OT: Good car for Wisconsin in the Winter?

[krissel]

sandbox wrote:

QUOTE

...the link is to a gov spec site avoiding the company lean.

You don't really think the government is doing all those tests do you?

QUOTE

How are fuel economy estimates obtained?

EPA fuel economy estimates are obtained from laboratory tests conducted by manufacturers according to federal regulations. EPA re-tests about 10% of vehicle models to confirm manufacturer's results.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml

QUOTE

Your MPG Will Vary

Your vehicle's fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA's fuel economy rating.

Fuel economy is not a fixed number, it varies based on

    * Where you drive
    * How your drive
    * Many other factors

The EPA ratings estimate the MPG a "typical" driver should get under "typical" city and highway conditions. However, most drivers and driving environments aren't typical, and the factors that affect fuel economy can vary significantly:

    * Driver Behavior & Driving Conditions
    * Vehicle Condition & Maintenance
    * Variations in Fuels
    * Inherent Variations in Vehicles
    * Engine Break-In

So, the EPA rating is a useful tool for comparing vehicles when car buying, but it may not accurately predict the average MPG you will get.

E,  when you read about complaints it's important to find out what they are and more important what has been done to address them. MYCARSTATS is the best place to read about all models complaints, service bulletins and recalls. They are very up to date and have all official info on virtually any car.
I combed that site for a couple months tracking down problems that were ignored by some manufacturers claiming there wasn't anything wrong. I knew there were reports of alternator problems with the early Muranos and I waited to see what they were going to do. Once they had a recall I felt they were being honest about addressing the issue even though it didn't affect my year. I also read about some people who had road debris hit the gas tank and cause a leak. That scared me but Nissan ordered a recall to install protectors and I got mine done right away. On the other hand, Lexus has been very slow to admit transmission, headlight and brake booster problems which are mentioned quite frequently.

You asked about noise and I am a noise freak as well. I can't stand the smallest rattle, tick, or anything in my car. I nearly went crazy one day when I heard a scratching noise until I realized it was from a CD  playing that I had recorded from an old vinyl album.
The engine is very quiet and the CVT transmission is smooth with no shift shock. Power is not compromised as some would have you believe. However if you have the windows down and are on the interstate there is WIND noise. That is one thing that disappointed me about the car at first,  but I have found a combination of open windows that make it reasonable.  With the windows up there is no problem.
So that may be a consideration depending on your driving habits.

As to safety/crash/rollover, the Murano got 4 stars frontal, 4 rollover, and 5 for side impact.

Here are places to check other cars:
http://www.safercar.gov/

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

http://www.safercar.gov/pages/ESC-EquippedVehicles-2006.html

It uses REGULAR gas, not Premium. Why some articles say it requires Premium is beyond me, maybe they have a link to the oil companies. My manual even states regular as the recommended octane.

Obviously I am happy with my car but the larger Rav4 and the new Mazda CX-7 would have been serious contenders had they been available when I was looking. Yes, they are first year models and are a slight risk in that sense but my previous two cars were first year models ('67 Camaro, '86 Celica) and I had each for 19 years with few repairs.

Probably the one thing that I think of nearly every time I'm in my car is the difference in height between this and previous vehicles. For once I can see at intersections and in traffic. And now I feel paranoid when I'm in others' cars, even my folks' Volvos.    

Take time to go over all aspects of the vehicles you are considering.
If cargo room is important bring a tape measure. Have someone who is large sit in the rear seat if you are going to carry passengers.
Although I wouldn't trade my Murano for any of the others I was looking at, there are a few things I wish were different. The rear visiblity is not great, although the new models have the backup camera standard.  
Also, I'm 5'7" but a smaller person might have trouble closing the rear lift gate as it is heavy and not powered.

Choice of car is a very personal thing, like chosing a partner.

Just be as sure as you can before you commit.  

[jcarter]

One of our soninlaws had a nice Jaguar, it ran very well, was nice looking, but oh my goodness, were the repair costs huge.  There was only one garage who worked on them in our area, who seemed to know what they were doing.  But even they had some problems with workmanship and quality of repairs.  So my soninlaw did some of the work himself like brakes and regular repairs, but found that even the parts were very overpriced.
Jaguars are very nice, if you can put up with expensive maintenance.
Jane

[sandbox]

QUOTE

Question - anyone have any thoughts on quiet cars?

