Author Topic: OT: RIP Cory Lidle  (Read 4914 times)

Offline Parker

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« on: October 14, 2006, 10:36:26 PM »
Just did a keyword search
and nothing came up
so i'm shocked nobody posted this yet

but for those who don't listen to or watch the news
Cory Lidle, a New York Yankees Pitcher who joined the team in summer of 2006 died on wednesday, October 11th, when he was flying and hit a building while his plane was in what seemed to be a stall (maybe jim can elaborate)

if the yankees only won... it would all be different :\
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Offline gunug

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2006, 05:17:11 AM »
The opinions that I heard locally (not mine so don't shoot the messenger) were that other than the fact that he was famous and it was NYC (the echo of 9/11) that this wouldn't be news; that people crash light planes all of the time.  I even heard this on NPR (user comment) and a local radio talk show as well as people that I work with.  I feel sad about it and I'm very happy no one else was hurt or killed and that it wasn't terrorism!  

I think what will happen is that there will be greater restrictions on private aviation in and around big cities.  It is a surprise that there already aren't such restrictions.  I worked at the Junction City, Kansas airport back in the late 1970's and had two planes crash while I was working.  Both were student and pilot and one just missed hitting an oil truck on a highway and the other crashed in the midst of houses.  The news about these plane crashes were that the students and teachers walked away from them and no one else was hurt.  People then in that town were amazed that planes were allowed to fly around town without restrictions.
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Offline Gregg

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2006, 03:37:26 PM »
Yep. The media is certainly New York and celebrity centric. That aside, there are restrictions in NYC that may have contributed to this tragedy. Small planes must fly at low altitudes so pilots do not have to rely on instruments (many don't know how). They cannot fly over Manhattan, just over the water. When flying up the East River, they must turn around and go back the way they came "in". This is where the plane went off course. It only takes a split second to hit something if you're not paying full attention under those circumstances. Any small distraction can lead to this result. I don't know these things first hand, but this is what was reported here. I think the full explanation is yet to be given officially.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline Xairbusdriver

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2006, 04:10:39 PM »
Gunug was prescient about his 'restrictions' thoughts. While helicopters are still exempt, fixed-wings craft must now be under ATC supervision, this will probably require radar and thus higher altitudes.

Finding definite causes for these kinds of events is usually very difficult. While there may be many "eye-witnesses", those are, in fact, the least reliable type, even if they are pilots! Since there are no 'black boxes' in small aircraft, it usually ends up as a detective search of the instruments and even the scratches found on internal engine parts.

If there was a stall, it could easily have occurred when either the student or the instructor realized the approaching collision. The 'natural' reaction is to increase the turn by increasing the bank angle and/or increasing the pull on the yoke ( increasing the elevator angle ). Unfortunately, doing this also increases the speed at which the wing starts to lose lift. If that speed ever gets above the actual flight speed, the aircraft simply quits flying as the pilot wants. This loss of control may be only a split second or eternity, it all depends on the pilot and his environs. The pilot can and does get training in stall recovery and avoidance but this takes some time to develop into a habit/instinct. Without proper planning, the pilot has very little control over the environs he finds himself, "Planning" is the most important skill any pilot learns. It's what most pilots call "staying ahead of the airplane". A very useful skill in many of lifes endeavors, BTW.
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Offline krissel

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2006, 10:48:59 PM »
Our local news covered this extensively of course being the NYC metro area. What surprised me was that they were allowed to fly such a course without contact with any control towers, especially after 9/11. It amazes me that so many of our cities and utilities are open targets for small planes.

The only good thing in the reporting besides the new regulations is that the military scrambled fighter jets all over the country when this happened.


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Offline Gregg

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 07:40:22 AM »
QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 15 2006, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What surprised me was that they were allowed to fly such a course without contact with any control towers,


As I understand it, the altitude restrictions put them out of the "sight" of the control towers. (too many buildings in the way) But they're required to fly so low in order to fly by sight. Thus, it becomes an obstacle course - too many buildings in the way...
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline Xairbusdriver

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 11:58:41 AM »
I think the only 'good' to come out of this tragedy is that it shows how little damage can be caused by these small aircraft. Of course, if it were ladeb with explosives, it could be worse. But the payload of these craft is quite limited, also. Not neraly what one could put into a normal van.
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Offline gunug

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 12:04:48 PM »
QUOTE
Gunug was prescient


I'm okay with that now that I've looked it up!  smile.gif
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Offline Parker

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 01:10:01 PM »
QUOTE
... it shows how little damage can be caused by these small aircraft


a small aircraft crashed into a building in Miami a short time after 9/11 i believe
and very little damage was done.

