Author Topic: Conflicts of interest in possible DTV delay  (Read 3319 times)

Offline krissel

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Conflicts of interest in possible DTV delay
« on: January 22, 2009, 01:06:58 AM »
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090...-delay.html?bub


Nonetheless, there are hundreds of thousands who still can't get the coupons.  dry.gif


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Offline dboh

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Conflicts of interest in possible DTV delay
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 07:23:44 AM »
I've startied hearing ads on tv about how if you really want good reception, you'll need special digital antennas. What a scam this is turning out to be.

Offline Francine Eisner

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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 07:33:18 AM »
It certainly is a scam. My mother and I sent for coupons a long time ago and they sat in our desk drawers, as we were not yet ready to purchase anything. Then we dug them out and saw that they had expired. So we can't use them, and we are not permitted a re-issue. We can't apply for new ones, as the system shows we already have them. And the "system" says that no new ones can be issued to anyone at other addresses, as the grant money has run out.

So - we have contacted our legislators. Let's hope this works...!

BTW - We have done some investigation about what hardware will be necessary. The story varies a bit depending upon which electronics store you go to, but the consensus is that unless one is a cable subscriber, you need a box and rabbit ears or you need a brand-new HDTV, which isn't cheap. Frankly, unless one is an avid TV watcher (we aren't), it seems too expensive at any price.



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Offline daryl66

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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 02:24:42 PM »
QUOTE(Francine Eisner @ Jan 22 2009, 08:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


BTW - We have done some investigation about what hardware will be necessary. The story varies a bit depending upon which electronics store you go to, but the consensus is that unless one is a cable subscriber, you need a box and rabbit ears or you need a brand-new HDTV, which isn't cheap. Frankly, unless one is an avid TV watcher (we aren't), it seems too expensive at any price.



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You do NOT need an HDTV antenna.  If you can receive good analog signals with rabbit ears or your existing antenna then in all likely hood when you put the digital box on you will receive a good digital picture. This of course means you are getting your signal directly from the broadcasters transmission antenna. If you receive your signals from a transponder and the channel(s) is/are received on a channel other than the broadcast channel ie: channel 2 CBS is received on your tv as channel 13 or something other than 2, in all likely hood you will not receive that signal on the digital box as the transponder(s) have not been mandated to go digital.  I do not know what the ultimate goal is for those of us who are stuck with that scenario. At my location I get one network channel and 7 pbs channels on digital. The other three networks get to me by transponder therefore no digital signal.

Hopefully this does not just confuse the issue.

Daryl
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 04:17:29 PM »
Absolutely no "HDTV" antennae is required IF the one you have provides a clear image! My wives parents received a new HDTV as a present from their two daughters. They do have Dish, as they live at least 20 miles from any TV station, but they also use an antennae that must be at least 20 years old! That antennae picks up analog stations from well over 70 miles away. I was absolutely amazed at the high quality images they get now, from the old 'analog' antennae! Frankly, it's much better than what we get via cable on our analog sets!

The only reason I would suggest a new antennae would be if you are using one that is not bringing you a very clear picture now. But even that may be corrected by aiming it better, raising its height or avoiding signals bouncing off of buildings in your area. If your rabbit eras are giving you a fine picture, use them! You'll still need a box, of course, to get the digital image converted to an analog signal that you can watch on the analog TVs.

Another bit of info that may end up causing people to complain, especially those near the out limits of a stations coverage area, is that digital is exactly that, it's either a 1 or a 0, it's either ON or OFF. You should never get a weak/snowy picture with the digital signal. You will get either a beautiful image or a black screen perhaps showing that the signal is too weak.
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Offline daryl66

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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 06:48:50 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 22 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Another bit of info that may end up causing people to complain, especially those near the out limits of a stations coverage area, is that digital is exactly that, it's either a 1 or a 0, it's either ON or OFF. You should never get a weak/snowy picture with the digital signal. You will get either a beautiful image or a black screen perhaps showing that the signal is too weak.

WELL ALMOST ANYHOW.  When the weather gets nasty, rainy, cloudy etc. We have on occasion gotten 'Pixalated" digital pictures, when the box cannot decide weather it is a good 1 or a 0.Usually happens just before it goes either black or comes back 100 percent. Overall the digital quality is outstanding.  We have both Dish for most of the house and an analog antenna (up in the crawlspace) for the kitchen tv.

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Offline krissel

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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 12:06:34 AM »
To add to the quirky nature of the digital realm...

Sometimes being farther away from the source is a benefit to digital reception.  Since it apparently travels in more of a straight line than analog, if you are too close to several sources you will have to move the antenna to receive the various stations. Analog signals tend to bounce so you don't need to be lined up exactly to get a picture. With digital, being farther away means it would be easier to aim your antenna in the right direction and it would be OK.

