Author Topic: Everyone in Minneapolis OK??  (Read 4671 times)

Offline Paddy

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Offline Shades of Gray

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Everyone in Minneapolis OK??
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 08:37:04 PM »
That is quite the tragedy. I'm sure the death toll will increase.

I don't live there, but in June I had been at a church convention in Minneapolis and had gone over that.
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Offline RNKIII

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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 09:10:53 PM »
Went across the 35E bridge twice this afternoon whistling.gif

Right now they're saying 3 drownings so far but they still have search & rescue people in the water looking...

WHAT A MESS this will make for commuters into downtown Minneapolis from the northeast...

Cause unknown at this time... only 'light surface maintenance' going on at the time of the collapse....

But it's got barge, rail, and surface transportation tied up in that area for some time to come...


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Offline Texas Mac Man

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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 09:44:01 PM »
Cheers, Tom

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Offline Shades of Gray

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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 09:47:55 PM »
Death toll now 6. I expect it will be considerably higher as they search under the structures.
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Offline Gregg

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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 07:27:37 AM »
The reports here are all jumbled. First we heard 6 confirmed deaths, then 7, then one station reported they had information about 9 confirmed just before getting an update from the Mayor's office that 4 were confirmed, but that at least 20 vehicles were still not recovered, so at least 20 people are presumed dead, but not confirmed.

This bridge is within walking distance of my son's fraternity at the U of M. Beneath it, along the Mississippi River, are running trails. He was planning to use those trails this fall as he continues to train for a marathon. In fact, a house mate of his was on our local news. He had been one of the first citizens to come to the aid of victims. He told a story of being enlisted by paramedics to keep talking to a man he had helped once they got him on a ventilator. The man died while my son's friend was doing this, all the while saying "My legs! My legs!" He was, of course in shock. To a lesser degree, aren't we all!
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Offline gunug

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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 07:53:22 AM »
It's strange to see someplace that you've been often associated with disaster!  It will be interesting to see what happened!
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Offline kcourt

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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 09:39:19 AM »
Such a tragedy - I have gone over many large bridges in my life and usually am glad when I reach the end of them and am back on land.   sweatingbullets.gif

They said this morning that they expect to find more bodies in submerged cars.

A very sad day for friends and family.

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Offline sandbox

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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 02:53:22 PM »
The structural integrity was suspicious http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/2/11616/19006

QUOTE
The Interstate Hwy. 35W bridge that tragically collapsed into the Mississippi River Wednesday evening was one of 1,135 road spans in Minnesota rated as "structurally deficient" by the federal government.

    That’s 8.7 percent of the state’s 13,008 bridges, 20 feet or longer, that are subject to annual inspections. Another 451 spans are considered "functionally obsolete." Included in the total are 65 bridges that are more than a century old.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 02:59:49 PM by sandbox »

Offline kimmer

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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 03:06:15 PM »
I'm glad everyone here is okay. My heart breaks for the family of those who died. sad.gif

I was at CNN.com and they have video of the collapse ... but I can't get it to play. Page totally crashed Safari, and in FF all I get is the "yak-yak" and a black screen. Anyone know why this doesn't play for me? Is it a win only thingy?

Offline Xairbusdriver

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Everyone in Minneapolis OK??
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2007, 03:14:48 PM »
I doubt if those percentages are much different anywhere east of the Rockies ( just because the farther east one goes, the older everything is [notwithstanding certain left-coast TS members] ). Infrastructure maintainence seems to always be at the bottom of most government budgets. One of our two local Interstate bridges just completed an upgrade that makes it one of only a very few in the world with the newest earthquake resistant bearings ( we're in the fault zone of the largest earthquake ever recorded in the US ).

I'm just glad I don't have to justify making the risk versus needs calculations for these kinds of things. If it turns out to be a know problem, no amount of rationalization will be enough. There is simply no way to include the value of a life in those calculations, IMHO.

