Author Topic: SCSI v ATA hard drives (Read 4058 times)

sandbox · « **on:** April 28, 2003, 11:30:00 PM »

Would anyone have any known issues concerning a G4 that has Scsi harddrives instead of ATA’s? Any dis/advantages running dual internal scsi’s?

kelly · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2003, 12:29:00 PM »

What G4? Why do you ask?

I wouldn't bother.

IDE Drives whether in RAID or not are so much easier and cheaper.

Speed gains, if any aren't worth it IMO.

The newest G4s already have an ATA/100 Bus.

Older G4s can get an ATA/133 Card, RAID or not.

It's good to get away from SCSI Voodoo.

There's also Firewire to consider.

http://www.barefeats.com/speedtest2.html#disk

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE.html#raid

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/scsi_.html#raid

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answers...30,3436,00.html

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/answers...2335122,00.html

sandbox · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2003, 01:37:00 PM »

Thanks Kelly, I was looking at a used dual G4 that had a factory SCSI and an additional internal cheetah 10, and a additional SCSI PCI card, I thought it was interesting enough to check into it further. I have an old seagate 9 and a new F/W 40gig ext.. I’m using a G3 with a A/V card for a video surveillance system. My thinking was that I could utilize the new SCSI in older systems, or that there might be an advantage in having them? There are plenty of G3’s out there, and the video systems I’m building seem to do well so far, a quad screen multiplexer, with 4 Sony high rez cameras.

I’m building this one for myself, and my office neighbors have inquired.
It’s one way to get them into Mac’s

I would like to plug this video system into Powerbooks eventually, I’m working on a way to get it into the PB 5300. Low power use, small footprint, portable, cheap, fun!!

Most, if not all surveillance systems are geared to Wintel, I wanted an option, and building it seemed to be to only one I had, besides, I get to use some of this equipment I’ve collected through the years.

tacit · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2003, 01:52:00 PM »

The top advantage to SCSI is speed.Large server farms and busy Web servers almost always use SCSI RAID arrays, because it's the fastest hard disk storage out there. The fastest SCSI raid is *significantly* faster than the fastest IDE RAID.

That being said, for most consumer applicatios SCSI offers fairly limited benefits. One SCSI port can have up to 7 hard drives (whereas the limit with IDE is 2), and you can connect devices like scanners to SCSI ports, but with FireWire and USB theer is often little need to do so for most people.

I like SCSI; I work with SCSI RAID arrays and other SCSI devices. But my primary work machine does not have a SCSI card in it. SCSI hard drives are considerably more expensive than IDE drives of the same size, so unless you really need that extra speed, SCSI drives aren't worth the investment.

kelly · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2003, 02:02:00 PM »

Me. I wouldn't bother with that SCSI Box.

No need, just to use some old SCSI Hard Drives IMO.

Found this.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/8481

http://www.securityspy.com/

zodraz · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2003, 02:16:00 PM »

With the advent of USB and FireWire, SCSI has been pretty much been relagated to hard drives. So the old advantage of conecting CD Burners, Scanners etc, has disappeared. Unless you've got "legacy" peripherals.

You can run 7 drives off one bus, ATA allows only two (per bus). Properly configured you'll have no degradation of speed with multiple drives.

ATA drives are super cheap in comparison to SCSI drives.

Be careful with old SCSI drives! The Mac has had 3 generations of SCSI, which is backwards compatible, BUT requires adapter plugs. Also an older generation SCSI drive will run no faster on a newer (faster) bus (card).

SCSI is still the "Cadillac" of file servers (except the Mac). But these are multi-drive RAID systems with hardware diagnostics and what-not.

FYI, I bought an IBM UltraStar 20GB SCSI drive from ebay for $11.00. It works great! So you can see the savings of using those old SCSI drives is minimal.

sandbox · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2003, 04:31:00 AM »

Oh ya kelly I have security spy, it's a cool program with a lot of buttons a knobs. The one thing it lacks is web server capability, but they say it's coming? They have q 30 trial thingy for anyone wanting to have some fun! I don't know how to get Quick time to see the cameras, even 1 for that matter, or know of any other software that would capture the video off the AV Personality Card, do you?

What I meant by lack of Mac systems is, you can't find a ready to use system off the shelf, at least I couldn't. I have this system piped to a Mac and a TV in another room set on Video 2, so I can flip it from TV or DVD to spycam. That's as far as I've gotten with it, it will be saving files to a firewire HD as soon as I get a round2it.

Bill · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2003, 10:01:00 AM »

Interesting on-going project you have there SB.

All I have is a off the self B/W monitor with two cameras from costco at home here.

Had a slightly better set up but it bit the dust on too many replacement parts. Wasn't worth fixing.

This rack one I have from costco I picked up years ago still works and does what I want.
Basic seeing who's at the gate and what's going on in the back.
The cameras have a built in mic but the draw back is they're indoor use only. I've them mounted in pointed towards out. So if someone at the gate yells "open open" it's a wash.
They probably make accessories (if they're still around) but nah.

sandbox · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2003, 01:03:00 PM »

Hey Bill, if you have A/V capability with your Mac you could plug a camera into it and test the Security Spy Software. It has a bunch of options,
http://www.bensoftware.com/ss/manual/index....html#settingup

I bought these cameras
http://www.ktncusa.com/

SONY 1/4"Super ex-view HAD Chip With lens
LOW Light 0.01 LUX B/W 12 volt. (480 lines of resolution)
The 1/4 Sony was used in space watching, they work great in the dark.

