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Offline beacher

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Just noticed something different . . .
« on: November 20, 2009, 03:27:22 PM »
On the other computers that I've had (G3, G4 w/2 hard drives), when I dragged something from 1 partition (or HD) to another, it actually made a copy of the old app or data to the new one.  With the G5 Quad, which has OSX 10.4.11 on one HD, and Leopard 10.5.8 on the other, when I dragged an app or a jpg from the first hard drive to the second, apparently it created an alias! When did they start doing that?  And, if I actually want to carry something over, rather than an alias, how do I accomplish it?  Sheesh. . . Just when I thought I had everything figured out Thinking.gif As usual,  thanx.gif in advance!
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Offline krissel

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 06:44:19 PM »
Somewhere along the line in X they decided that dragging  certain files (usually a drive icon or mounted dmg) from one volume to another would create an alias since they figured that was really what you wanted with such a large item. But if you really want to  copy it just hold down the Option key while dragging it and you will see a little green + show up by the cursor to tell you it is copying the item.

BTW, if you press the Command key while you let go of an item you are drag/copying, it will be moved and the original will be deleted. I don't trust this action myself. I'd rather go back and delete manually just in case the moved file somehow got corrupted in the move.
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Offline jchuzi

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 05:26:50 AM »
I have two bootable drives (clones, actually) and one drive dedicated to storage of really large files (not bootable). In addition, a fourth drive is dedicated to Time Machine. All drives are internal. Naturally, I don't manually copy anything to the TM machine drive but if I drag a file or folder from one drive to another, it is copied. No alias is produced.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2009, 12:13:02 PM »
The behavior of dragging files has not changed in OS X, at least not in Panther, Leopard or Snow Leopard.

Dragging an item, regardless of from and to anywhere, always create a real copy of the item in the new location.
If the two locations are on the same partition, the original location will not have the item any longer.
If the two locations are on different partitions, it item will actually be in both partitions.

To make an alias always requires extra keys.

To make a duplicate in a new location in a single partition always requires the option key.

Them's my facts and I'm stickin' to 'um, no matter what! tease.gif

If you are not accidentally pressing the opinion and command keys while doing this dragging, I'd suggest trying the same copying while logged in to as a different user. Thinking.gif
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Offline krissel

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 12:27:37 AM »
OK, try this:

If you have two volumes and one is your boot volume. drag its icon onto another volume icon.

Or, open a dmg and drag the dmg volume icon over another volume icon.

What happens?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 12:30:02 AM by krissel »
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 02:00:14 PM »
item: anything smaller than a volume/partition/planet/asteroid
tease.gif
You don't suppose Apple made the OS smart enough to know that 'volumes' will often be way to big to simply move? And they will have thousands of paths pointing to where they were originally and just modifying/updating them would take several days...Nah, their just the exception to my rules!

Still waiting to get a report about what happens with a different account. The behavior reported by beacher is not standard.
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Offline Paddy

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 08:12:53 PM »
Just tried a couple of different things (10.5.8, BTW)

Dragged dropped an application from one HD to another - it was copied. All 374MB.
Dragged and dropped a .dmg  - it was copied.

Trying to drag a volume (boot volume or another volume) onto another volume in the Finder doesn't work - all I can do is change the order.

All of the above were in list view, if that makes any difference.

So...not sure about your theories, there Kris, unless you did something different. wink.gif

And certainly Beacher's experience is NOT the norm.
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Offline krissel

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 08:44:13 PM »
ON the desktop:  Drag and drop the opened icon from a dmg (not the dmg itself) and you will get an alias. In fact all you have to do is hold the icon while dragging over the other icon and you will see the curved arrow appear to indicate that indeed it is going to create an alias.

I can't take a screen shot of the action because holding down the Command key will make it copy like the Option key. I tried using the timed feature of SnapNDrag but the little arrow (or plus sign) won't show in the shot.

Apple assumes you don't want to copy these things but rather create an alias. Yes, dragging a single jpeg from one volume to another should make a copy but the blanket statements about never getting an alias aren't true.

smile.gif
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 08:46:34 PM by krissel »
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Offline Paddy

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 08:01:32 AM »
OK - have now tried the drag and drop of the .dmg icon again on the desktop and yes, it does create an alias. The reason it doesn't work in list view (I must have dragged an unopened .dmg!) is that the .dmg files do NOT show up in list view once they're open, which I wasn't aware of, having never tried to install anything from list view! Learn something new every day. tongue.gif

As for the .jpg creating an alias when dragged and dropped to a new volume, though - that's just weird and definitely not what is supposed to happen. Same with any drag and drop installations of applications.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 09:48:30 AM »
A ".dmg" once opened is a "Volume." See my definition of "item." I rest my case, book and argument. Groaner.gif However, are you saying that the actual ".dmg" file that was created/downloaded will not transfer? Thinking.gif

QUOTE
As for the .jpg creating an alias when dragged and dropped to a new volume, though - that's just weird and definitely not what is supposed to happen. Same with any drag and drop installations of applications.
The one I created and dragged to another volume simply pointed back to the original file, which is all an alias is supposed to do, correct? dntknw.gif And it does have the little curved arrow. Now, the two views I looked at were Column and Icon. Let me look at List and see if there is a difference...
...nope, same alias icon. But I don't think that had anything to do with the "weirdness."

