wow! you pulled the wonky

[sandbox]

QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 28 2008, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

... but taking shots at dots and dashes kindof puts you in the same coral as the admins...

Not at all... It wasn't a "shot" directed at anyone: I find written text that lacks capitalization, punctuation, paragraph-breaks and the like difficult to read and it can often take significant effort just to comprehend it... And when it is someone posting a query desiring the good will and valuable time of others to read and answer? I just pass those posts by... I can generally tell when the person is not a native speaker (a quick check of their profile can usually verify it...) or their spell-checker was temporarily disabled and they get a "pass" from me. (There is a big difference between occasional errors and a post that is nothing but errors...)  But the Chronically Lazy who just can't be bothered to make it easier for their readers by following the generally accepted guidelines for composing a sentence? I let others deal with them... I don't think that they need to be censored or banned.

QUOTE

If you were an administrator would you score points on punctuation?

Now why do I have the feeling that this is a cheap shot fired in my direction? I imagine that anything I might write would just get me more of the same... I'm really disappointed SB. I have no problem defending my position but that isn't worthy of a response.

If this level of discourse continues this thread will be locked-up tighter than a drum in no time...

Perhaps I was wrong and we aren't capable of doing better here!

Well... actually there was suppose to be a Smiley after that point, but it makes for a good argument. I apologize for disappointing you, that wasn't my intent.

If the level of discourse offends some but not others should there be a hard-line or soft-line drawn? We can test the system with this thread, where is that mysterious line in the sandbox?

Do Smileys make a difference? Really? Why be offended by a question about punctuation? If it is important or even central to your argument, my question shouldn't offend you, but inspire you to further your argument. For example, I haven't given much thought about writing and the lack of respect one might sense when laziness is detected. I suppose if laziness in writing is a reflection of a person's character as a whole, and one doesn't like lazy people, it could be an issue to a moderator that runs on efficiency.  But wouldn't assuming that a lazy person is behind the alphabet be a long leap?

How about those who strain the language with the use of a vocabulary that is rarely seen? Is it disrespectful to make a point more complicated with the over descriptive language?

[kimmer]

QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 28 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And while Kim may want a "protector" (against what exactly in this case?)

 Okay, let me smack myself ...   .... really a poor choice of a word, and now everything is all (dare I say this?) ... catty whompus. All I meant was I wasn't here, Chris was and he wanted to try to respect my request to let the whole wonky thing drop. I don't see how we can fault him for doing what he thought was the right thing. Since I started the mess, I'm gonna go reopen the thread -- and NOT because I think Chris was wrong, because I don't. I'm gonna reopen it because I'm here and Chris isn't and maybe reopening it will help all this to die down.

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Aug 28 2008, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Texting is such a great means of communicating. All the nuances of speech; volume, tone, speed, facial cues, etc. with 26 simple characters and 10 numerals. Never a mistake. Always clear. yada, yada, yada. Ask Bloomberg about text mistakes!

ROFL! Well said.

QUOTE(sandbox @ Aug 28 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kim, there was no offense intended, and there is nothing wrong with Wonky, so Wonk-on!!

Okay ... and thanks.

QUOTE

Yes, the Mazda goes hummmmmm. And like some, that ad was very effective, stuck in my head for what, 35 years now?

Yeesh, I'd managed to forget that ad, and now it's been running through my brain all day. Most annoying.

[chriskleeman]

Great, look what I started... all in the name of trying to help out a fellow Mod...

So, guess what, moderating ain't an exact science. And Mayo, in regards to what I may or may not have been smoking... here's the deal...

I was asked by one of the Admins last fall if I would consider helping out by moderating the forum. TS has been evolving ever since I got here in 2002, and last year, the Admins were short-handed and needed some help. Up until last night, I had a pretty good track record. I love this place, I volunteer my time, as does everyone else who makes up the Administration side of things here. And two of the Admins are the hardest working women you've ever met online.

We have guidelines, a sort of "charter" which we try to interpret in regards to topics, posting, and general Forum behavior by our members.

I thought that the length of SB's post was excessive, especially in the light of Kim's request to just drop things where they were. And I also thought that it bordered close enough to one of our guidelines to temporarily lock it.

The interpretation of our guidelines is something that we discuss frequently amongst the Administrators and the Moderators. And SB, moderators in this forum do not have full Administration privileges. So, there wasn't anyone around last night when I read it, no other Mod or Admin was online, so I did what I thought was best at that moment in time.

Turns out I was wrong. So, Sandbox, I owe you an apology for taking your post the wrong way, and I would never have locked the thread had you just posted a link to all those incredible ways of saying "please" And apparently, that was your intent later on when you came back to edit the post. My bad.

And to both you and Mayo, you have both been incredible contributors to TS. Keep it up the good work! And try to play nice, boys!!!

And to you Mayo, in particular, if you have suggestions, we are all ears. My aim is to improve TS, not dumb it down. And the input of all our members can help us to make this a better place.

So, I made a judgment call, and it turns out I sucked all the fun out instead. Again, not my intent. I'm going to chalk it up as a learning experience and try to do better next time. And trust me, Kimmer doesn't need me to "protect" her!!!

Chris K

P.S. Thanks JackW for the PM!

[krissel]

Mayo, I'm sorry to hear that you feel uncomfortable with how TS is managed.  I'm sure you meant no offense to anyone and were just expressing a view that would encompass all the Utopian ideals of democracy in action.

