Author Topic: FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!  (Read 1523 times)

Offline gunug

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http://consumerist.com/2012/05/faa-scolds-...ng-takeoff.html

The recently well-filmed bird/plane collision has resulted in a two year penalty for the person who filmed it on his iPad:

QUOTE
Your failure to comply with flight attendant instructions during a critical phase of flight and an aircraft emergency could have affected the safe outcome of the flight... We have given consideration to all of the facts. In lieu of legal enforcement action (a civil penalty), we are issuing this letter which will be made a matter of record for a period of two years, after which, the record will be expunged.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 09:15:45 PM by gunug »
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 09:43:28 PM »
And the question is? dntknw.gif

While there are on-going studies to determine the effects of these devices on various electronic systems on aircraft, the current law states that they must be turned off (or perhaps Airplane Mode on the iPhone). The cabin crew rarely has time to determine what mode a particular device is in during the takeoff or landing phase of the flight (generally below 10 thousand feet, MSL). So, when the cabin crew tells you to turn off your device, they are not inviting you to debate the law. It is not a "friendly request" or suggestion, it is a "lawful command."

The letter uses the phrase "during a critical phase of flight and an aircraft emergency." It may have simply been a copy and paste of some text in the regulations. The word "and" makes his behavior much worse.

If the birds in the video were the ones that caused the engine problem, it is virtually impossible for an emergency to have been recognized, declared to ATC and the cabin crew. Things just don't happen that fast. On the other hand, if the emergency had already been declared (both to the crew and the passengers), I would suggest banning this man from any airline for the two years, if not longer.
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Offline gunug

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 09:45:13 AM »
QUOTE
And the question is?

I don't really have a question; just another case of stupidity.  I think maybe electronics had ought to be in the hold and not in the hands!  I also can't imagine the flight attendant had the time to deal with this when they were lining up for an emergency landing!
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Offline daryl66

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 3 2012, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
they are not invitig you to debate the law. It is not a "friendly request" or suggestion, it is a "lawful command."


It is another example of the mindset of some of those considered "Generation X".  

Those laws that I do not agree with do not apply to me, only other people.

 GEEZE LOUISE

I say ban him from EVER getting on board of another commercial airplane.


Daryl wallbash.gif
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 11:02:20 AM »
Seems this gentleman has a similar opinion. "I don't think I'm above the law..." but if I can't use my device when I want then nobody else should be able to use them at all. rolleyes.gif Unfortunately, this "I want what I want and I want it now" attitude is what is used as an excuse for all sorts of rules in all sorts of places.
One individual doesn't want to follow the current rules.
Instead of explaining them or punishing that person, the 'authorities' decide to prevent even the opportunity of the rules being broken.


Determining the safety of electronic devices on an aircraft is not a simple matter. First, there are still aircraft being used that were built dozens of years before iPhones/Androids/laptops were even invented. There was little thought given to preventing dozens/hundreds of sources of electromagnetic signals from entering the navigation systems built back then. Secondly, even more systems on aircraft are controlled and monitored electronically. External noise injection is now even more of a concern.

And the tolerances for interference causing erroneous operation are much smaller when the device is an aircraft that can affect hundreds of people, even if t has only a crew of two onboard. How many times have we heard of a computer program having a 'bug' that caused some kind of problem? That would not even make the nightly news! Most commercial apps even have a staff of lawyers write a End User License Agreement. Most EULAs say the user (note that you are not even called the purchaser or owner) agrees that the app is to be used "as is" with no financial or data loss responsibilities attributable to the developer(s). Can you imaging that kind of attitude by an airline? How would you like to see a EULA on the back of your ticket saying that your arrival at destination (safely or not) is not the responsibility of the carrier?! laughhard.gif

In effect, the FAA has created a "EULA" for all aircrew (private or commercial), airlines and aircraft makers. In order to sell a plane, load it (with anything, even a 'friend') and fly it (whether for profitr or not), all these entities have agreed to follow all the applicable rules and conditions. One of the only things larger than that "EULA" is the US Tax Code!. eek2.gif And I'm not positive about that! rolleyes.gif
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Offline tacit

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 05:40:56 PM »
Actually, I disagree. I believe that mindless compliance with wrong, pointless, or meaningless laws is not a benefit. In fact, I believe that as citizens, it is our duty not to comply with laws which infringe upon us for no reason; most of the great men and women of American history, from Rosa Parks to Martin Luther King, from Thomas Jefferson to Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, are heroes BECAUSE they refused to comply with meaningless or wrong laws.

