Thunderbird probs

[Xairbusdriver]

We awarded two DEVONAgent packages at Our December MUG meeting. It's really not intended for the average surfer, however. It is a super-powered search engine and very useful for the kinds of work Mayo obviously does.

QUOTE

Had a nice answer typed up and I closed the window.

I'm assuming you were using "Quick Reply?" I know of someone who makes the error of sometimes clicking the "Close Fast Reply" button, I won't reveal his name but his screen name is usually only three letters. Anyway, when this un-named person accidentally closes that Quick Reply box, s/he can usually get it back, with the message still intact, by using the "Back" button in the browser. When you click the "Add Reply" or the "Close Fast Reply" the sever must actually send the whole page again, so you actually have the 'reply' box in the page just behind the one you are in.

OTOH, if you are using any editor, closing the window pretty much destroys everything...that's another reason I like the "Quick Reply" method. Assuming, that is, I would ever make a mistake like that.

[RNKIII]

Why is it that each time I see Kimmer's new avatar.... Golum from Lord of the Rings flashes into my head??

[Mayo]

DEVONagent uses artificial intelligence to do its thing. It is actually relatively easy to grok how it works and customize it; right out of the box it isn't quite as useful because it is designed to be set-up to suit the individual user.

The most common complaint that I hear from people trying to master using a computer is that they are overwhelmed by all the available information on the Internet. The second most common complaint is that they cannot find what they are looking for. DEVONagent is a great tool for sifting through all the available data and finding the nuggets of info worth reading. The summaries DEVONagent creates is one of the things that really sets it apart from Google. The cyrptic, truncated results provided by Google can drive a person crazy if you really need to find something on the Internet.

DEVONagent not only downloads the search results to your computer (which Google doesn't do), but intelligently prepares summaries of all relevant pages  and suggests topical groupings of the search results. Also, it sorts out junk pages, index spam and addresses that are no longer available (the famous "Error 404"). This takes longer than a Google search but the DEVONagent results are significantly more useful. And results can be archived easily, even automatically.

DEVONagent's Boolean operators are much more powerful than what is available at online search engines, so a search is much more likely to get the desired results and can be very specific... So-called "deep" searches are also possible, during which DEVONagent follows links on a relevant page up to five levels deep.

DEVONagent is also very useful for students doing research. For example, research papers and similar educational data on the Internet are not highly rated by Google because they have few or no links from other Web sites, so search results that include these types of Web sites can be located deep in the Google list, far deeper than most people would care to navigate. A person can query multiple sources or just one, which can speed-up searches and return relevant results very quickly.

In an ongoing research project (or if a person is just really interested in a specific topic) DEVONagent can be configured to automatically search for the latest updates on individual or multiple Web sites, RSS feeds, blogs, etc. and deal with the results in a number of ways.  The automatic searches can be scheduled hourly, daily, weekly ormonthly.

DEVONagent also has a built-in Web browser.

A primary goal I have when using a computer is to avoid unnecessary frustration. DEVONagent is one of those rare pieces of software that really does make doing something easier and quicker so you can get something accomplished.

Joe Bob gives it Two Thumbs Up.

[Xairbusdriver]

I could have used it a few minutes ago, I was trying to find out who was the last mustached US President. Don't ask...
I eventually found the answer but without much help from Google. Finally conjured up "Presidents list" as the search criteria.

[kimmer]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 19 2008, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

Had a nice answer typed up and I closed the window.

I'm assuming you were using "Quick Reply?"

Yes, I was using Quick Reply, but I closed the entire web page (window to me) and left TS. I'm sure it was my evil twin that did that. After all, I'm perfect.

QUOTE(RNKIII @ Jan 19 2008, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why is it that each time I see Kimmer's new avatar.... Golum from Lord of the Rings flashes into my head??

ROFLOL!!!!!! You just made my day, precioussssssssss.

QUOTE(Mayo @ Jan 19 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DEVONagent uses artificial intelligence to do its thing. It is actually relatively easy to grok how it works and customize it; right out of the box it isn't quite as useful because it is designed to be set-up to suit the individual user.

Oh sweet ... GROK. I like that word. I read Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land back when I was 18. It was the first time I'd read anything like that without it being a school must read. I fell in love with the book. At work everyone kidded me about reading intellectual stuff. It was tough to deal with - at 18 I didn't have much self-confidence.  Anyhow, to shorten this ... a new gal comes into the office. Everyone thinks she's weird. Well, okay, she was weird; but a good weird in an eccentric way. She sees my book and starts asking me about bits and pieces of it - she'd read it the year prior. I'd found a friend! So had she. Okay. Enough.