What I would like to figure out is, if I can use other software like Quicktime, to capture video from the AV card.

kelly · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2003, 05:22:00 PM »

Look into this SB.

http://www.macintoshdigitalhub.com/reviews/eyetv/

http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/index.html

I'd say just hook this to your cameras and then to a large IDE Hard Drive.

650 MBs an hour.

Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2003, 07:22:00 PM »

Doubt if my cameras are even half as sharp as yours SB.
The whole set (monitor,camera [singular. Bought the extra later],cable etc cost I think about $200 way back when.
Probably have much better ones at any local five & dime these days.

The camera connectors on the line are the same configuration as a telco only half way between the size of standard phone and ethernet. The wiring/crimping are their own design also. Ports the same. It's the old scam ... -ya gotta buy from us- jive.

I've a flood light set up by timer that points towards the gate at night. Without it the screen would be black city.
If need be I can fire up my quarts lighting system from a switch inside that lights up the whole property like a ball park.

No where close to a {I spy} type set up but it works for me. Actually when my 10lb dog does her impression of a guard dog works the best. She lets me know when a strange leaf come floating by. Won't even get into the false alarms at all hours! Kinda learned her different type growls when she gets in the serious mode though.

At one time I had a speaker hung in a tree next to the gate which I could fire up a mic inside and shout whatever. Took it down. Had a problem with (now moved) drug peddling neighbor when I cranked it up full blast and shouted at him once when he was at the gate. Don't ask what I shouted.

sandbox · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2003, 12:59:00 AM »

Well that’s interesting Kelly, I’d like to see it in action. I’m a bit weary of USB video stuff, from most accounts it’s slow. This rig I have now to the AV card is faster than the USB web cam, with higher quality at longer cable lengths. From what I’ve recently learned USB1 is barely making it in the video world, and Firewire looses it’s usefulness in longer cable lengths, requiring boosters along the way. One of my cameras is attached to a cable that is 100ft long, after it snakes through the attic and up through the walls.
Another advantage to the AV attachment is the cable can be any two line type. I had a 700 foot spool of TV coax cable with support wire (like the kind that comes into your house) that I ran from the North Dormer, across to an Oak Tree at about 24 ft. high, (looks like a cable installation) and is Bird Proof, a must around here. This little project has given me some insight into some of the complication that can arise, but I’m sure there’s something I’m missing. Oh ya, I was missing something alright, Carpenter Ants from the oak tree walking across the line into my attic. They don’t like axle grease so I fix that in short order.

Earlier I may have mentioned that I hadn’t used the video portion of this AV card (with anything other than this project, and I was still wondering if Apple ever had software to utilize the video card ? For example, if a guy was to plug a Camcorder into his Mac, wouldn’t there be something in the Monitor control Panel that recognized that ? Or somewhere? I’ve tried Quicktime and didn’t see the camera, if I plug a camcorder into it I didn’t see it either, what was Apple using to capture the video on the AV cards in 1998? Is it some software that was in OS 8.1 or OS 8.6? that 9.1 or 9.2 doesn’t have?

kelly · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2003, 08:31:00 AM »

Sandbox. I don't know that's what you need.

That's why I said to look at it.

It's a Tivo kind of thing as far as I can tell.

Don't have a handle on all you're trying to do.

But if a PC can do it, maybe try that route.

They have their uses. For me it's Games.

Or maybe not a computer solution at all.

Maybe you should just be using a VCR and TV?

People used to use the Apple Video Player with the AV Inputs.

I toyed with it on my Performa 6320.

Lorraine uses it on her Beige.

Not really up to what you propose though.

Doesn't seem to work well with OS 9.x .

Now Apple wants you to use iMovie.

sandbox · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2003, 11:32:00 PM »

Hey Bill, a lot of video stuff comes with BNC ends, look like locking RCA’s, you can buy adaptors.
http://www.svideotorca.com/products.html

http://store1.yimg.com/I/videoware_1737_2572627

Thanks Kelly, I have it working with S-Spy, I was just curious to see if something like “Video Player” would see the camera, and it didn’t when first I tried , but now, with Quicktime 6 reloaded, it does? Missing Plug-in or something..... I guess?

I like Securespy, it’s something I acquired before the cameras and when it finally gets it’s webcasting together it will be a well rounded application. I will be able to access it from the cell phone.

I passed on the SCSI G4 although the speed and bootability (v) Firewire) caught my eye. Scsi will work with my PB5300, oh yes, I want to use it to eventually do this security task. I can connect an APC backup to a powerbook and camera (low voltage) and get hours of operation on battery power if needed. I haven’t worked out all the kinks just yet, and this is just a hobby project so I do it in my free time.

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Author Topic: SCSI v ATA hard drives (Read 4058 times)