Author Topic: Dedicated Slide Scanner  (Read 9478 times)

Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 08:49:19 PM »
Don't you have a 'supplementary' Finder app that can search by creation dates? WOW.gif But, even the Finder can do that...
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Offline krissel

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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2009, 03:53:36 AM »
I have a Canoscan 9950f that does a pretty good job on slides.
The included film adapters let you scan transparencies and negatives, from 35mm up to 4 x 5 in. formats. You can even batch-scan up to thirty 35mm negative frames or 12 mounted slides. It also does short film strips. The latest drivers work with Leopard.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controll...p;modelid=10446

I got it primarily because it has FW and USB 2 ports so it could be used with my older Macs that at the time didn't have USB 2. Unfortunately this model is nearly impossible to find now (eBay) and has been replaced with a strictly USB 2 model that is less expensive.

http://www.officeworld.com/Worlds-Biggest-...NMCS8800F/09Q1/
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Produ...e=24-23203903-2


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Offline sandbox

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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 04:36:10 AM »
I have an epson rx500 all in one with a slide attachment that works OK for a my purposes, with optical resolution at 1200 dpi   but for professional use you might want to look into something that has optical resolution of 4800 dpi.  a compromise at a good price would be 2400 dpi but it depends on what you expect.


Offline Mayo

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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2009, 01:41:26 PM »
I'd just like to remind folks that jb originally asked for suggestions for a dedicated slide scanner, not flatbed options.

In my experience a dedicated film scanner is going to trump any flatbed scanner; the comparison between the Epson 2450 and the Coolscan IV doesn't change my opinion. The Coolscan sample looks like a "quick and dirty" scan that could be greatly improved with a little tweaking via the scanner software. Heck, it looks like they didn't even use any of the automatic correction options that can greatly simplify scanning slides that are dirty, scratched, faded, grainy or have a wide dynamic range. Using these options in the NikonScan software can save you a lot of time post-processing images in Photoshop or another image editing app:

-Scan Image Enhancer. The Scan Image Enhancer function automatically adjusts brightness and color saturation, producing images with optimal contrast.
- Digital ICE4 Advanced™. Digital ICE4 Advanced™ is an impressive suite of four image correction technologies. Digital ICE™ works with LED illumination to remove surface dust and scratches without altering image composition. Digital ROC™ automatically rebuilds and restores deteriorated color values for faithfully rendered images. Digital GEM™ reduces the effects of film grain, producing sharp, clear images without clumping or graininess. The newly added Digital DEE™ function uses exposure compensation to help reveal details that may be hidden in shadowy or highlighted portions of scenes.

I have been particularly impressed using Digital ICE. Scratches that would be a hassle and time-consuming to remove in Photoshop magically disappear. ICE also eliminates the need to clean up images during post-processing. (VueScan has similar options available in supported scanners with an infared lamp.)

The DMax of the Epson is 3.3 while the Coolscan V is 4.2. A higher density range number is better because it means more data can be captured. This is particularly important when scanning film with detail you want to retain in the shadow areas. On the other hand, scanning manufacturers tend to exaggerate the density range and film has a dynamic range of around 3.4. What does this mean? Take it with a grain of salt, I guess, and assume that the claimed dynamic range of scanners is questionable at best. But if one scanner has a higher number than another, I tend to go for the higher DMax because it is likely to be relatively better.

Scanning a 35mm slide with the Epson at 2400 DPI via USB 2.0 takes 3 minutes; using the Nikon Coolscan V at 4000 DPI takes around 30 seconds. (Using image correction in the scanner software increases the scanning time, but it is still a lot less than three minutes.) If you have a lot of slides to scan the time can quickly add-up.

The Coolscan IV is 2900 DPI resolution scanner. The Coolscan V is a true 4000 DPI scanner. Flatbed scanner resolution numbers have to be interpreted differently for a number of reasons that may be too arcane for some people, but comparing film scanner and flatbed resolutions is like comparing apples and oranges. Relatively easy to understand explanations can be found here and here.

The Epson 2450 review ends with this caveat: "However, should you want the best quality output from your transparencies you will get better quality from a dedicated film scanner, like the Nikon Coolscan IV we've mentioned earlier." Flatbed scanners do an admirable job on line art, photographic prints and even medium-format and larger transparencies. But they are not designed for scanning 35mm film with optimum results; the best one can hope for is "pretty good." Whether that is good enough depends on how you plan to use the resulting scans.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 06:16:11 PM by Mayo »

Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 04:26:06 PM »
Thanks for the link, Mayo. That text pretty well confirms my understanding of the process and why it is so difficult to get a good scan of a slide. Flat bed scanners are simply not made for this kind of task. However, I'd like to see recent, serious, reviews of these smaller, non-sheet/picture scanners. I'm sure there are some at places like DPReview and Imaging Resource, maybe even in the site Mayo linked to. Need further study and time...as well as what resukts would be "satisfactory" for me. wink.gif
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Offline Mayo

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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 05:10:40 PM »
Jim, I added another link regarding interpolated resolution. The second link is also clearer about how to interpret flatbed scanner specs vs. film scanner.