The idea that an iPad or a cell phone can take down an airplane is laughable. It is pure fantasy; in this realm of reality, it simply can't happen. It's as absurd as saying that drinking a carbonated beverage can cause a plane to crash. It is only people's ignorance of electronics and physics that makes it sound plausible.

To live under a government that can punish people who refuse to comply with such a law is as ridiculous as living under a government that would punish people for not leaving teeth under the pillow for the Tooth Fairy to collect.

A sane government makes laws that are in accordance with the laws of physics. There is no virtue in mindless compliance with all laws, good or bad, reasonable or unreasonable.
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Offline Highmac

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 01:31:44 AM »
I can see this thread heading for serious turbulence, so an admin request:

Please, posters, just pause and reread your offering before hitting "Send" wink.gif
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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FAA puts man on probation for video of bird/plane collision!
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 11:18:39 AM »
Without any disrespect to anyone, TS member or not, I think I would rather leave the assurance that new device usage will have no negative effects on all aircraft up to the FAA rather than my own, individual desires. One must remember that accepting transportation on a ship/aircraft/even a taxi requires accepting the rules and regulations of that apply to that vehicle and its 'driver.' No matter how much we might need to be somewhere at a specific time, we do not have the authority to force the driver to break any regulations in order to get us there at that time.

The authority of the Captain (and by delegation, the crew) derives from similar 'rules of the sea' applying to a Captain of a ship outside normal national waters. No matter how much we are inconvenienced by the temporary use of some device while traveling by air, we have agreed to abide by the regulations governing that mode of transportation. Failing to do so places us under the possibility of sanctions accorded by the court.

There is probably no problem with an iPad and even an iPhone with any modern aircraft. In fact, several airlines are using them in place of paper navigation charts. These uses are, however, being done in strictly controlled environments: specific types of aircraft with specific types of devices, loaded with specific apps and maintained to specific standards. I have no doubt there are also devices monitoring the performance of multiple aircraft systems during these uses. The most modern aircraft use fewer and fewer mechanical controls. They are becoming flying computers. The last thing anyone (terrorists excluded, of course) wants, is for those computers and their communications to be disrupted. These uses of an iPad are certainly encouraging and can even enhance safety.

Using an iPhone is also, probably OK, also. It is not as useful, of course, with its rather small screen. laugh.gif Regulations for air transportation are not decided by "probably OK." wink.gif Nor do I think any of us would agree to fly with a pilot who is "probably trained." Or on an aircraft that is "probably safe." Or that it "probably has enough fuel to reach the destination plus any required alternate(s) plus another 45 minutes."

There are thousands of devices, hundreds of aircraft of various ages with dozens of combinations of hardware. It is no small task to test and verify all those combinations. If the task(s) needing the use of these devices is so important that you are willing to endanger your own life (texting while driving, for example) that is one thing. Deciding to endanger the lives of others, is not. And that's not just my opinion, it is the law. If you don't agree with the law, you have at least two choices. Obey it or seek its change while either obeying it or by not participating in the areas where it is applicable. Taking the law into your own hands has not been an acceptable solution since we started electing/appointing/hiring policemen/soldiers. wink.gif

The subtitle of this thread is somewhat missing the point; disregarding the lawful commands of the Commander of a ship or aircraft or her authorized crew, is not just "bad," it is against the law of the land/sea.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 03:18:23 PM by Highmac »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes: