Author Topic: Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther  (Read 4539 times)

Offline Dreambird

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2003, 10:58:17 PM »
Well, get another chair... I'll help watch the dust settle too!

Figure it's all too much for me still... besides I've got a puter and OS now that works so well, I get to "use" the thing and "play" with the thing... instead of constant upgrades... I'm happy...  tongue.gif
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MamaMoose

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2003, 03:36:11 AM »
Well I have listened to all the experts on TS and I think I will hang in with my current system until  the first of the year. First of all I cannot use my old IDE drives (perhaps there will be an adaptor, but that may slow down data transfers.) Second, my old SDRAM is not usable so I will need to buy new RAM (NOT FROM APPLE!!!!). Third, I have been burned by being an early adaptor so i will wait 'til the dust settles. Fourth, my technical software is very expensive - FORTRAN compiler, ProSoft  curve fitting, and Maple - symbolic computer algebra and calculus so I will nbeed to see how the developers will optimize their software to take full advantage of the new architecture.

I do have a question - why is level 2 (3?) cache on the G5 much smaller than that of the G4?

MamaMoose

Offline Spartacus

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2003, 05:48:03 AM »
I ordered my PowerMac today.  thumbup.gif

Here's my config. I followed your recommendation, kelly: smile.gif

PowerMac G5
Dual 2 GHz
DVD/CD-RW
Radeon 9600 Pro

About 100 Euro less expensive than in the Apple Store.
Shipping date: August 2003 (they don't say when in August...  dry.gif)

I didn't order any additional RAM, because with 170 Euros it was too expensive in my eyes. I'll wait a little bit and hopefully, RAM will get cheaper in time.

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Offline Gary S

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2003, 08:28:21 AM »
After watching the little video on the G5, it seems it's a very suitable computer for Pixar studios, the  geneome project and other math intensive programs like 3-d apps. In the video, IBM states that they are working on future generations of the chip.

I'm looking forward to new buyers comments. I'm sure Spartacus will will give us the skinny on his when it arrives.
Gary S

Offline giantmike

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2003, 08:39:34 AM »
I gotta save up a few more pennies before I can order. But I hope to place an order before they start shipping. The only thing different about mine and Sparacus' is that mine will have the Radeon 9800 smile.gif

To answer Mammamoose's question: L2 and L3 Cache is a very fast type of memory that can store data close to the CPU (the data comes from what is stored in RAM). I won't go into how the data is put back and forth, but you should know that it was created to help things speed up a bit. In the new G5s, there is no L3 cache, and only a small ammount of L2 cache as you have noticed. This is because of the new 1Ghz frontside bus (on the 2GHZ model), and the very very fast RAM in the machine. The transfer of data tofrom the RAM to the CPU is already very fast on these busses, so the extra cache would only be a minimal performance gain. For the extra money it would be to put the cache on the chips, it's not worth it.

Hope that helps a little. Explaining how cache truely works would take pages of typing, something I don't have time for before work wink.gif

Offline Bill

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2003, 09:53:55 AM »
QUOTE
n the new G5s, there is no L3 cache, and only a small ammount of L2 cache as you have noticed. This is because of the new 1Ghz frontside bus (on the 2GHZ model), and the very very fast RAM in the machine. The transfer of data to from the RAM to the CPU is already very fast on these busses


I'm by no means an expert but -lightbulb flash-!
Seems to me thats a partially opened door to be slammed wide open for Apple/IBM development group. Rev C ... now has etc etc etc
Perhaps the 3gigs are becoming a reality by that road?
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MamaMoose

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2003, 10:43:33 PM »
giantmike,

Thanks for the explanation. It triggered my memory from the days when GE first proposed and then implemented virtual memoty (early 70's). It appears the frontside bus replaces L2 and L3 which are part of the old virtual memory memory hierarchy. The eased the weay in moving pages frfom the xtremely fast RAM back to much slower storage (tape, drum, disk, etc.).

Is that correct?

Mom da Moose

Offline giantmike

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2003, 05:03:23 PM »
Partially correct. The frontside bus has been here all along, moving data from the RAM to the CPU. L2 and L3 cache aren't/weren't replaced by the bus, but rather try to help the bus by storing specific information so the CPU can get to it faster. Basically, cache will store data recently used, and which may be used soon (temporal locality), as well as storing data close to other data recently used (spacial locality). The CPU first checks this cache for the instruction or data it wants, and if it doesn't find it, gets it from RAM. Depending on what kind of cache it is (write through, write back, x-way set associative, etc.) it will write the information it needs, so the CPU may access it later.

Virtual memory, on the other hand, has to do with paging. f you ever used the terminal to run the 'top' command, one of the statistics it shows is how many page ins and page outs have occured. What happens when you run a process (a program is made up of one or more processes), a copy of that process is created. This process, or the combination of all processes may be too large to fit in your physical memory. In that case, only the active parts of the processe(s) are kept in physical memory, and the rest of it is kept on the hard drive. When a process does something, it first looks to use the part of it in physical memory, as that is much faster than a hard drive. If it doesn't find it, it has to look for what it needs on the hard drive, bring a chuck (page) over to physical memory, and keeps on working.

The concept behind both cache and virtual memory is the same, to have the data the CPU may need stored in a fast location, so that the machine runs as fast as possible. Whenever the CPU can find what it needs in cache or a physical memory page, then everything works at top speed. But if the stuff it needs is not found, then a tremendous speed hit is taken. That's why it is good to have accurate cache, and as much RAM as possible.

Of course, this is only the basics behind both technologies, as explaining them would take many pages (deja vue? wink.gif ). But you should understand well enough. It's amazing what one learns in a single semester of Computer Architecture smile.gif

Offline Bill

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Hesitate to order new G5 + Panther
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2003, 11:09:26 PM »
Knew that all along GM ... just like I'm letting this mouse (could swear it has a sh*t-eating grin) get the better of my good nature by tip-toeing around my traps. NOT!
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