My prayers are with those who are suffering from injury or loss of a family member or friend. And don't forget the early responders, either. Whether they are like Gregg's son's friend or trained professionals, many could do nothing more than comfort the dying. I can't imagine how difficult that would be.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 03:15:37 PM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline Paddy

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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 04:50:26 PM »
And it's no better north of the border - witness the bridge collapse in Montreal last year.

Our infrastructure (roads, sewers, railways) is in various states of disrepair all over North America. Much of it was built in the last 100 years or so, and guess what? It doesn't last forever and you do need to maintain it! Big shock, apparently, to most of our governments. rolleyes.gif

Unfortunately, maintenance doesn't make for exciting election issues - although I suppose when things actually start falling down and people die, it might take on a bit more urgency. Let's hope so. I could go on, but I'm going to start treading in the no-go zone if I do. wink.gif
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Offline sandbox

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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 07:11:58 PM »
I have my suspicions having been one to inspect bridge material before and after building them, and one needs to look at the unusual condition present at the time.
It was being resurfaced and lanes were closed to traffic at rush hour. A 500-foot span fell into the river carrying 50 vehicles.

Paving equipment is heavy, additional aggregate is heavy; moving traffic to one side is not ideal. The bridge in its best condition could have been over-stressed, but being at 40% and 40 years old didn’t help. I suspect that in their need to maintain an operating bridge that they overlooked crucial stress boundaries for a single truss system.

Offline Paddy

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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 08:24:14 PM »
It will be interesting to see what they discover, and it may (or may not) have implications for other bridges elsewhere, particularly as so many of them are in similar states and requiring similar upgrades/maintenance.
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 10:06:46 PM »
There's a most interesting -- and scary -- article in the Washington Post regarding US Bridge safety.

A few points:
QUOTE
WASHINGTON -- More than 70,000 bridges across the country are rated structurally deficient like the span that collapsed in Minneapolis, and engineers estimate repairing them all would take at least a generation and cost more than $188 billion.

[snip]

In a separate cost estimate, the Federal Highway Administration has said addressing the backlog of needed bridge repairs would take at least $55 billion. That was five years ago, with expectations of more deficiencies to come.

[snip]

At least 73,533 of 607,363 bridges in the nation, or about 12 percent, were classified as "structurally deficient," including some built as recently as the early 1990s, according to 2006 statistics from the Federal Highway Administration.

[snip]

A bridge is typically judged structurally deficient if heavy trucks are banned from it or there are other weight restrictions, if it needs immediate work to stay open or if it is closed. In any case, such a bridge is considered in need of considerable maintenance, rehabilitation or even replacement.

[snip]

The main source of revenue for roads and bridges, the federal highway trust fund, is failing to keep up with spending demand. The 18.3 cents a gallon in federal taxes hasn't changed since 1993, and the demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles could affect fuel consumption.

[snip]

According to the Federal Highway Administration, most bridges in the U.S. Highway Bridge Inventory _ 83 percent _ are inspected every two years. About 12 percent, those in bad shape, are inspected annually, and 5 percent, those in very good shape, every four years.

[snip]

An analysis of 2006 Federal Highway Administration data found that Minnesota bridges were generally in better shape than those in other states. Only about 6 percent of the state's 20,000 bridges were listed as being structurally deficient. In Oklahoma, nearly 27 percent of bridges were cited by the federal government as being structurally deficient, the highest percentage among the states.

Among counties with more than 100 bridges, the problem appears to be most significant in the Midwest. In Nemaha County in southeastern Nebraska, about 58 percent of 194 bridges are structurally deficient. More than 55 percent of neighboring Pawnee County's 188 bridges are in the same shape. Of the 10 worst-off counties with significant numbers of bridges, seven are in Oklahoma or Nebraska.

On the other end of the scale, at least 10 counties with a significant number of bridges have none that are structurally deficient, according to the latest government statistics. A half-dozen of those are in Texas.


We drive over 2 bridges almost once a day -- and the only thing that will get over them tomorrow is the fact that both have just undergone extensive repairs. wink.gif

Gregg, my heart goes out to your son's house mate. That's a tough thing for a young man to face.