-----
Dad told me that the u-turn that you need to make in the East River Corridor is extremely hard, whih they have said in the paper;
however Lidle was flying with an insturctor
who should have piloted the plane through the corridor
since Lidle was not experienced enough to do so.
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Offline RobW

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 01:27:22 PM »
Last I heard, they hadn't determined who was flying the plane when the accident took place. I'm not sure if they'll ever know for sure.

Tons of coverage in Philadelphia as well. Remember that he pitched here for a few years before being traded to The Yankees at the end of July. Last spring, he did several TV interviews about his new hobby of flying, and took a camera crew up in the sky with him. They replayed those over and over last week. It was a bit strange seeing them again.
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Offline Gregg

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 08:30:00 PM »
He joins John Denver, JFK Jr., and I'm sure many other well known people who's hobby ended in fatal fashion.

The list is even longer for those who were passengers in a small plane. Payne Stewart, Roberto Clemente (not a small plane).... Sometimes it doesn't pay to be wealthy.

There's a memorial to a musician in Madison who died trying to make it in for a concert. I forget who he was. I just read the plaque in April. The plane he was in crashed in the lake.

Not sure if Thurman Munson was the pilot or a passenger.... Buddy Holly, Jim Croce I think both died in plane crashes.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 12:14:40 PM by Gregg »
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.

Offline Parker

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 10:28:47 PM »
and Harry Chapin
who died on I-495 (Long Island Expressway)

i really think the FAA should mandate black boxes in private planes too
for securty reasons
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 10:30:33 AM »
QUOTE
the FAA should mandate black boxes in private planes too
for security[sic] reasons
Uhm, that would be rather like closing the barn door after the horse(s) escape. "Black boxes" don't tell you what might happen in the future, only what did happen in the immediate past. From that info it is usually easier to determine why it happened. But for the info to be gathered, one would already have had the 'security' breach ( crash into a structure, etc. ). The how and why is rather a moot point then. "Black boxes" are not designed for any 'security' information that I'm aware of.

Private flying is already one of the most expensive "hobbies" around. These boxes and their associated sensors and wiring could easily add 25% to the cost of most light aircraft and do nothing to increase 'security'.

The basic cause of most crashes, no matter what size the aircraft, is lack of pilot 'situational awareness'. Instruments can help, but when flying under Visual Flight Rules as in this case, it is extremely important to be aware of where one is as well as where one will be in the next few seconds. That is what is meant by being 'ahead of the airplane'. The pilot cannot simply be a 'passenger', he must be in control in a four or five dimensional environment; up, down, forward, time and outside obstacles ( whether fixed [ buildings ] or moving [ other aircraft and even birds ] ).

Notice that I have not used the word "accident" yet. Most pilots know that there is no such thing. Somewhere along the chain of events that result in the 'event' there is a human fault that could have prevented the final outcome. It may go all the way back to the assumptions of the designers or as recent as some action or inaction of the pilot. But the end result is the same. That is where the "black boxes" come into play. They can usually report exactly what the pilot was doing ( and saying ) and how the aircraft was responding to those actions.

In the Lidle case, in might confirm who was at the controls, who decided to make the turn or why no one saw the building in time to avoid it. It certainly would confirm the airspeed and control positions which, in turn, might indicate any corrective actions attempted. It might even bring to light any purposeful criminal actions. But it would still be after the fact, not much help in the 'security' sense.
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Offline krissel

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2006, 01:27:53 AM »
You can add Otis Redding, Patsy Cline, Ritchie Valens, Big Bopper, Audie Murphy, Aaliyah, John Walton (WalMart), and of course, Amelia Earheart and Will Rogers to the list of small plane casualties taking well know personalities.

Not to mention many politicians (though not all in this list were small planes):

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/1...shes/index.html



Regarding Jim's explanation that virtually all crashes can be traced back to human error... I watched Nova tonight on PBS which had an investigation of the Tenerife, Canary Islands crash about 30 years ago when a Dutch KLM 747 took off without clearance and hit an American Airlines 747 still taxiing on the runway. Over 500 died due to a convergeance of events but ultimately because the pilot of the KLM (a premier experienced pilot) ignored procedure and decided to take off.
Very interesting program if you get a chance to catch it.


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Offline Gregg

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OT: RIP Cory Lidle
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2006, 07:48:27 AM »
Otis Redding, that's the guy who crashed in Lake Monona. I was hoping someone would at least provide the name, if not knowing the connection to Madison.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Cupertino can have better TV reception.