I may have to give DEVONagent a try --  just because. I do get tired of Google returning results that are totally irrelevant to my search. And why do I keep getting these adult pages when I'm set for non-adult stuff? I really don't get that. I can use my library's web site to do some deeper searches. They have free access to tons of stuff. You just have to know how to reach their search engine and you have to know your ID and password. I've read all kinds of newspapers, magazines, articles, etc, free that way. It's pretty cool. They didn't, however, seem to know how to fix TB.

I can see where DEVONagent might be helpful as our Friends group researches grants and such.

QUOTE

A primary goal I have when using a computer is to avoid unnecessary frustration.

Same here. I'm not good with frustration.

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 19 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could have used it a few minutes ago, I was trying to find out who was the last mustached US President. Don't ask...
I eventually found the answer but without much help from Google. Finally conjured up "Presidents list" as the search criteria.

Okay, so who was the last mustached US President? Inquiring minds want to know.

[kimmer]

Using one of the links Mayo found, we deleted all the ".msf" files and so far, Sneakers TBird is working fine with no more old mail showing up.

Here's hoping this fix worked. If not, I've bookmarked all the links and we'll go to phase 2.

[sandbox]

To isolate the problem just have the server forward any email RECEIVED: from the annoying addresses to a folder on the server instead of leaving them in the Inbox for download. At days end you can check the folder on the server to see if the email is being resent.

Because they're being forwarded and not downloaded they will accumulate if in fact they're repetitive mailings. One can also look for date & time stamps. One can also look in the header for the same email being sent from different servers. (I receive, for example, two sets of email from my city, the same email from different departments at or about the same time.

In defense of Sneakers position, one…does not separate SENT mail into separate folders, why would one need to separate received mail? Searching for mail is so much easier when it's all in a single column.

If you backup regularly there shouldn't be a concern over email losses, and having it in separate folders doesn't make it more secure.  

Use the top IP Received: from host.pain_in_the_butt.com ([12.34.567.890]) in the header to set the forward. Do not use the email address or return address alone if you suspect it might be spam. You can use a combination of rules to forward the email as well.

[Mayo]

QUOTE

In defense of Sneakers position, one…does not separate SENT mail into separate folders, why would one need to separate received mail? Searching for mail is so much easier when it's all in a single column.

Welllll, I do have Eudora set up to place a copy of all sent mail in a mailbox in my "Saved Messages" folder.  But I can easily imagine circumstances where saving sent messages in specific folders would be very helpful, such as dealing with a particular business client. Or planning a family reunion. Why is it easier to have all your e-mail from different people on varying topics mixed together in a single "in" box? In the family reunion example unique mailboxes and filters would make it Oh So Simple to track incoming and outgoing messages... Did Aunt Mildred get back to us about bringing a few jugs of her latest batch of moonshine?  Did I remember to tell her to leave it in the trunk of her car because our local sheriff will be calling at the house (he has a tough reelection battle on his hands...) around the same time Auntie Mildred is due to arrive???

When I am using e-mail to arrange overseas trips I generally create a new e-mail account and filter responses to specified mailboxes.  It makes it much easier to keep track of responses from airlines, lodging, friends we plan to visit, etc.  And I can set it up so that responses that I want to see immediately automatically open on the desktop. That option came in very handy when we were in the middle of a lawsuit. E-mail from our lawyers would be automatically filtered into a mailbox set-up for mail from their firm.  When their messages required timely responses I would tweak the filter so the message would open-up on the desktop as soon as it was received. Doing so meant that I probably wouldn't miss an essential communique...

In my day-to-day e-mail usage I have separate mailboxes for each e-mail account, mailing lists and bills that arrive via e-mail. It takes only a couple of seconds to see where there is unread mail; scanning a single mailbox would take significantly longer to do.  I also have a "Response Needed" mailbox; I transfer messages to it that require a response that I don't want to deal with immediately and I usually mark them "unread" so it is readily apparent that there is a message waiting for a reply.

I don't know how you can say that searching for mail in a single column is easier. Having e-mail automatically filtered to specified mailboxes actually simplifies things, because you don't have to do much searching and you can easily choose which messages need a response and which ones can be ignored for the time being. Let's face it: some e-mail is important and a lot of it is not, so why treat both kinds of messages in the same way?  I have used Eudora for years because it has such powerful filtering and search capabilities compared to other e-mail clients. And the way the user is notified of new mail is also easily customized.

