Clean Reinstall did not solve Mac OS 8.5 & 8.6 Problems

[MrsLop]

Hello Everyone,

I have been away for a long time due to more tumors and subsequent removals. iCab is working only because I had to turn off Virtual Memory or it will return type 1, or more frequently, type 2 errors. I am not sure which is worse, my memory or my Mac's.

Anyway, I have had many months of strange behavior occurring with my Mac and so I finally did a clean reinstall. This created many more problems with third party extensions being added and crashes during the actual reinstall.
I decided to do another clean reinstall.
Problem 1-However, I don't know where the clean reinstall option is with Mac OS 8.6 Update.

Problem 2- Does anyone know if I can open up the Power Macintosh 4400/200 and replace the battery myself?
I read the 5th Edition of Mac Secrets which included GURU, I could not find out if I could do it myself. I did find the battery information:
PRAM Battery: 4.5V alkaline (Rayovac 840)
Problem 3- What are the probable causes of Memory problems on my Mac *(specs given below)

Am I right in assuming that if I have tried everything else that it could be that the battery is causing anomalies to my Mac?

I have had many type 1 and type 2 and type 41 (Finder) and a few type 10 errors since doing the reinstalls.

If my install was not a clean reinstall of the 8.6 Update, could this be what is still causing the problems?

*PowerPC 603ev running at 200 MHz
Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)Driver version: 3.1.3f1
Mac OS Partitions 1
Vendor: WDC
Revision number: 21.10N21
Product ID: AC34300L
Serial number: WD-WT4733108814
Unformatted size: 4GB
CD-ROM drive
Vendor: MATSHITA
Product ID: CD-ROM CR-583
Ethernet card
Card type: Not available
Card model: Not available
Card revision: 37
Card vendor ID: 11AD

If anyone has any answers to my problems, I would be most appreciative of any replies.
Thanks and God Bless,
MrsLop

[george]

Hi,
sorry that I cannot supply the answer to your problem but let me be the first to wish you a  very warm welcome back on the TS board.
I for one have missed you and hope that you will enjoy better health in the future.
George

[MrsLop]

Hallo george,

It has been quite a challenge, very tiring doing all this Mac related installation and such, but I am happy to be back on the board and posting.

Frankly, I wasn't sure of the reception I would receive after being away so long.

Thank you for your continued support and good wishes. I need a lot of prayers.

God Bless,
MrsLop  (Myrna)

[Gregg]

Myrna, I think you'll have to do the clean install from the Mac OS 8.5 disk, and then apply the Mac OS 8.6 Update. The Update file probably does not have a clean install option, because it contains only enough "code" to update 8.5, not to reinstall the OS. I'm sure you'll find the option in the full 8.5 installer.

[DaveF]

Myrna,

http://www.lowendmac.com/ppc/4400.shtml

"The 4400 was Apple's only computer designed around a modified Tanzania motherboard. The 4400 and other Tanzania-based clones will not boot with a dead PRAM battery. Try replacing the battery before attempting to replace the power supply on a "dead" 4400."

http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/06/0515.html

"On the other hand, if you have a slower PowerPC Mac, I think OS 9.2.2 is still your optimum operating system choice - although in the case of 601 and 603 PowerPC Macs up to, say, 166 MHz, you're probably better off running Mac OS 8.6 or even OS 8.1."

From the first quote, your PRAM battery is not dead if the computer boots.  More knowledgeable folks can advise on the general wisdom of replacing the PRAM battery.

From the second quote, a 603 machine is "probably better running Mac OS 8.6 or even OS 8.1".  I do not have 8.6, but if you do not have a full install CD, I still have full 8.0 and 8.1 versions that I'll send to you if that would be useful. I also have a full 9.0 should you like to try that version.

Dave

[MrsLop]

My Dear Fellow TS'ers,
I am having trouble staying online. I am not ignoring your posts.
after doing still another clean reinstall, the system began reacting wildly. It ws my fault, but the list given me of the problems after running Disk First Aid, was chilling:

Keys out of order 4,382,Test done  Problems were found, but Disk First Aid could not fix them., Problem  Mac OS Standard Volume Structure, Problem  Overlapped extent allocation, 2.2,  Problem  Volume Bit Map needs minor reair  4,7,  Repairing the Disk,  Problem  Internal files overlap - then, Disk First Aid Froze.

Well, I was not a happy camper.  I decided to try to do a clean reinstall of Mac OS 8.5, as gregg suggested.  I suspect that ignoring the Mac OS Set-up Assistant and Internet Assistant from the previous clean reinstall were at the root of my problems in trying to connect to the internet. I compounded the problems with trying to drag inappropriate items to the new folder.

I ran the clean reinstall, reinstalled some, but not all of my third party extensions. I then ran the update Mac OS 8.6.  I had all kinds of problems this morning with errors of type 1, type 2, type 3, type 41 (Finder).  I decided that I should trash the Pref's for Finder and then subsequently, Memory. restarted and rebuilt the Desktop.  I continued to have some balky problems with Sherlock and with Mac OS Help. I trashed those prefs as well.


To make matters worse, I cannot seem to complete my replies to you as my iCab 2.9.9 version acts weird onTS.
God Bless,
MrsLop  (myrna)

I can still read posts so if anyone ahs any solutions pPlease! Let me know what you think it is.
All in all, it's been grueling work with many 21 hour days working on this.  The clock is ticking and I will never have that time back.  It led me to the question, how high is the price to me, of trying to do all of this....?  I need rest and lots of it! I really need to get my life back.

[Mayo]

Not to be flip, but OS X is the real answer to your problems. Your Tale of Woe just reminds me of how much hassle it could be managing pre-OS X Macs...