Another option to consider is using a digital camera to copy slides.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 05:27:01 PM by Mayo »

Offline Paddy

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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 09:24:54 PM »
QUOTE
Don't you have a 'supplementary' Finder app that can search by creation dates?


Er, yes - but I don't know when I made that copy, so that's not much help either! I'm sure I'll find it some day, when I'm not looking for it.

Anyway, given jb's price constraints, I think we'd come to the collective conclusion that a dedicated slide scanner was out of the ballpark - hence the further discussion of the flatbed options.

I am very interested in the camera method though, Mayo. I have a Canon A650 too (a couple of generations newer than the 620 he used) so may give that a whirl, since it doesn't require more camera equipment purchases. Tupperware, or suitable generic substitutes in all shapes and sizes - we have that! wink.gif
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Offline Mayo

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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 11:14:55 PM »
QUOTE
Er, yes - but I don't know when I made that copy, so that's not much help either! I'm sure I'll find it some day, when I'm not looking for it.


Check out iPhoto; it does a pretty decent job of keeping track of image files...  wink.gif

QUOTE
Anyway, given jb's price constraints, I think we'd come to the collective conclusion that a dedicated slide scanner was out of the ballpark - hence the further discussion of the flatbed options.

I guess that the "collective conclusion" was a too subtle for me to pick up on it...  (I've been waiting for jb to return and provide more info along the lines of how many slides he has to scan, what he intends to do with them and his absolute limit budget-wise.)

Anyway, until that happens the thread had morphed somewhat (for me at least...) into a discussion of the differences between flatbed scanners and film scanners. The information may be helpful to someone in the future who does a search and stumbles upon this thread.

I bought my Coolscan V new back in May 2004 for around $560, so I was a bit out of touch regarding current prices. I did a little Googling and it appears to be discontinued. The few new units I came across cost at least $560, if not more. (I've never heard of the stores selling them, so I have no idea whether they are legitimate outlets...)

eBay Canada has a mint Coolscan V with a current high bid of C $503.40 (US $406) with 16 bids.

The lowest recent price on completed Coolscan V auctions is US $600 and the highest appears to be US $855.

Holy Kodachrome Batman!  jawdrop.gif

 The Canadian auction is starting to look like a Really Good Deal depending on how high it goes.

If jb's requirements point toward something like a Coolscan V and he can afford the investment, I still think that buying a scanner and reselling it after his project is completed is a viable money saving option. (I've read a number of posts on scanner forums where folks either broke-even or made money when they resold the scanner.) Otherwise, it's time for Plan B. Or C.

Hmmm... I wonder how much that box in the hall closet  that contains mint-condition underground comics from the 60s-70s is worth? (I actually put each comic in an archival plastic bag many years ago. The family cat peed on my Mad Magazine and DC/Marvel comic collection when I was a kid so That Was That...)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 11:25:56 PM by Mayo »

Offline krissel

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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2009, 01:52:11 AM »
If price is the deciding factor you may want to consider using a lightbox to illuminate the slides or similar homemade setup.

Here are some links to check out:

http://cyberelk.net/tim/2007/03/04/digitiz...-slide-scanner/

http://cyberelk.net/tim/2008/11/14/clive-w...35mm-slide-rig/


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Offline sandbox

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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2009, 04:12:47 AM »
I just added my two cents about the resolution because that is what I had notice in my scans. Dedicated or not I would suggest a high+ dpi if you want quality scans regardless of brand or speed. If you don't have good software like Silverfast or Easy Photo Fix, it doesn't matter how good your scanner is. I had a scsi legal scanner when i was using OS 9 that had all the bells an bulbs, with a scan range over 19000 dpi but until I purchased quality software the scanner was not much better than average.

Offline Paddy

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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2009, 10:21:34 AM »
QUOTE
Check out iPhoto; it does a pretty decent job of keeping track of image files...


Only if you actually PUT the file IN iPhoto! wink.gif I'm actually transitioning to Lightroom, which I like a whole lot better for a whole lot of reasons. It's in a somewhat different league of course! In the mean time, things are a tad disorganized.