Would that it could be so.

Sandbox more than anyone knows what happens 'behind the scenes" when there is a questionable post or thread. He speaks from many years of experience as to the difficulties of 'managing' TS and keeping that balance of free discussion void of the spam, disrespect and flaming you note is seen at other forums. It is an ongoing struggle. None of us is perfect in being able to discern without doubt what might offend or when that imperceptible line is crossed. We all have emotions and an individual history that leaves us with impressions that may tint our view of the words posted here.

Although TS may be celebrating the completion of 8 years next month that doesn't mean we are perfect. But we aren't a democracy either, rather a group of people helping each other.  Some have to be trusted to run the software, manage data and pay the bills. And yes, we do have to have a few monitors to keep watch for those barbarians at the gate. I'm sorry if anyone may have felt that they had their toes stepped on along the way. We try very hard to keep TS as open and friendly as possible.

As ABD said, "GROUP HUG!"






EDIT: Chris was posting while I was composing this.  Thanks, Chris!  

[Highmac]

Looking at the timings, I had gone to bed just before XABD's post, so here are my thoughts.

Chris has expressed what I would have said - it's not an exact science. Sometimes you look at a thread and you can see it heading towards a slippery slope and want to stop it before it becomes a car crash.
As far as I can recall I've only locked one thread, and in a similar situation as Chris - just wanted to put it on hold until a second opinion was available. I was on my own, nobody else on line to consult. I got only two PMs about it - one from a poster asking why, the other from someone thanking me for locking it so they couldn't join in and then regret it. Goes to show - you can please some of the people, etc...

Incidentally, shouldn't this be in Community?  

[Highmac]

QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 28 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...as far as I know the members have never been polled regarding how TS should be run?

Although I'm not part of admin - just a moderator - I'd be interested to see the results of any poll you care to start and I'm sure admin would take into account any good suggestions for improving the forum.

I certainly have no complaints on the way it's run (or I wouldn't be here). I take a view that the people paying the bills have a right to decide what goes on. Bit like the way a restaurant is open to the public but the owners can still impose rules - wearing a tie for example.

Please note: Opinions expressed here are solely those of the poster and are not those of the management

[dboh]

QUOTE(Mayo @ Aug 28 2008, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find written text that lacks capitalization, punctuation, paragraph-breaks and the like difficult to read and it can often take significant effort just to comprehend it...

Off topic, but you'd best stay clear of James Frey's "Bright Shiny Morning" -- 500 pages without a single paragraph indent, semicolon or em dash, and maybe 1/50th of the needed commas. I'm determined to finish this beast, but it's also interesting to see what a difference punctuation can make to story-telling.

[george]

Glad I am not Admin or a Mod, it sure looks difficult from what I am seeing and you certainly have my respect and admiration.
You are doing a grand job.
George.
   

[sandbox]

I guess we read things differently, dropping the wonky and playing with the Please's just seemed like a natural progression to me. It says the same thing to many people a different way, is all. Just like wonky, or whacked, .....name that tune.

I understand your point Chris, and I did intend to return to it and nip it in the bud when I discovered the roadblock. I used to hate PM's when i was an admin. it could be just a reflection of living in the Sunshine. The Sunshine laws in Florida do not allow officials to say anything official behind closed doors, it all has to be out in the sunshine. well that;s the law but it just gives folks the oppertunity to do as they please without explanation, but the spirit of the law seems right.

Because I have a headset on, and could be called on the phone, yes at 3am, or my old dog could call me to the door .....again.....my attention to detail gets wonky, so when time allows I usually return and edit what I was into when I was so rudely interrupted.

When I get on the phone and if it seems like the exchange will be a while, I get up and walk outside and talk at moon. When I return I have data to register so by the time I get back to TS or any postage area, I've lost my Lionel Train. I can hear the whistle but sometimes I can't see the tracks.  Sometimes i post in haste and then discover that I erred and climb back into the post to edit myself. Multitasking isn't all it's cracked up to be, but it does kill time.

As if we could kill time
without injuring eternity.
Henry D. Thoreau

[chriskleeman]

QUOTE(Highmac @ Aug 29 2008, 05:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incidentally, shouldn't this be in Community?  

The answer is probably yes. However, since I started all this ruckus, someone else can move it if they see fit! I'm going to go sit in the dog house for a little while longer!

Chris K

Who said "to err is human, to forgive is canine..."?  

[Highmac]

Don't mind where it is, really - I never had a problem with the old one-forum set-up

I was just being mischievous....  

[kimmer]

QUOTE(chriskleeman @ Aug 29 2008, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE(Highmac @ Aug 29 2008, 05:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incidentally, shouldn't this be in Community?  

The answer is probably yes. However, since I started all this ruckus, someone else can move it if they see fit! I'm going to go sit in the dog house for a little while longer!

Chris K

Who said "to err is human, to forgive is canine..."?  

Well, I've only had one cup of java, and I've had fun creating all kinds of riots this week, and it is my birthday week, and ... let's see ... well, those are good enough reasons for me ... so I'll whoosh this over to community.

[Xairbusdriver]

I hope this helps answer some of the 'operational' questions...

<Forum Access Guardian>

[kimmer]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Aug 31 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope this helps answer some of the 'operational' questions...

<Forum Access Guardian>