This situation is one that I am experiencing with one of our PBS stations.  I can't get the digital signal (analog OK) from my house because the signal comes from a location other than the main digital stations (Empire State Building). If I aim my antenna so I get most of the stations I don't get that PBS one.  On the other hand my parents, who live 15 miles farther away from NYC, get all those digital stations and the PBS one.  No, it's not a matter of converter boxes because I've tested three different ones and the result is the same.

So being farther away is better in this case.


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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 11:20:46 AM »
You bring up another point that is further exaserbated by this new signal that I had not headr about before. And it may also affect people who simply move from one urban area to another in the same metro area. Could be even worse when living inside an area bonded by several differently located and widely spaced antennae. You are correct that the closer one lives to an area of concentrated antennae, the more likely you will be at greater than the best angle from one or more antennae. Maybe this will cause a further decline in city living?! smile.gif

In your case the "further away" would also have to be to just move more inline with both stations antennae. Moving further away but in only one certain direction will help in your situation. But even if you were to move closer to that one station but more directly toward the Empire State building, you would still not get a better signal. The problem is not the distance but the angle plus the lack of reflected signals, IMHO. And yet, moving closer to that station might help because at least some of the signal could be reflecting and be strong enough to enable reception.

So, unless you want to move (yourself or the house), a motor-controlled 'aiming' device would be suggested. Maybe even another simple antennae? smile.gif
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Offline gunug

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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 02:39:27 PM »
I've been using the Terx amplified antenna that I used before I had the HD converter box.  I tried it with the rabbit ears and nothing doing; but Lawrence is 45 miles or so from the broadcast antennas.  I'm hoping to move my antenna upstairs to see if I can pick up Topeka channels there.  I also hope that when they do the permanent changeover (whenever that is) that I'll be able to get even better signals because they might be increasing the power of the digital signals when they no longer have to support the analog.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2009, 05:28:39 PM »
gunug is a prime example of living between two sets of transmitters, each nearly 180° apart. Hopefully, that amplification will negate the slight deterioration from picking up signals from the 'back' of any antennae. As well as make up from having neither aimed directly at either of the transmitter clusters.
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And the United States = The Banana system
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Offline gunug

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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2009, 05:53:31 PM »
I was also thinking of building something like a static "fractal antenna" that would hang on the wall at the top of my stairway!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_antenna
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 05:54:15 PM by gunug »
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2009, 08:00:36 PM »
Is that "KS" the length or width of Kansas? That might be a factor, depending on the size of your stairway... Thinking.gif tease.gif
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Offline krissel

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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2009, 11:26:53 PM »
I have a remote controlled rotator for my antenna but it is in another room from where I usually park my butt.  
And I have thought about an additional antenna but I'm not climbing up on the roof at this time of year.  That's another reason why they didn't think this thing through carefully.  dry.gif

Jim, it is the angle of signal/reception that you mention which makes being farther away easier to align my parents' antenna.  They don't have the larger angle to contend with when aiming for NYC.  

No, I'm not planning on moving just to get better reception.  As with Gunug, I'm hoping the signal is stronger after they drop the analog so maybe I'll get that station at that point.  

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 11:29:48 PM by krissel »


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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 09:23:20 AM »
QUOTE
[the] remote controlled rotator for my antenna but it is in another room from where I usually park my...
But (no pun intended) blush-anim-cl.gif perhaps you could run some wires or cords to the dial/switches from one room to another and control the controller from the other room. Thinking.gif Tip: Be sure those wires/cables are above head level! Safety first! yes.gif <Detailed instructions here.>
QUOTE
an additional antenna but I'm not climbing up on the roof at this time of year. That's another reason why they didn't think this thing through carefully.
Perhaps the 'conference' was held in Hawaii, back then. Otherwise a great place for meetings! As you may recall that location was often mentioned as a location for Admin gatherings. I can only assume that the current excellent group has taken that suggestion to heart as their work has certainly improved from past experiences! clap.gif thumbup.gif I can't imagine any other reason! rofl.gif blush-anim-cl.gif

I think I understand what I meant to have had others hear about the angle thing than I wrote. wacko.gif blink.gif Thanks to your patient explanations. salute.gif
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 09:23:35 AM by Xairbusdriver »
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And the United States = The Banana system
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Offline gunug

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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 11:52:44 AM »
QUOTE
Is that "KS" the length or width of Kansas? That might be a factor, depending on the size of your stairway...

I will have to do some searching to find the "original" source of that diagram that explained what was meant by "KS."  This whole
fractal antenna thing is already in use in a lot of cell phones but no one is selling a HDTV antenna based on it yet.  I just thought
I'd have a better shot at bringing in Topeka with a larger antenna array; mounting it upstairs would possibly give me a better
angle at getting over the metal building to my west!
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computers will work all of the time!"