I suspect our/my problem is attempting to use "logic" in determining what will "always" happen! Apple, in their wisdom, doesn't "always" do everything "logically!" I still remember objections to dragging an Volume/disk to the trash to eject it and yet not actually destroying it! laughhard.gif

Some of these 'quirks' are labeled Easter Eggs. Some are just downright confusing, like different reactions when clicking an icon on a Finder window that is not active, depending on whether the window is in Icon or List/Column view... rolleyes.gif
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 09:55:47 AM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline Paddy

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 01:25:18 PM »
QUOTE
However, are you saying that the actual ".dmg" file that was created/downloaded will not transfer?


Nope - that worked fine, as I noted.

Jim, your post above quotes my bit about the .jpg and then says:
QUOTE
The one I created and dragged to another volume simply pointed back to the original file, which is all an alias is supposed to do, correct?


Are you saying that dragging and dropping a .jpg from one volume to another created an ALIAS??? Because that's not what happens for me, nor is it what Beacher expected (hence his post) so that's why I referred to it as "weird."

Methinks we need some clarification here!! (Further clarification/correction two posts down... 2 and 3 should be switched)

To reiterate:

1. Dragging and dropping a .jpg from one volume to the other creates a COPY
2. Dragging and dropping a .dmg file (unopened) from the desktop to another volume creates an ALIAS
3. Dragging and dropping an opened .dmg file from the desktop to another volume creates a COPY
4. Dragging and dropping an application from one volume to another creates a COPY
5. Dragging and dropping one volume on the desktop to another volume on the desktop creates an ALIAS. You can't do it in list view (the Finder just tries to change the order of the volumes, seeing it as an attempt to move them, not copy them, apparently)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 03:56:04 PM by Paddy »
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Offline jchuzi

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 02:36:40 PM »
QUOTE
Dragging and dropping a .dmg file (unopened) from the desktop to another volume creates an ALIAS
Not for me. This COPIES the unopened .dmg file.
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Offline Paddy

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 03:54:32 PM »
Figures - in trying to clarify things, I managed to muddle them. (was in a hurry...that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! wink.gif)

CORRECTION:

2. Dragging and dropping a .dmg file (unopened) from the desktop to another volume creates a COPY
3. Dragging and dropping an opened .dmg file from the desktop to another volume creates an ALIAS

Beacher - have you tried restarting and seeing if the situation persists? Repairing permissions? Logging on as a different user? Is this occurring EVERY time you try to copy an application or .jpg? How about other types of files like .doc or .rtf or .html for instance?
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 05:23:24 PM »
Sorry for not making my quote and comments clearer. Not that it really matters now. The quotation that I was using is where you said, I thought, "As for the .jpg creating an alias when dragged and dropped to a new volume, though - that's just weird..." That is actually what beacher reported and I forgot that's where the event occurred, I mistakenly thought you were reporting that event as happening to you. I think that point is moot now, anyway. "He said, she said, he..." laughhard.gif

But your rules agree with everything that I have said, including the "opened dmg" to an alias transfer.

There seem to be only two rules.
1. Dragging any item (including an alias) except a volume to any other volume creates a copy of that item on the new volume.
2. Dragging a volume (which is what an opened .dmg is, as far as I know) to any other volume creates an alias of that volume.

That's as simple as my simple mind can make it. And it agrees with your remark that what was happening to beacher was not correct. I really think we're saying the same thing. At least I hope so! dntknw.gif The problem is my enability to express myself clearly.

Meanwhile, beacher, seems satisfied to have started this thread and is happily moving on! rofl.gif nono.gif
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 09:30:25 PM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Just noticed something different . . .
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 08:20:12 PM »
Whoa! I didn't know this! But I think it is/was standard in Windows(?)

Yet another way to make a copy of a file, at least in the same volume even in another volume! eek2.gif Volume copying excepted, of course...

1. Single click on an item in a Finder window (Icon, List, Column, Cover Flow (really just a modified List View, anyway), horizontal, vertical, diagonal, you name it!).
2. Press command-c (the standard Copy command).
3. Select any volume/folder/Desktop anywhere you can find it in a Finder window.
4. Press command-v (standard Paste command).
You just made of copy of the original item in the new location! No holding the mouse button down with the chance that you might accidentally release it somewhere other than where you wanted to. No need to have two Finder windows open. It just works!

Just read this 'tip' in <MacWorld: Five unexpected uses of Copy and Paste>.
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THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:
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