You can take control of your e-mail, or let it control you. Taking advantage of e-mail filters reduces the time and frustration associated with dealing with more than a minimal amount of messages.

[kimmer]

QUOTE

one…does not separate SENT mail into separate folders

Well, actually, I'm ... errmmm ... eccentric enough to do just that in Eudora.  

I didn't do that in Thunderbird as the filtering system isn't as strong.

The search feature isn't as easily used in TBird vs Eudora either, so I'd say that some of this depends on the capabilities of the email program one is using.

Funny: Sneakers just popped in and asked me if I still had the email he sent me with a link to this weird site and I said yeah, and then proceeded to open the mailbox where his emails are filtered and ran a quick find and gave him the info. HAHAHA! He says I'm picking on him. HAHAHA

[sandbox]

Mayo, Kim, I have Eudora and use Entourage which in some circles is the preferred client. It has as many bells and whistles as any client available today. If I put Mildred in entourage's search engine Mildred pops up dated, colors coded, separated by day, week, month and year category & project all the way back to 1997. The only thing I need to decide is approximately when she sent the email I want to read, a burden we would all share. This could be accomplished in a single file, without folders using a client search engine.

The problem with folders is that sometime you put Mildred in the Mildred folder and sometimes you put her in the Moonshine folder and when you need moonshine you have to search for Mildred, if you know what I mean.

So everyday you open mail, go to the trouble of deciding which folder it belongs in and folding it. Tic-toc …leaving it in the long file and using a search engine on that rare occasion that you need to pull it back up again ……to me is more efficient.

Understand that, at anytime, I could search for Mildred…..gather the results and build a folder containing 10 years of email from Mildred in about 30 seconds, accomplishing in a very short time what it took you a thousands decisions and actions over many year to do. That is the power of the Search Engine in an email client.

All that aside TBird probably doesn't have the option package of either of our Client, but I does have a search engine and it works for me the same way.

In any case Kim, if you isolate the annoying email on the server you can track it's activity.

[kimmer]

Honestly, it all boils down to using the email program that you prefer and sorting/not sorting according to your own preferences. There isn't a right or wrong way to handle email -- unless someone is forced to do it someone else's way.

This has really been an interesting discussion.

QUOTE(sandbox @ Jan 21 2008, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In any case Kim, if you isolate the annoying email on the server you can track it's activity.

I can't -- it's not on a server. It was a corrupted database and dumping the files and forcing TBird to rebuild things took care of the problem.

[sandbox]

Glad you fixed the problem.

[Mayo]

SB, I can't say that I agree with or even see the logic in what you are proposing, so I am going to do the graceful (and easy...) thing and just give up.  

[Xairbusdriver]

I'm not sure sandbox and the rest of you are talking about the same thing. While I would be surprised if Entourage didn't have filtering capabilities, it appears that sandbox seems to think we place emails in different folders manually. I'm sure Entourage has a great search function, but the point is that many of us don't even need to search, everything from that client or topic or subject is already in its own folder, sorted usually by date, but a quick click on the header label and it can be sorted otherwse. We don't have to make a decision on each email we get, that is what the filters are doing any time we download our messages. I keep a small window that lists all my mailboxes, when something new goes into one of them, the name gets underlined so I know there is something unread in it. That helps me because, based on what I have going to that mailbox, I may not even want to see those messages until later, don't even have to see it in any list.

We can all use the same app as many ways as possible. If it works for you, fine. If you see some techniques that might help, great! Please, lets not start complaining that we should all use an app the way we think it should be used. Well, except for URLM Pro...

I've never had anyone or any company require me to use any particular email client, and since email is supposed to be a text-based service, I can't see why anyone could/should require someone use a particular app. If a graphic is required, there is aways the attachment method. I can see why some Windows users would want others to use certain security and protective apps and certainly have all sent email through those to prevent any virus/worms/etc. from getting into ones own computer. But that task is is not normally handled by the email client, anyway.

[sandbox]

I'm not advocating one client over another, I'm just pointing out that a straight line data file is simpler than one that would be stuffed by automation or manually and then viewed in separate folders. I use Entourage because it works and it is fully integrated with the Office Program which historically is one of the only programs available to Macs that made it possible to use Apple products in a business climate.

If Sneakers wants to use a straight line data file and search engine in ThunderBird it can work just as efficiently as any custom arrangement one might devise IMO, that was the point of my defending Sneakers position, not that My Email Client is more robust than anyone else's or that everyone should grab hold of the tail in front of them.