Buick, in the reasonable price range should give you a quiet cruise. Very well received!!
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/buick/rend...s_consumer.html

Kris, I think Consumer Reports have the same results using independant testing. I'm out of time so I'm sort on links.

[Gregg]

QUOTE(RHPConsult @ Jul 18 2006, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand, each of the 3 recognized credit reporting agencies now are required by the FTC to provide you one of their reports on you (her) annually (so, presumably corrections of errors can be made), but that to get "their" score you have to pay a small fee. I think that's the way it works.

That's the way it worked for me recently. I didn't pay the fee, so I didn't get a credit score. What I got was enough to determine that I won't be in one of those funny identity theft commercials any time soon. Darn!  

[Gary S]

QUOTE

I would just buy whatever car you like and be sure to have good tires. I have lived in Wisconsin my whole life. Driving successfully in the snow is more a function of the driver than the car. Just remember to drive slower. You shouldn't be having to slow down a lot at the the curves if you aren't going too fast in the first place.

I have to agree with swhitset.


Good tires and drive carefully. Wisconsin winters aren't that bad.  

Getting through deep snow is an art.........you turn around and go the other way.

[sandbox]

Hey E, what was your conclusion?

[gunug]

I only wish it was winter again!

[Epaminondas]

Sandbox,


Funny you should ask.   ;-)


Milady has test driven several cars and there are a few more she still needs to check out.

Me riding shotgun.  

Then after she drives it, I give it a whirl.

Currently she favours the four-wheel drive RAV4 but she wants to compare the RAV4 four cylinder to the the six cylinder.  Mostly for noise comparisons.


We tried the Subaru Outback - that is one of the few Subarus with stability control.  She was underwhelmed - nothing very specific.  She did mention engine noise.  I found the four cylinder to be underpowered for passing - it was like being on a sailboat - we do some travelling on rural roads and need to be able to pass slower cars.  Between the wind noise and road noise, the noise in the Subaru was of a different quality than the RAV4 - more highs in the Subaru (more wind noise) - but the overall noise level of the Outback was not that much different from the 4-cylinder RAV4.


Milady wouldn't even get into a Subaru Forrester - she is not interested in buying any vehicle that lacks stability control.

It looks like I taught her well.  :-)

(Plus she's been reading a lot of current car-buying material, too).


Oh - I was amused at the general manager and at the salesman at the Subaru dealership.

I first asked about stability control - the general manager denigrated it and denied that any Subarus have it (he is apparently in error).

The Subarus apparently have a relatively low center of gravity - the salesman was encouraging us to do 60 MPH on the 25 MPH exit ramp. We are relatively conservative drivers -  it was hard for me to push it to 45 on the highway exit curve, but I did it.  Hey – the Subaru hugs curves!

He was obviously pushing the strengths of the vehicle.  The amusing thing to us is that we do relatively little high-speed cornering, which is one of the Subaru's strongest points.  

It reminds me of friends who own Porshes - then find their cornering ability wasted in suburbia and on the highway. They have to go out and find winding country lanes to show you what their car can really do.

Bottom line - the Subaru's strengths and our needs do not match.

Our major need is not high-speed cornering, but is staying alive - which is one of Subarus' major weaknesses.


We have obtained the 2006 The Car Book (Gillis), The 2006 -2007 Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide and the 2006 Consumer Reports Used Car Buying Guide.  

All gifts from myself to Milady.  

She has been in a slack period, lately - she currently has time for this.

Plus we stumbled across the June 2006 Consumer Reports, which evaluates a bunch of the smaller 2006 SUVs - including the Toyota RAV4 and the Subaru Forrester.

I saw Milady perusing parts of the CU Used Car Buying Guide this morning.  Used cars, hmm?   She is considering her budget and her options - which car plus used vs. new.  All of which is good.

She has a starting salary figure and a budget, now.  The U.S. dollar is beginning to seem a lot more real to her.


We ran several possibilities by our automobile insurance agency and were not hit by any big surprises.

We both have requests out for the free credit bureau reports from all three credit bureaus - thanks for the guidance, y'all! - should be here within a week or so.