[Jack W]

Mayo -

can you run OS X on a powerPC 603ev running @ 200MHz?

I think that's what Mrs. Lop said she had.

- Jack

[Gregg]

Myrna, do you have other utility programs, such as TechTool Pro or Disk Warrior? Many of the things you listed can be repaired by TTP.

[Mayo]

QUOTE

Can you run OS X on a powerPC 603ev running @ 200MHz?

You can run 10.3 and sometimes 10.4 on 603 Macs, but not at 200MHz; 500MHz is the cut-off point for 10.3. (10.5 will drop support for G3 Macs altogether...)

The reason I suggested OS X even though she has an old Mac is because she sounds like she is getting fed-up with wasting hours fiddling with her current Mac.  G3 and G4 Macs can be had used for very reasonable sums these days; it all comes down to how much do you value your time vs. what you can afford. Or there is always the Mac Mini option...  How many "21 hour days" does it take to add up to a used G4 Mac even if you figure your time at the minimum wage level?

[krissel]

From the XPostFacto site:

QUOTE

Mac OS X 10.3 (and later) does not work with a 603 or 604 CPU. (However, Mac OS X 10.2 can work with the 603 or 604, as of XPF 3.1).

HOWEVER, I would not recommend Mrs. Lop trying to install X on that old world machine. The hard drive is too small, she doesn't have enough RAM, and her video card and processor would make dealing with X very painful even if she were successful with the installation. It isn't easy installing X on these old machines and even more frustrating without the proper upgrades.

Buying a new Mac would be great if affordable to her. But in the meanwhile we can give it another try.

First of all, Mrs. Lop you need to run a repair utility on your drive. 'Keys out of order' must be fixed or you will never have a stable machine.

Try one more time booting to your install CD and running Disk first Aid. If it still says it can't fix the problem you will need something like Norton's Disk Doctor or TechToolPro or DiskWarrior. I'm sure one of us has an old copy of Norton's that can be sent to you if you can't get a hold of it.

Unless that is done, the only other alternative would be to erase the hard drive and reformat but you would lose everything on it. Do you have a backup drive to which you can copy your stuff? I don't remember.

[chriskleeman]

Hi Myrna,

I have a copy of Norton Utilities I could send you. It's a bootable disk, and when I used it regularly on OS 8.6 my 9600 was pretty stable. Just send me a private message and I'll get it out to you.

I agree, do not even think about installing any version of OSX on that machine, unless you upgrade it to a G4, which, can be it's own little nightmare.

Also, here's a link to OWC for Norton Systemworks:

Other World Computing

Sorry to hear you're having these troubles, but hang in there!

Chris K

[MrsLop]

My Dear TS family,

mayo:
It is not a case of being niggardly or picky or stubborn about upgrading to a new system, such as 10X, it is a matter of not having the financial wherewithal to do so. I have been unemployed for many years and no, I am not now, nor have I ever prevailed upon Social Security Disability during my ordeal with Cancer.  My husband and I live entirely on his employment as a teacher at a religious private school, which does not pay him anywhere near what public school teachers make.  Discretionary income? What's that? We celebrate when we can do take out at the local Chinese Food Restaurant. This year's pay increase of $ 10.00 a month added a whole $ 3.00 to our bottom line over last year. Having Cancer costs money and at times, lots of it. My husband's health plan doesn't cover much of the costs of many prescriptions in full. I am not whining or complaining, I am simply stating the facts.
We are happy with what we have. We hope to have enough to buy a modest system someday, perhaps in 2007. Right now however, I need to try to make what we have work.

kriss:
Thank you so much for answering, it's been such a long time. It is always a joy to hear from you!
I did another clean reinstall, moved my third party extensions, reinstalled the driver for my PCI driver, ran Disk First Aid and received no error messages. That said, I have a problem, whenever I quit iCab and attempt to open it again, I get a message saying that iCab can not be found. This happened with just about anything I clicked on. Subsequent retrys yield error messages, 2 or 3.  TechTool freezes when I attempt to open it and then I wind up doing a hard restart.
I am not quitting iCab until I can finish doing some internet tasks that have been waiting since last week.

DaveF:
Thank you for your kind offer of choice of Mac OS disks. But read on...what I really need is.....

Does anyone know what kind of Omega Zip drive would work on this old Mac? I plan on backing up all our files prior to wiping the disk and trying to start over with a complete installation. I still have chemobrain and I write everything down. I get frustrated with eBay choices because I don't know which one to try to bid on. Does anyone have an AppleWorks 6 CD? Do you know where I can get one from a place that you have dealt with and trust? I accidently deleted my copy when I did the first reinstall. I never had the CD because Bernie had it already loaded on my system. All of my husband's work was done using AppleWork's. I will also post these question as  stand alone topics on the board.

criss,
Thanks for your help, I have a Norton's but it really didn't help.

Jack,
Thank you for clarifying things to mayo.

Thank you all so much and God Bless,
Myrna  aka MrsLop

[Mayo]

QUOTE

It is not a case of being niggardly or picky or stubborn about upgrading to a new system

I neither said nor implied that. I made the point about "not being flip" in order to make it clear to folks that I was making a point about the improvement in the Mac OS and not commenting about your particular situation, of which I know nothing and which I consider to be none of my business.

[DaveF]

Myrna,
I discovered a Zip drive model Z100Plus, an installation CD (SCSI port Mac and Parallel port for PC) and three 100MB Zip disks that I'll be happy to send to you.

I also discovered an AppleWorks version 6.2.2 that works on OS 8.1 or later and OS X.  I bought it for my daughter who works for the Va Beach School System, but she ended up using MS Office.  I can also send this CD to you.

Send your address via email if you can use the ZIP drive and AppleWorks CD.

Good luck getting your system under control.

Dave