

And this one probably takes the cake:

http://www.screw-paypal.com/about.html#horror

Gives one pause, doesn't it?

[krissel]

Yipes, that last one is a doozy.  Did you see the guy is trying to get seed money to have Michael Moore do a documentary on eBay and Paypal? I'm not a MM fan but would be interested in seeing such a film.

http://www.screw-paypal.com/film.html


Here is some more info on the eBay changes in buyer/seller feedback that was in the news recently.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/gripeline/arch...voices_a_2.html

http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/...1213981148.html

[chriskleeman]

Geez!!!

That last one in Paddy's post was unbelievable. And to think I'm sweating over $88.14

So just to update my little horror story: I had e-mailed RapidShare AG when I got the login information from them to protest the charge and demanded that they reverse it immediately. I didn't hear from them until I started the dispute with PayPal.

So this morning, there are two new e-mails, one from RapidShare and one from PayPal. RapidShare is apologizing for the charge, has completely refunded the payment, and oh, guess what, the e-mail from PayPal tells me the funds have a Temporary Hold on them for another 3-4 days until they "arrive from the bank".

Very interesting blog links Kris.

I only eBay very occasionally, but I've definitely have had my eyes opened wide with all this new information.

And I'm thinking it's definitely not worth being "Verified" by PayPal if things like this are likely to happen. What a pain in the rear end!

Thanks!

Chris K

 

[Paddy]

Given all the complaints and the fact that PayPal somehow manages to function much like a bank but with none of the regulations governing banks, perhaps it's time someone started to lobby elected representatives for some oversight. One wonders just how much other people's money they have tied up at any given moment.

Very glad to hear that you're getting your money back though, Chris!!

[chriskleeman]

So this morning I checked my bank account, and the transfer back from PayPal for my $88.14 has posted, so it should clear by tomorrow morning or this evening.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones!

Chris K