Anyone here using a Java-based app?

[Xairbusdriver]

Of course, who knows when the "future" will arrive? I started using MoneyDance early this year as a replacement for Quicken. It's more than a little different than that old app, but it uses Java to maintain cross-platform compatibility. I probably don't have another Java-based app, but this kind of attitude seems to be more and more irritating...

Maybe by the time Java is dropped, I won't have any money left, anyway!

[gunug]

Microsoft did a little dance about using Sun Java and not "their" Java and in the early XP years things stopped working until a "patch" came out.  I think that Java is an advantage at times and a disadvantage at other times but it would be a "shame" if it was thrown out entirely along with hundreds of Java programmers!

[Paddy]

YIKES. Really BAD move, Apple.

I use Jalbum (a lot!) and this would be a serious loss for me.

[kimmer]

I think this will also knock OpenOffice and NeoOffice out as well.

[Paddy]

Open Office doesn't require Java unless you want database integration or some accessibility features/wizards (it will run without it):

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/J..._OpenOffice.org

NeoOffice, on the other hand, appears to use more of it in order to achieve the Aqua look and feel:

http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/NeoOffice_and_Aqua

[tacit]

Apple has said that they will no longer maintain the Java virtual machine for OS X.

However, that's nothing unusual. Java is owned by Oracle. No operating system maker currently maintains Java, except for Apple. On every other type of platform--Linux, Windows, Solaris, BSD, you name it--Oracle, not the operating system maker, is responsible for maintaining Java. Apple was unique in the computer world for a long time in that Apple was the only operating system vendor that made its own Java. (Microsoft used to do this too, but they stopped five years ago.)

So all Apple is doing is saying "OS X will now be exactly like every other operating system: it will be Oracle's job, not ours, to maintain Java."

[krissel]

Apple also is not going to offer Flash on new machines nor will they include updates in their OS security downloads.  It will be up to the consumer to keep up with any updates. Basically they are dropping their involvement in supporting third party architecture like JAVA and Flash.  This is in keeping with the new policy of strictly updating and being responsible for their own code.  MS has always done this.

[Xairbusdriver]

So, the Mac is now at the mercy of Oracle (Sun) to make the supporting code? Do they do that for every version of Linux? Apple has maintained their own version of Java, but none too quickly. So, waiting on Oracle may not be too much worse...

It used to be other computer makers who said the Mac/Apple was dead. I'm not sure that his Steveness hasn't had the same idea. 33% of the revenue may be coming from Macs but I'm willing to bet that percentage is smaller every year, if not every quarter. But, I suppose all good things must end sometime...

[tacit]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Oct 24 2010, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, the Mac is now at the mercy of Oracle (Sun) to make the supporting code? Do they do that for every version of Linux?

Yep, and yep. Oracle/Sun is respnsible for the JVMs used by Windows, BSD, all the various Linuxes, and so on.

Apple was the only player on the general operating system street that was rolling their own JVM. Now, they've decided that keeping a team of programmers working on Java instead of putting them on other projects is a waste of their time and resources. Seems reasonable to me, especially when you consider that it meant Apple was always a step behind on their Java version (they'd wait for Sun to publish a new spec, then they'd port that new spec to OS X; meanwhile, Sun was shipping newer versions for Windows and Linux and whatnot ahead of Apple).

Microsoft realized the folly of doing it themselves in 2005 and exited the JVM game. Now Apple's doing the same. Seems pretty reasonable to me, really.

[Xairbusdriver]

I've read that Apple was the only one still doing these ports, and that they weren't very speedy, either. Hopefully, they will do these ports in alphabetical order?

Ya think Mr. Ellison might still have a "soft spot" for Apple?

BTW, do you know how the licensing of Java is handled? Every OS charged the same? Based on number of machines running the OS? Phase of the moon(s) of Pluto?

[Paddy]

So, is there any indication from Sun/Oracle that they'll pick up the JVM for Apple?

[kimmer]

QUOTE(krissel @ Oct 24 2010, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apple also is not going to offer Flash on new machines nor will they include updates in their OS security downloads.  It will be up to the consumer to keep up with any updates.

Okay, I can understand the reasons behind this, but one of the things I've always liked about using AppleOS was not having to remember to visit a bazillion websites to download updates. I watch the folks in the local computer club (we go to the meetings for the fellowship and for the giggles) ... and then spend HOURS every week handling all this stuff; and when they mess up, or when one clashes with another their whole computer winds up hosed. Are we now headed that way? Because that's the way it seems to me. But I could be all wrong.

[krissel]

Well, if you are a true believer in his Steveness, the Apple community won't be needing all those third party plug-ins, just follow the mantra of our leader and all will be fine.  

[tacit]

QUOTE(kimmer @ Oct 27 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I can understand the reasons behind this, but one of the things I've always liked about using AppleOS was not having to remember to visit a bazillion websites to download updates.

But that's kind of the problem. You DO have to do that.

Apple used to include Flash and Java with OS X. Now, they've opted not to do either, in part because the lead time between when a Mac OS X CD is released and when the next version of OS X comes out makes it inevitable that some people will end up with old versions.

Flash, Adobe Reader, and Java are now the three most common attack vectors for online crime gangs. There's a prototype version of the Windows Koobface virus that's written entirely in Java in circulation; the original Koobface virus can only infect Windows, but the Java version can infect Macs, Windows, and Linux.

Shipping an outdated, flawed version of Java or Flash with a Mac is no longer a safe thing to do. The fact that Mac users don't think about going to Web sites to download updates (when was the last time you updated your version of Flash?) means that if someone uses an Apple-supplied version and gets pwn3d, Apple's the one who will take the heat for it.

[gunug]

I have some sort of endless update loop going for Flash on my desktop iMAC right now.  I'm hoping it's got something to do with our internet service being marginal today.  We'll see!

Apparently the clouds will soon be running JAVA:

QUOTE

Eurotech’s Everyware Software Framework (ESF) is one solution designed to address the management and support of large collections of networked embedded devices. ESF (see “Developers Can Expect To See Everyware Everywhere”) is built on the Java-based OSGi framework (see “Open Services Initiative: OSGi Links Devices And Clients”) and Message Queue Telemetry Transport (MQTT), a lightweight publish/subscribe system.

Eurotech now links ESF with cloud-based services provided by Isidorey (see the figure). ESF devices can deliver information to cloud-based databases that in turn provide links to enterprise applications such as SalesForce.com, SAS, Google, and even Facebook.


http://electronicdesign.com/print/embedded...-Runs-Java.aspx

So if you want to keep up with the other pilots you'll have to jump into the JAVA cloud!