BTW - Nikon still makes slide scanners, but they seem to have ditched the lower end part of the line.

The CoolScan 5000 ED is a not-so-cool $1379 at Henry's here in Canada.

B&H has it for $1099. (which is about the same as Henry's when translated to CDN dollars). B&H's servers seem to have temporarily fallen over for me - so no linkies...

Has anyone come across the Pacific Image film scanners? They're a lot more reasonable and seemed to get good reviews at B&H.

http://www.scanace.com/en/product/product.php

Costco has the older ones - in the US, but not in Canada...Unfortunately the only place that is supposed to have them in Canada (according to Pacific Image's web site) in fact doesn't.

Adorama has them. Reviews are variable.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 10:22:30 AM by Paddy »
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Offline RNKIII

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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2009, 01:42:45 PM »
Either Pacific Image has done A LOT to improve their slide scanners or someone is pulling someone's leg with the reviews...

I tried 3 models at differing times of the PI scanners and they were the pits, as far as, user friendly slide feeds, noisy and very poor quality scans. Sorry, I cannot recall the model numbers right now.

As we always say at TS, YMMV....


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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2009, 02:10:14 PM »
Your links, Mayo, helped explain the vast difference between a 'standard' scanner's "eyes" as compared to that of the dedicated scanners. Plus the availability of better optics and even a larger photon receptor! Creating an "eye" big enough for a full width scanner would probably make them over the $1,000 range!

BTW, I'd be extremely skeptical of any 'consumer' scanner that claimed anything near 19,000dpi. 19,000 pixels across the 8.5 inch width of the platform, certainly, that is near the maximum now available of 2400dpi without software interpolation or combining software and specialized scanner receptors (two rows of receptors spaced one-half width diagonally from each other).

Of course, the true dpi depends on two different factors in most flat bed scanners. One is the number of photon receptors (CCD cells) across the width of the scanning mechanism. The other is the stepping motor's accuracy and size of steps it is capable of. That's pretty much limited by the mechanical precision of the motor, support system and drive train. Increasing either requires smaller sensors (with problems of accurate color/intensity/speed) or higher precision mechanics (higher costs). We may need to wait for future developments to gain much in resolution. OTOH, with better software manipulation, we might see the "perception" of higher resolution. smile.gif

With the declining market of slide film and the need to convert those slides/prints into digital data, I think the decision, for consumers, will be based on how many slides and how much does the equipment cost. While dedicated scanners are, without a doubt, much better than flat bed scanners, I doubt that anyone but a money making professional would ever buy one (certain CEP's excepted, of course!). If the slides are to be used to make multiple prints for grandma and a few other relatives, the flat bed scanner seems the best choice. After all, most of those prints probably won't last more than a few years, under normal conditions! sad.gif
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Offline Mayo

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« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2009, 02:11:27 PM »
QUOTE
BTW - Nikon still makes slide scanners, but they seem to have ditched the lower end part of the line.


Yes, the more expensive scanners appear to be available.  The Coolscan V was a good deal compared to the Coolscan 5000. The only difference is the 5000 has a couple more digital bits available and accepts accessories such as the automatic slide feeder, which happens to cost $250+ all by itself...

QUOTE
If you don't have good software like Silverfast


Silverfast costs over $200... I assume that Epson's Easy Photo Fix is included with the scanner.

I don't know of any scanner software that doesn't have some issues, including Silverfast. BTW, I have read a few reports that folks got Nikon Scan to work with Leopard on PPC Macs and possibly on Intels. I'll have to plug mine in and see what happens... Just in case I have retained a bootable clone of Tiger for just this purpose; my 2.16GHz iMac came with Tiger so I am covered even if I didn't have the G4 iBook.

QUOTE
If the slides are to be used to make multiple prints for grandma and a few other relatives, the flat bed scanner seems the best choice.


If all you want to do is make prints, then the cost-effective solution is to have prints made from the slides by a standard photo processor. Not only is it less expensive, you will probably get better quality output.

QUOTE
I'm actually transitioning to Lightroom


I'm an Aperture Man...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 04:01:51 PM by Mayo »

Offline jcarter

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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2009, 02:48:48 PM »
Here is an amazing gadget that fits on your lens for about $40 bucks, which works with the older Nikon Coolpix 990 and a few others.
It works just perfectly, you set it on your lens, get near a window, but not in direct light. And just fire away.
Then just download your pictures like normal. We were astonished at the quality, but of course that old Nikon has a great macro lens.
http://www.dcresource.com/SlideCopier/
I found it on Steves Digicam site, and bought one.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/happenstance.html
I wonder if they are still available?  I cant seem to find any now.  
Jane