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Author Topic: Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.  (Read 4671 times)

Offline Highmac

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« on: January 18, 2008, 08:48:56 AM »
Nobody seriously hurt and airport worker says captain deserves "a medal as big as a frying pan" after plane apparently lost all electronics; undercarriage was wrecked when it hit the ground. A taxi driver complained that plane came in too low! (Typical cabbie biggrin.gif )
And from today's story
QUOTE
Passenger Jerome Ensinck said: ".... When we hit the ground, it was extremely rough, but I've had rough landings before and I thought 'This is the roughest I've had'."

Just hope it's the roughest he EVER has wink.gif
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 11:36:38 AM »
I'm waiting for more info on this. It seems impossible to me that he could have lost power more than a few miles out and still have made the airport. He actually touched down just inside the fence maybe 300 feet from the end of the runway. The space could be even less, I can't remember the exact distance, never wanting to actually use it! I do know that the east and north sides of the airport are very close to the roads around it and there is quite a bit of housing to the east, so a landing/crash in that direction would have been catastrophic, to say the least.

Even large jets can glide quite well, considering their size and weight. But it generally requires a rather high speed, much higher than what is normal on an approach to a normal landing. Therefore, he may actually have been nearer the normal 6,000 feet, in a pattern that would have taken him further from the airport while getting in line for an approach. If he was then close enough, he may have simply turned toward the airport, trying for any runway available. Whatever he did, it worked, and that's really all that matters! clap.gif salute.gif

I just hope that it doesn't turn out to be some human error. But losing both engines at the same time is very unusual...Thinking.gif
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 04:08:48 AM by Highmac »
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Offline Gregg

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 12:04:46 PM »
Neil, that was on the TV here too.

Amazing that no one was killed.
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Offline Highmac

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 12:35:53 PM »
Initial report from the AAIB says engines "failed to respond to demands for thrust", according to BBC. And the captain's statement in full. It's also on video which, on the BBC site, always seems to play better for me in "stand alone" viewer window (Firefox).
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Offline kimmer

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »
Caught this on the news and my reaction was jawdrop.gif

Any landing you walk away from is a good one!
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 03:34:33 PM »
QUOTE
Any landing you walk away from is a good one!
Are you sure you were never one of my co-pilots?! laughhard.gif

However, the not responding to "demands for thrust" is a lot different from windmilling engines. Even airborne-idle is better than nothing. Certainly not a power setting for touring the country side but mighty useful to keep electronics and hydraulics working. Even a windmilling engine will probably be too slow to keep up with those power requirements as one tries to roll down the runway and that can be disastrous when steering becomes necessary. I suspect he quickly shut the engines down as soon as he could knowing the 'flight' was over by the lack of movement! Still, the lack of apparent fuel leaks, much less tank ruptures, speaks well of the aircraft design, construction and maintenance.

Speaking of landings, does anyone know how to tell if you forgot to lower the [landing] gear? Thinking.gif
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 03:43:24 PM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline RNKIII

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 04:21:10 PM »
Wellll....  Certainly "rollout" would be somewhat abbreviated!!  and the 'dock/entrance ramp' might not be low enough...


Bob K.   rnkiii
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 04:35:56 PM »
Close, Bob, but the clue actually after the first guess and before the last one.
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Offline kimmer

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 05:53:52 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 18 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
Any landing you walk away from is a good one!
Are you sure you were never one of my co-pilots?! laughhard.gif

LOL! No, but my pop was a pilot. biggrin.gif
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Offline krissel

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 08:10:21 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 18 2008, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Speaking of landings, does anyone know how to tell if you forgot to lower the [landing] gear? Thinking.gif



I would imagine the green lights (or lack of) would be a clue. As would no increase in drag. huh.gif


Wondering if that 777 just plain ran out of gas. Thinking.gif



Or maybe someone was using their cellphone...  ohmy.gif
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 08:15:08 PM by krissel »
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Offline Gregg

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2008, 05:21:09 AM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 18 2008, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Speaking of landings, does anyone know how to tell if you forgot to lower the [landing] gear? Thinking.gif


dntknw.gif
I can usually feel the landing gear "lock in" from my seat. But up in the cockpit????
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2008, 11:46:52 AM »
QUOTE
I can usually feel the landing gear "lock in" from my seat. But up in the cockpit
There's sometimes no 'feeling' of the gear coming down/up. But in most aircraft, it would be hard to miss the extra noise of the nose gear doors being open, the nose gear being directly under the cockpit, in most designs.

And there is a considerable increase in drag. That and the increase in the flap sttings is probably when the crew noticed the lack of additional power from the engines. I would assume that they would have returned to the previous, lower flap setting, especially if they were far out on the approach. I don't know of any aircraft that could glide very far with full flaps, they really requre more power the side benefit of which is to enable a safer 'go around'. Since the power is fairly high, the engines can increase their thrust faster (jet engines are slower acelerating especially at slow rpm, than most internal combustion engines. That was one of the first things pilots had to learn when jet started to replace the old piston powered aircraft. And it's also why the airborne 'idle' rpm is higher than on the ground.

Both good guesses, but still no banana! But, to be fair, it's really a 'joke,' anyway.

One will confirm that the gear is still up because it will take excessive power to exit the runway. Groaner.gif
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 11:49:46 AM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline Gregg

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2008, 03:37:04 PM »
At that point, in this case, the easiest way to confirm that the landing gear is not in landing position is to look out the window. "It's over there, and we're over here!" tongue.gif
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 06:15:44 PM »
Not quite, Gregg, the gear will be rather difficult to see because it will still be in the wheel 'wells.' The question was how to know you forgot to lower the gear. smile.gif Of course, there are multiple warnings, bells and lights that try to prevent this kind of thing. It's usually the private pilot that does this. If it's prop plane the first confirmation is the shortening of the prop blades! oops.gif And that usually damages the engine crank rods and cams. Very expensive repairs, no matter what type of aircraft. And if it was a commercial company, there will be at least one less pilot with a usable license. nono.gif

Will be very interesting to hear where and when the engines stopped responding to the throttles. I would assume that they were being controlled by the automated system. Of course, if the pilots thought were operating that way but really weren't the first thing they should have done was firewall those throttles! I hope they did, it will all be recorded on the black (actually various colored) boxes, which I am sure are being analyzed quite closely...
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Offline Gregg

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Boeing 777 becomes a glider at Heathrow.
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 07:53:05 PM »
Jim, you're confusing me. Is it a joke, or are you semi-serious?

...if you forgot to lower the gear...

or if you "told" the gear to "lower" but it refused and didn't warn you??

If that's the distinction, your "silly" answer doesn't compute. But, "exiting the runway" assumes you're on the ground, and as I said in this case the landing gear was "over there". It had separated from the aircraft.

What am I missing? dntknw.gif
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