No time pressure from me - she can go for a 2006 on sale or wait for the 2007s in August, whichever she prefers.

But she probably better wait until she has some income, I suppose . . .


And she is getting some coaching from her sister - whose husband is buying her a 2006 Forrester "on sale" ("$2000 off") a the end of the 2006 season.

Her sister was interested in the safety issues raised but she doesn't make the decisions about which car she drives.

I tried raising the automobile safety issue with her husband once but he informed me that it was all just a bunch of bull - so that's that.

The above male-female dynamic is why I am giving Milady all the information I can give her about buying a car - and she can balance cost, safety, noise, reliability and style as she sees fit.

It will not be a car I bought for her.

It will be HER car.

I think she will have much more pride in ownership that way.


Other concerns now are job and moving and housing - I got her started on the car thing a little early to help distract her during the hurry-up-and-wait job interview process - and I figured she would then get overwhelmed by the other matters as they came along.

She is absorbing information like a sponge - her questions are good.

I'll let you know what car she ends up with - and a little bit more of our impressions of different cars and how she decided.


This is helping me to review the whole car-buying process for myself, as well.

You learn a lot when you are teaching someone else.


Regards,

Epaminondas

[gunug]

I don't know what the price and fuel economy differences are between the 4 and 6 cylinder RAV4's but I would've bought one myself, instead of a Highlander, if it had more trunk and backseat room!

[Gregg]

My son announced that he plans to do some car shopping this month. (His brother will be taking a car back to school before too long.) His major criteria is low cost. I think that limits him to Toyota's new Yaris. He had his eye on an Echo last year, but those have been replaced. What's a Yaris anyway?

[amaizen_aristotle]

Gregg (and others),

The Toyota Yaris is a small car based on one of Toyota's 'world cars' -- it is offered in various forms in many different markets.  This is common for automakers, for instance the Honda Fit is known as the Honda Jazz in many other markets.  There are a few new entries into this lower end, less expensive category.  My wife is going to be getting a car in the next few months, and she is going after a Honda Civic or a Honda Fit.  The Fit is a competitor of the Yaris, so that might make it of interest here.  For a useful comparison of some of the entries in this segment, check out the following link.

Car and Driver

[Gregg]

Thanks. My (rhetorical) question was about the name, rather than the car itself. I had forgotten about the new Honda Fit. That's a strange name to give a car....

what happened to your car?

oh, it threw a Fit...

[sandbox]

Thanks for the update E, your doing a very comprehensive study I see.

Balancing a 4 cylinder is no picnic but Toyota does a better job than most. A small 6 cylinder will smooth out the noise and vibrations but add weight and fuel to the mix.

One point: Weight. Being in and around cars most of my life and owning a body shop back in the 70's I can say with some experience that a heavier car is safer. If safety is the highest factor and your willing to pay for it in cash and mileage then you may want to look a little deeper into the metal.

Crash tests rarely reflect actual crash results, but if you know that your tested on side impact you add a post or beef up the one you have. If the head-on test is done the same way as last year no change is needed, but if they tweak the angle just a bit, your test results will be different.

Gregg

For a low cost car with the best warranty in the business Hyundai Accent is hard to beat. http://www.hyundaiusa.com/

Scion, http://www.scion.com/ a subsidiary of Toyota also makes inexpensive car, but they carry the TOY warranty that just doesn't compete with Korean companies like Hyundai or Kia.

Hey E, have you considered the Santa Fe? http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/santafe/santafe.aspx

[krissel]

QUOTE(Gregg @ Aug 2 2006, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a strange name to give a car....

There's been worse.  Like the Impact.    


Or the Chevy Nova for which they failed to change the name when they tried to sell it in Mexico.
 (In Spanish, No va = doesn't go)  


As to the Yaris:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006053000959

[Gregg]

Ya, I used to own a Nova. It went.

God is in the drive train?

SB, I cannot recommend a car with such lousy phonetics. He actually test drove an xA yesterday. I think he's leaning to that one as one of the most reliable in the low cost zone, in spite of it's poor "score" on noise and "the ride". Another contender might be the redesigned Kia Rio. It has no maintenance record - neither does the Honda Fit. (I think the Accent is a redesign this year too.) Not on the radar: the dreadful Chevy Aveo.